The coming of Antichrist - all bad??

I have just seen an interesting feature on The History Channel about The Antichrist, The Rapture, Armaggeddon and so forth.
In other words the end of the world as we know it.

And then it struck me. Why not try and listen to what it says? Really listen with an open mind.
And I did.

So The Antichrist is coming. He will seem like a nice bloke. He will promise us world peace. He will advocate one worldwide government (NWO?). He will have an enormous amount of followers. He will have the support of a great religious leader who will persuade people to follow him.

And here is the crux.
Jesus will return as a great warrior to fight him and strike down The Antichrist. And there will be huge numbers of dead and it will all end in a mighty battle at Armaggeddon.

So what is said is more or less this:

If anyone tries to bring about world peace he is evil and must be fought.

The good guys (Christians) will fight and essentially create this very destructive war. Remember that The Antichrist will have huge numbers of followers - in other words - non-christians believe he is doing the right thing.

So all these loving and kind Christians will fight against The Antichrist and The False Prophet because they (edit: AC and FP) want world peace.
(What was it they wrote in this book of theirs? Hmmm. Oh yes: "You shall not kill" and "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also")
This should not be taking litterally of course, - not like the rest of the Bible (except certain parts which can freely be interpretated because we are talking parrables)

I am of course only interpreting what is written. Perhaps this particular feature about Antichrist shouldn't be taken litterally. Perhaps it is only the Proper Christian interpretations that are valid and OK.

You owe it to yourself to read at least some of the "proper" interpretations. Something written by people who know what they are on about. At least more than I am.

This dude for instance The Rev. Barry Gritters

I just wonder.
Sometimes I think that The Rapture will happen and afterwards the rest of the world WILL live in peace.

By the way - the number of my name is 666 if you spell it in Bushman dialect from the northern Kalahari desert.



[edit on 13.6.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

Under any normal circumstances you almost make sense, except for one thing.(That’s if you believe in the Bible of course) The bible says this “man” who brings about peace is “satin himself” trying to get the people of the world to worship him.

Sure he’s making peace! But he’s been given the power to do this. But its not because he really wants peace he wants you the “mis-guided “ to follow him and bow down to him and call him god. Then he brings about the Mark of the beast (O.K lets not argue what this really means) His mark, that says you are his follower. And not a follower of the real God.

Now because "some" world church leaders approve that he is God many will be lost and Christians will rebel (The Great Rebellion). Christian will then be hunted and persecuted.

And it shall be, that even the elect will be deceived .if that were at all possible.

Originally posted by SharkBait
***snip***
Sure he’s making peace! But he’s been given the power to do this. But its not because he really wants peace he wants you the “mis-guided “ to follow him and bow down to him and call him god.

Then he brings about the Mark of the beast (O.K lets not argue what this really means) His mark, that says you are his follower. And not a follower of the real God.
***snip***

So correct me if I'm wrong:

This peaceloving and benevolent Antichrist makes peace with the power he is given. And he wants us to call him God. And we get the mark of the beast.

On the other hand we have this cruel God which allows (despite His powers) war, murder, rape, child abuse and what ever else you care to mention. He also wants us to worship him. And we should carry and worship an idol (Crucifix)

Hmmm.

i laughed out loud at the thread title. there's a spec of brilliance in that and some truth to the tale you're spinning.

i've wondered similar things about THA MAN, satan hiself.

after all what has he really done wrong? he tempted jesus, taunted god into torturing job, and appeared as a huge dragon that gets promptly killed.

this is probably a short list, i don't know. i haven't studied the bible or anything so maybe there are many more "sins" committed by this ultra villan satan. this is what i could remember.

oh, he told eve to eat some fruit too. big no no there.

all in all, for the prince of darkness his resume is a lot better looking than the one on high. our benevolent yaweh.

Originally posted by HolgerTheDane

Originally posted by SharkBait
***snip***
Sure he’s making peace! But he’s been given the power to do this. But its not because he really wants peace he wants you the “mis-guided “ to follow him and bow down to him and call him god.

Then he brings about the Mark of the beast (O.K lets not argue what this really means) His mark, that says you are his follower. And not a follower of the real God.
***snip***

So correct me if I'm wrong:

This peaceloving and benevolent Antichrist makes peace with the power he is given. And he wants us to call him God. And we get the mark of the beast.

On the other hand we have this cruel God which allows (despite His powers) war, murder, rape, child abuse and what ever else you care to mention. He also wants us to worship him. And we should carry and worship an idol (Crucifix)

Hmmm.

You're missing one very important piece: accepting the mark will doom you to Hell forever. And the Antichrist knows this. That's not a very benevolent thing to do.

God is not cruel, He is loving. God can't stop the war, murder rape, child abuse, etc. because sin has been running rampant since the times of Adam and Eve and people have free will.

You don't have to carry and worship an idol to be a Christian. People carry around crucifixes because they want to; it's not required.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Moodle
***snip (satan)***

oh, he told eve to eat some fruit too. big no no there.

Well that is a lie as well.
In Genesis (which we must assume is one of the earliest texts in the Bible it never mentioned that the snake should be satan.

Although the identity of the Serpent as Satan is made explicit in the Christian Book of Revelation,[15] in Genesis the Serpent is merely portrayed as a deceptive creature or trickster, promoting as good what God had directly forbidden, and particularly cunning in its deception

The hebrew bible says something like:

In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise of forbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. The serpent is identified with wisdom: "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made"

reply to post by HolgerTheDane


I try and look at this whole good and evil subject a little like your mother and father.
both love you in their own way and try to do what is best for you, unfortunately both kinds of love can seem to have bad side effects.

God denies you what you want in order to not ruin your appetite amd this gives you what you need in the end and not what you want now.
the devil gives you what you want now and unfortunately it will ruin your appetite.

evil is relative. i personally believe that there is no good vs. bad like the bible would have you to believe.

Originally posted by Totakeke
You're missing one very important piece: accepting the mark will doom you to Hell forever. And the Antichrist knows this. That's not a very benevolent thing to do.

A bit about Hell

God is not cruel, He is loving.

How many people did He kill because they didn't worship Him?
Sodom and Gomorrah - anyone?
The Flood?
To mention but a few.

He tossed Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden because they now knew good and evil (like Him). Why was that a problem?

God can't stop the war, murder rape, child abuse, etc. because sin has been running rampant since the times of Adam and Eve and people have free will.

God might have given us free will, but He created us in His image.

Original Sin and Free Will - HA!
"You can't get good fruit from a bad tree". CRAP. I have an apple tree with pretty good apples - it is however not well with rot and decease.

You don't have to carry and worship an idol to be a Christian. People carry around crucifixes because they want to; it's not required.

I know - but in the Ten Commandments - you know those where you aren't supposed to kill and stuff - it is expressly forbidden to worship idols.


[edit on 13.6.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

while satan may not be the serpent from the garden of eve, there's no real reason to deny him this. he's severly lacking in the evil deeds department and i'm sure he'd really appreciate any support he can get.

Originally posted by munkey66
reply to post by HolgerTheDane

 

I try and look at this whole good and evil subject a little like your mother and father.
both love you in their own way and try to do what is best for you, unfortunately both kinds of love can seem to have bad side effects.

Clearly you haven't met them

God denies you what you want in order to not ruin your appetite amd this gives you what you need in the end and not what you want now.
the devil gives you what you want now and unfortunately it will ruin your appetite.

So this good and benevolent God person denies me something..?

I'll let you in on a secret.
I do not believe in GOD and if there was a GOD I would despise HIM.

My wife's aunt was devout and a very religious person who gave her life to help others and who never asked for anything back. She was the kindest person I have ever known and STILL your God allowed her a painful, cruel and very humillating death.

God does not interfere in our daily lives, He has given us the freedom of choice. So the mess you looking at is cause by Satin and Sin. The very person that will show himself in Human form when the time is right.

The way I see it, if you die in the current world and have not accepted Jesus Christ as lord and savior you are bashed from Gods Presence forever. (Christian view).Now the time is coming when all the pain and suffering you talking about will go away-That’s when Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom on earth for 1000 years but before that the events described in the Book of Daniel regarding end time are all done to test the People of earth. But people will Curse God and accept this man who sets himself up and says he’s God.

This is Satin’s last stand before he gets locked up for 1000 years ,so he cannot do all these bad things you mentioned on earth and build up his souls in Hell. So his last chance for souls is to deceive people, to accept him as God and take upon his mark. If you take the mark you will automatically receive the Plagues of God that will be brought Upon the earth and with the mark you cannot enter into the Heaven.

Now there’s a lot of debate as to what the Mark is- I still say its Micro Chip that will be used as a means of Identification and Money. I.D/Passport/ Bank and credit card/Medical records/Gun licenses etc. Think about these few things I’ve mentioned-Now try live in this world without them.

…For no-one will be able to buy and sell without the mark….

What an easy way to single out the Christians and close down the Church in its current form.- If you want to close down Churches take their money away.-That’s Satins plan, its not rocket science, its simple economics. Money-Food- Place to live.

A few things you cannot do if you have no money-
>Cannot rent or pay a Mortgage
>Cannot pay Electric or Gas Bills
>Cannot pay local taxes if you home is paid off.
>Cannot buy gas or Food.
>You can’t work as you’ll need to show your Chip!
>Can’t catch Public transport-Busses-Trains-Planes.
>No phone
>No internet

Sounds like Cave man Chronicles to me. 3 ½ years of this…




[edit on 13-6-2009 by SharkBait]

Your point is very interesting and I have had some questions regarding the violent climax between the righteous and wicked in the final days. Christians are taught to turn the other cheek and forgive their enemies. However, since the anti christ is said to be the Devil himself in human from; forgiveness toward him is futile because he will never change or get better.

Satan is the total opposite of God and his role in the world is to destroy His creation and to turn the planet into an abomination. Satan is an abomination and must be destroyed christian morality doesn't apply to him. I guess as God said to his children when dealing with evil and wicked ways of man, He said; "See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves."Matthew 10:16

Jake you on the money-Most of the things mentioned as to how we should act and treat others are very difficult to do but are not Impossible.

Its really the Ultimate way of treating others that have wronged you!

Originally posted by Jakes51
***snip***
Christians are taught to turn the other cheek and forgive their enemies. However, since the anti christ is said to be the Devil himself in human from; forgiveness toward him is futile because he will never change or get better.
***snip***

The reason for forgiving your enemies were not because they should change.

What if you forgive your enemy and he continues to do you wrong? When is it ok to finally retaliate?

In the book of Matthew Peter asks Jesus the same thing. Peter asks, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Peter thought that forgiving someone seven times was pretty generous but Jesus replied by saying, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven."

Jesus doesn't literally mean that somebody gets exactly 490 chances for forgiveness, and then you stop. What Jesus is trying to say is that you give them how ever many chances it takes.

In other words - you should indeed forgive even Satan.

No to forgive your enemies is more to your own benefit than your enemies. The bible goes on to say ....Forgive those that have wronged you as you Father in Heaven has forgiven you of your sins. So you too must forgive and not hold things against someone else.

Originally posted by Totakeke
***snip***

God can't stop the war, murder rape, child abuse, etc.

***snip***

So which is it?
Is he all powerful which means that YES he can stop war, rape etc.

or is he not all powerful which makes him NOT God

or can he but won't which makes him cruel

Originally posted by SharkBait
God does not interfere in our daily lives, He has given us the freedom of choice. So the mess you looking at is cause by Satin and Sin. The very person that will show himself in Human form when the time is right.

The way I see it, if you die in the current world and have not accepted Jesus Christ as lord and savior you are bashed from Gods Presence forever. (Christian view).Now the time is coming when all the pain and suffering you talking about will go away-That’s when Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom on earth for 1000 years but before that the events described in the Book of Daniel regarding end time are all done to test the People of earth. But people will Curse God and accept this man who sets himself up and says he’s God.

This is Satin’s last stand before he gets locked up for 1000 years ,so he cannot do all these bad things you mentioned on earth and build up his souls in Hell. So his last chance for souls is to deceive people, to accept him as God and take upon his mark. If you take the mark you will automatically receive the Plagues of God that will be brought Upon the earth and with the mark you cannot enter into the Heaven.

Now there’s a lot of debate as to what the Mark is- I still say its Micro Chip that will be used as a means of Identification and Money. I.D/Passport/ Bank and credit card/Medical records/Gun licenses etc. Think about these few things I’ve mentioned-Now try live in this world without them.

…For no-one will be able to buy and sell without the mark….

What an easy way to single out the Christians and close down the Church in its current form.- If you want to close down Churches take their money away.-That’s Satins plan, its not rocket science, its simple economics. Money-Food- Place to live.

A few things you cannot do if you have no money-
>Cannot rent or pay a Mortgage
>Cannot pay Electric or Gas Bills
>Cannot pay local taxes if you home is paid off.
>Cannot buy gas or Food.
>You can’t work as you’ll need to show your Chip!
>Can’t catch Public transport-Busses-Trains-Planes.
>No phone
>No internet

Sounds like Cave man Chronicles to me. 3 ½ years of this…




[edit on 13-6-2009 by SharkBait]

You got it figured out the Devil is priming mankind to think that all the things mentioned above are important; paying taxes, food and gas, commerce, phone, television, internet, and the list goes on.

So for the Devil to win he has to take all that away from people because he knows how people of this age and ages before idolize materialistic things. In a sense people worship their material things and feel they are not human without them. As I write, I feel the Devil is priming man to phase in the mark when the anti-christ enters the world scene. You see it everyday on the television, from politicians, and the list goes on, that it is imperative that you have the things listed above. Everyone struggles to attain those things and that is what they are, just things; at the expense of their souls.

To me the mark or RFID chip is like a brand for cattle. In a sense when people accept the Devil he is claiming ownership of your immortal soul like a rancher does with a head of cattle. It is a legal binding contract between you and the Devil; therefore, God can no longer forgive you. I'll end with a little scripture in terms of materialistic things which the Devil will take away from man for his refusal to take the mark. "And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."Luke 4:4

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Jakes51]

In other words - you should indeed forgive even Satan.

Correct. Provided that he had done something wrong, that is.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane


He is able to do it, but cannot as his word is above all things- His word says that we have the right of Choice. and he has laid out a plan for us. This is his word, if he goes against his word and interfere's with our daily world as you so wish God to do then he's Breaking his word which he cannot do as God is all perfect and unable to do that.

So the plan is laid- You choose Life or death. Life meaning Eternal life with god or death eternal Seperation from God.

We all have many Questions-me too but we have to put some of those aside and do what we have to do to get by.