What Does Ahmadi-nejad's Re-election Mean to US?

Simply put, it means we had better get off dead center in the Palestinian problem.

On the Iranian Election. If the vote count is accurate - and some talking heads are suggesting it is not - then it is obvious the US has no idea what is going on inside Iran. That is a very bad state of affairs especially when America is tolerating extreme bellicose threats against Iran from its joined-at-the-hip ally, Israel.

We have already done the numbers on the IDF’s F15 and F16 planes as to range and load carrying capacity. Neither plane can fly to Iran and back non-stop carrying anything but jet fuel in external tanks. Putting an A-Bomb onboard would probably add a minimum of 1,000 pounds weight and lower the plane’s mpg - mils per gallon - due to added air resistance. Unless the IDF can find an Arab jihadist, blindfold him, convince him the plane is on autopilot to the Green Zone, can they expect to find a pilot for a one-way trip.

Suppose there was one flight of 3 F15s and one of 3 F16s. One plane in each flight carrying a nuclear weapon and the other two planes serve as decoy or cover. After dropping their bombs in Iran, the most favorable destination for the planes would be the deep southeastern corner of Turkey. The IDF would try a re-run of their successful rescue at Entebbe Airport in July, 1976. (And hope to avoid America’s own Desert One disaster of April, 1980).

There the Kurds are strong and maybe the PKK could lend a hand? (PKK transliterates as “Working People’s Party”). Perhaps the Mossad would have transported 6 bags of 1,000 gold Rands each, to be handed over to the PKK for each of the 6 aircrew rescued. Two IDF C130s would have arrived at a safe site just a few minutes before the Iran Bomb Mission planes arrived. Those planes would either crash land or the air crew would bail out.

In-flight re-fueling by USAF KC10s would not be a smart idea for us. You can be sure that would unite the Shia and Sunni Muslims like no other misdeed we have ever done. The Great Satan as America is portrayed by the Supreme Leader, the current Ayatollah Ali Khamenei would reverberate throughout the Arab world and beyond. The 4,000+ KIA under Bush/Cheney in Iraq would see an equal number added to our death toll as we hasten to evacuate Iraq under extreme duress.

The Afghans and Pakistani would be united and working together expel the NATO forces including the US out of Afghan. Osama bin Laden would become Prime Minister of Pakistan. The West would be in a spot it cannot get out of without a lot of casualties.

The US would probably drop 10 nuclear bombs on Pakistan, which would inspire the 200 million Indonesian Muslims to wage a JIHAD against all of America’s allies and what we euphemistically call our INTERESTS. Which is to say corporate America’s interests, our unelected imperialist arm.

Don IMO you certainly are the wrong track . Even if Israel was to attack Iran's nuclear program there is no reason why they couldn't use existing or some newly developed convention weapon. Anybody would think that before the advent of Nuclear Weapons that there was no way of destroying a fortified target . Besides its the lunatic North Korean regime that poses the biggest risk right now and needs to be taken out .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to post by xpert11

Don IMO you certainly are the wrong track . Even if Israel was to attack Iran's nuclear program there is no reason why they couldn't use existing or some newly developed convention weapon. Anybody would think that before the advent of Nuclear Weapons that there was no way of destroying a fortified target . Besides its the lunatic North Korean regime that poses the biggest risk right now and needs to be taken out . Cheers xpert11 .

1) I just finished the book, “Masters of the Air: America’s Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany” by Donald L. Miller, 2006. (At 28,000 KIA, the 8th AF sustained the largest number of fatal casualties suffered by any American force in WW2). The British developed the largest aerial bomb in that war, an 8 ton “block-buster” which proved no better at bringing Germany to its knees than the American favorite, the 500 pounders.

When a post-war survey revealed the much ballyhooed and top secret Norden bombsight was not much more accurate than using a hand-held spyglass, the report was promptly classified TOP SECRET. Only 10% of iron bombs were likely to hit within 100 yards of the intended target, the standard for accuracy back then. In the event of a downed plane, bombardiers were encouraged to destroy the bombsight over saving their own lives.

We claim the Cheyenne Mountain Redoubt (in Colorado) where the headquarters of NORAD are sited, are atom bomb proof! If we can do that - 50 years ago - then surely the Iranians could do it too. NORAD - North American Air Defense Command, jointly staffed by US and Canadian AF personnel.

58 million Red state Americans are generally “bomb happy” and believe we can settle any dispute with BOMBS. The only reason the Cheney/Bush/Rumsfeld triple threat did not bomb Iran on their watch is their botched reputations their false WMD claims they had made in justification of invading Iraq in violation of international law left them with little political capital.

Iran’s strategic location at the Persian Gulf Straits of Hormuz give them a CHOKE HOLD on the West. I predict NO bombs will fall on Iran either from the US or from Israel.

2) I’m not so sure about NK’s capabilities. History has shown us several trillion dollars too late that the old Soviet Union was about 30% reality and 70% CIA hyperbole. Our normal counter voice to CIA exaggerations - the Defense Department or Pentagon as we call it - found it completely in their interest NOT to debate publicly with the CIA’s wild estimates.

Our largest intelligence agency, staff-wise, is the NSA - National Security Agency - which is the electronic monitor of the world. It is not their job to “estimate” the real or potential threats other nations pose to what we call US “interests” (an euphemism).

All of which is to say that we may be the victims of EXCESSIVE intelligence estimates of North Korea’s capability. Knowing at least to some extent the INFRASTRUCTURE behind our own nuclear and rocket programs, it seems near to impossible to me that a backward poor nation can work in the same fields as rich and technologically advanced countries can. As to the 2 nuclear explosions, we have also heard that there was no tell-tale trace of radioactive dust or other by-products of nuclear explosions. It has been suggested by some up here that both were just piles of TNT or other explosives set off deep in abandoned coal mines.

Of the NK rockets, we know they have not been successful in any effort they have made. Up here we are endlessly obsessed with a (first strike) anti missile defense system - the Reagan legacy - and I still say its impossible to hit an incoming bullet moving at 25,000 mph with another bullet outgoing the opposite way - at 25,000 mph! Only in DoD computer models do they succeed. In short, it is my considered opinion that North Korea is a REAL paper tiger!

[edit on 7/25/2009 by donwhite]

It means years and years more of our politicians tripping up over his name.



It's funny how the propaganda patrol paints a nation in a bad light and people get all upset about it and swallow the tripe without investigating for themselves.

reply to post by whatukno


Agreed, Mr w/u/k, on “stuck” with fantasies so popular no politican can be elected in America if he denounces the Star Wars concept as bogus.

My Q. On North Korea is this: What do they want that we will not give them? (Which seems to me likely to be cheaper than what we are doing now!)

PS. I love abbreviations, but I admit you’ve got me on this one! Please tell me what HPD&MC stands for.

I think the Israeli use of nukes on Iran would be political as well as military suicide.I believe their weapons were and still are doomsday options to take their enemies to death with them in case Israel is to be over run.From what i understand these preparations were underway during the 1973 war befor the tide turned in Israels favor.

Originally posted by AgentX09

I think the Israeli use of nukes on Iran would be political as well as military suicide. I believe their weapons were and still are doomsday options to take their enemies to death with them in case Israel is to be over run. From what I understand these preparations were underway during the 1973 war before the tide turned in Israel’s favor.

I have also read/heard that, Mr X9. Supposedly during the Yom Kippur War (1973) the Israeli PM warned the President of Egypt (my personal hero Anwar Sadat) that if the very existence of Israel was threatened by the Egyptians, they would “blow up the Aswan dam” which rush of water from Lake Nasser might kill as many as ½ of the Egyptians downstream, say 50,000,000. Note: It was Eisenhower’s unexpected withdrawal in 1954 of Truman’s promised American aid to Egypt to build the high dam, that gave the Soviets their opening into the Middle East. Domestic politics drove that ill-considered decision that has cost Americans hundreds of billions of dollars over the decades.

[edit on 7/26/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


Bingo you have cottoned on to the fact that where there is a will to destroy a target there is always a way . The famous Dambusters raid is proof of this . Don I have to keep things short in order to stay on topic .

Concerning Iran the question is what will come first internal reforms or any possible threat from its Nuclear program ?
As I have said elsewhere I rate the failure to win the war in Afghanistan as a greater threat then Irans Nuclear program . Now onto North Korea well the end of the road has been reached the fact that North Korea now has nukes leaves out the option , of the long - medium term goal of bringing down the regime via a sea and air blockade . Plus the US has no political capital with China and Russia that could be used to pressure them to cut off aid to North Korea .

As for those who doubt that North Korea has nukes if someone from they perceive as being a part of the establishment said the Earth was round they would disagree and dig up stories from crack pot websites to support there case .

reply to post by xpert11

Bingo you have cottoned on to the fact that where there is a will to destroy a target there is always a way. The famous Dambusters raid is proof of this.

I have the impression the Iranians have built underground work places for their uranium enriching plant(s). That is why I equated Iran’s facilities to Colorado’s Cheyenne Mountain redoubt which is impervious to atomic bombs, or so we are told.

On March 18, 2003, the opening day of the Iraq War, we dropped specially made bombs that would penetrate upwards of 100 feet before detonating. Those bombs worked - on a parking garage in this instance - but the Hussein‘s were not there. It turned out there was no underground shelter as we had been mislead to believe by Saddam’s counterintelligence service.

Now onto North Korea well the end of the road has been reached the fact that North Korea now has nukes leaves out the option, of the long - medium term goal of bringing down the regime via a sea and air blockade. Plus the US has no political capital with China and Russia that could be used to pressure them to cut off aid to North Korea.

Of all the unlikely countries on the Earth to go nuclear, surely NK is at the top of a very short list. If they have - gone nuclear - then this is proof positive that any country can make nuclear bombs. That being said, then I keep coming back to my question: What is it North Korea wants that we will not give them?

Pres. Clinton had agreed to furnish 2 light water power plants and enough oil to keep them in electric power until those went on line, about 10 years out. George Bush broke that promise and I am not sure if he ever gave a reason.

The only country that can infiltrate North Korea with “boots on the ground” is South Korea and they are not talking. I expect NK is No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 on SK's THREE most important things to do. China is essential to the survival of both the NK people - for food - and the NK government - for protection from the US. As a counter to the long out-dated US and Taiwan irritant to China, the PRC is certainly not going out of its way to help the US achieve its (mysterious) policy towards NK, whatever it is.

As for Russia, as long as we continue to cause trouble with Ukraine and Georgia (and other CFSs) with that NATO thing - say threat - and not very secretly causing the recent Georgia Mini-War, we surely cannot expect any help from the RF.

What effect would a blockade of the poorest country in East Asia have on it? It would actually serve the NK regime more than it would harm the regime.

Just 6 months in, we have just about squandered our golden opportunity to CHANGE our policy towards NK and Iran. Domestic politics will not let us do that. Red state types love a war, any war, and there are enough CLOSE states that we cannot do what needs to be done in Israel, Iran or North Korea, not to mention Somalia, Sudan and Nigeria.

I hope Congress has learned it is so easy to get into a mess, but it is so hard to get out of one. I liken this dilemma to the old slave story, “Tar Baby” in which Br’er Rabbit is caught. The US being Br’er Rabbit.

NK Factoid: 22.6 million people and 46,000 sq miles. GDP per person $1,700. From CIA World Factbook. www.cia.gov...

[edit on 7/27/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


OK I will give you my take . You don't seem to grasp the fact that the North Korean regime is certifiable . The recent history that you pointed out only proves that even after they are given a way to save face we end up back at square one only worse off . Nothing that could be given to North Korea would make any difference what so ever . An air and sea blockade along with cutting off all aid to North Korea would have ensured that the military that keeps the regime in power would have starved along with the rest of the population . The North Korean regime is being kept in power by its well feed army .

IMO Iran is a completely differnt story . Iranian nationalists the younger ones in particular have woken up to the fact that they have been used by a bunch of religious fruit cakes to maintain that country Islamic regime .

reply to post by xpert11

You don't seem to grasp the fact that the North Korean regime is certifiable. The recent history that you pointed out only proves that even after they are given a way to save face we end up back at square one only worse off. Nothing that could be given to North Korea would make any difference whatsoever. An air and sea blockade along with cutting off all aid to North Korea would have ensured that the military that keeps the regime in power would have starved along with the rest of the population. The North Korean regime is being kept in power by its well feed army.

I do not mean to be quarrelsome. I’m merely thinking that In KY which is about the same population as NZ - 4.2 million - I’d estimate the 45,000 employees of the state government are supervised by 700-1,500 people who exercise some degree of authority. Our president of the US has 3-4,000 appointments to make to help him “run” the 3 million civilian and military employees of the government. It is very likely Nixon was a mental case; most of us think Bush was more like Palin - incompetent - than any recent occupant of the office. Yet in both cases government goes on. NK is probably no worse off leader-wise than Zimbabwe, Sudan, Somalia or Myanmar.

Apparently the NK want: 1) A peace treaty with the US; 2) Withdrawal of US Armed Forces away from the DMZ; 3) For construction to start ASAP on the 2 light water nuclear plants; 4) That we begin at once to send 150% of the daily refined oil products needed by NK; 5) That we furnish food stocks so the daily calorie content of the NK diet can be raised to 2,500-3,000. 6) That we deposit $100 million to the NK credit account for its use in the US. Gleaning this from past reports, I believe that is what they want. For us, it would be the cheapest deal we’ve made in a long time.

For our part, we’d want the IAEA permitted free travel back in NK. We’d want NK to begin serious talks with SK to ultimately remove the DMZ and allow easy ingress and egress for people on both sides of the line. We’d also want to see NK’s army down-sized but that is more between NK and SK then it is for us to get into.

IMO Iran is a completely different story. Iranian nationalists the younger ones in particular have woken up to the fact that they have been used by a bunch of religious fruit cakes to maintain that country Islamic regime.

On this we can fully agree.


[edit on 7/29/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
I do not mean to be quarrelsome. I’m merely thinking that In KY which is about the same population as NZ - 4.2 million

Don you need to come out here and see how well your comparison stacks up .

NK is probably no worse off leader-wise than Zimbabwe, Sudan, Somalia or Myanmar.

North Korea is rightly considered the most repressive regime in the world . North Korea is the only country in the world that doesnt have the internet and there is no shortage of concentration camps either .

Apparently the NK want:

Now remember that actions speak louder then any words.

A peace treaty with the US

Now if they wanted such a thing North Korea wouldn't have violated past agreements .

Withdrawal of US Armed Forces away from the DMZ

Maybe since the Korean War just about all the incidents along the border between the two Korea's that have involved some kind of shot out have been instigated by North Korea .

For construction to start ASAP on the 2 light water nuclear plants

What for we have been down this road before and at best our current problems were only delayed for a while . North Korea already gets aid in the form of oil from China and or Russia . The North Korean regime is far more likely to be counterfeiting US dollars then it would ever make an investment in its people . Here is an article worth reading that shows the nature of the regime .

allow easy ingress and egress for people on both sides of the line.

The rail link that opened between North and South Korea was a step in the right direction until the North put a stop to train services .

We’d also want to see NK’s army down-sized

North Korea has gone from needing its army to meet its own paranoid delusions to remaining in power . Iran will is heading the same direction . Iran is unlikely to face an invasion from Afghanistan or Iraq and so the Iranian Republican Guard or its equivalent will be doing what it can to keep the current regime in power .

reply to post by xpert11

North Korea is rightly considered the most repressive regime in the world. North Korea is the only country in the world that doesn’t have the internet and there is no shortage of concentration camps either.

Apparently the NK want: A peace treaty with the US

Remember that actions speak louder then any words. If they wanted such a thing North Korea wouldn't have violated past agreements.

Most repressive? I do admit they’re repressive to enough to qualify on any list!

But as you may have read today, Bill Clinton has OPENED the way to renewed talks with P’yongyang. It is widely expected there will be real progress on those talks and soon the 2 American (of Korean extraction) news persons will be released.