Are Laser & Kinetic Weapons Closer Than We Think?

Here is a link to a web page I found on DTIC, discussing Directed and Kinetic Energy Systems Technology. It sounds to me like this is something already operational, it just hasn't been released to the public yet.

My guess is that it is only used for Special Purpose operations, low profile, careful not to allow public display.

Anyone else have insight into this matter?

www.dtic.mil...


Mr. M

Wow, the participation is amazing... I should post more stuff like this.


Mr. M

I'm pretty sure you have visited this post on DEW's...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

as far as some of this technology already being fielded, there is of course sonic crowd dispersion, active denial (milimeter-microwave) crowd dispersion, 15 kw range lasers for land mine clearing, and the list goes on.
These systems are very close to deployment or may already be seeing limited duty in Iraq.

The ABL is also ahead of schedule, and the holy grail of DoD lasers, the 100 kw solid state laser is developing at a rapid pace... will probably see field test as soon as some cooling issues are rectified...

By the end of the decade you can expect much of this to be common on the battle field, with the exception of the particle beams mentioned in the article.

No, sorry, but I can't say I ever saw that thread. Good stuff, though. As far as the operational capability of these weapons, though... That's where I'm concerned.


Mr. M

Originally posted by intelgurl
I'm pretty sure you have visited this post on DEW's...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

as far as some of this technology already being fielded, there is of course sonic crowd dispersion, active denial (milimeter-microwave) crowd dispersion, 15 kw range lasers for land mine clearing, and the list goes on.
These systems are very close to deployment or may already be seeing limited duty in Iraq.

The ABL is also ahead of schedule, and the holy grail of DoD lasers, the 100 kw solid state laser is developing at a rapid pace... will probably see field test as soon as some cooling issues are rectified...

By the end of the decade you can expect much of this to be common on the battle field, with the exception of the particle beams mentioned in the article.

I heard ABL has some problems with $. Is this true?

I dont think Lazer guns will be anything special but i imagine Rail/Coil guns will be the new thing, i mean hand held units the size of regular pistols are being made to fire at around 30m/s and these things are built in peoples sheds, Proper lab Technology is probably twice as good, so who knows what Top Secret Military hardware is like.

Maybe in 10-50 years we will see handguns with the power of a .50 rifle, imagine how dangerous it will be when the projectile can travel and half the speed of light and travel through 3 walls...and its only the size of a regular bullet.

Its a scary thought and its becoming possible everyday, I mean railguns are not even efficient yet ive heard about 0.01% and ive heard comparitively most handguns are about 75%+ so imagine when railguns start to get to around the 75% mark its probably possible to be able to sniper somebody on the moon from earth and the projectile might only take about 10 secconds to get there..

The Israelis and Americans have blown up missiles and artillery shells with lasers already. So it won't be long once they solve the power problems.

As for kinetic energy weapons, we've had those for awhile now.

Originally posted by intelgurl
I'm pretty sure you have visited this post on DEW's...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

as far as some of this technology already being fielded, there is of course sonic crowd dispersion, active denial (milimeter-microwave) crowd dispersion, 15 kw range lasers for land mine clearing, and the list goes on.
These systems are very close to deployment or may already be seeing limited duty in Iraq.

The ABL is also ahead of schedule, and the holy grail of DoD lasers, the 100 kw solid state laser is developing at a rapid pace... will probably see field test as soon as some cooling issues are rectified...

By the end of the decade you can expect much of this to be common on the battle field, with the exception of the particle beams mentioned in the article.

I dont think so. I'm sure most of these weapons, like lasers are hoax, mounted by the US governement to let people think they will remain military superiors for decades.

Laser, instead of state, like micro-waves, have the particularity to be matter selectives.
For example, some laser can only be used on metallic targets and wont do anything on organic matter. Some other are made for organic matter but have no effects on minerals...

Imagine how it would be if you need to have many differents lasers types addapted to the many differents targets types.

And, also, there is a problem of cost that will empeache armies (and even US army) to be equipied with these weapons until the end of the decade. To create you need some very expensives element, like diamonds, mirrors to concentrate light in a laser.

IG, I will take the advantage of age I have on you (something like 10 years more). I can tell you that military researches projects on laser since 20 or 30 years never have gave anything, in exception of hight missile guidance.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber - 1995 (China)
Outfit DEC "Dazzler" - 1982 (Great britain)


for the list...

Originally posted by ppp
ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber - 1995 (China)
Outfit DEC "Dazzler" - 1982 (Great britain)


for the list...

Never heard about that...

Oh yeah, the Chinese have a laser mounted on the Type 90 that confuses seeker heads and screws optics up.

They are definitly not a hoax.

A hoax?
Come on now... you can't be serious...

You probably think the earth is flat too...

Hoax? Lasers are HOAX? People you should watch these two small videos:

MTHEL shooting down Katyushas
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

MTHEL shooting down artilery rounds
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

Any comments?

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS

Originally posted by intelgurl
I'm pretty sure you have visited this post on DEW's...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

as far as some of this technology already being fielded, there is of course sonic crowd dispersion, active denial (milimeter-microwave) crowd dispersion, 15 kw range lasers for land mine clearing, and the list goes on.
These systems are very close to deployment or may already be seeing limited duty in Iraq.

The ABL is also ahead of schedule, and the holy grail of DoD lasers, the 100 kw solid state laser is developing at a rapid pace... will probably see field test as soon as some cooling issues are rectified...

By the end of the decade you can expect much of this to be common on the battle field, with the exception of the particle beams mentioned in the article.

I dont think so. I'm sure most of these weapons, like lasers are hoax, mounted by the US governement to let people think they will remain military superiors for decades.

Laser, instead of state, like micro-waves, have the particularity to be matter selectives.
For example, some laser can only be used on metallic targets and wont do anything on organic matter. Some other are made for organic matter but have no effects on minerals...

Imagine how it would be if you need to have many differents lasers types addapted to the many differents targets types.

And, also, there is a problem of cost that will empeache armies (and even US army) to be equipied with these weapons until the end of the decade. To create you need some very expensives element, like diamonds, mirrors to concentrate light in a laser.

IG, I will take the advantage of age I have on you (something like 10 years more). I can tell you that military researches projects on laser since 20 or 30 years never have gave anything, in exception of hight missile guidance.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

You are wrong - very very wrong. Lasers are a REALITY - they exist and are being tested as we speak. There are PUBLICLY KNOWN lasers and plans to add them to aircraft such as the JSF.

BTW - Intelgurl is in a position to know about these type of things. Are you?

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
I dont think so. I'm sure most of these weapons, like lasers are hoax, mounted by the US governement to let people think they will remain military superiors for decades.

Laser, instead of state, like micro-waves, have the particularity to be matter selectives.
For example, some laser can only be used on metallic targets and wont do anything on organic matter. Some other are made for organic matter but have no effects on minerals...

Imagine how it would be if you need to have many differents lasers types addapted to the many differents targets types.

And, also, there is a problem of cost that will empeache armies (and even US army) to be equipied with these weapons until the end of the decade. To create you need some very expensives element, like diamonds, mirrors to concentrate light in a laser.

IG, I will take the advantage of age I have on you (something like 10 years more). I can tell you that military researches projects on laser since 20 or 30 years never have gave anything, in exception of hight missile guidance.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Ok... Lasers.... A US Military Hoax???
How about other countries?

In 1986 the French began an air defense project called "LATEX" (Laser Associe' A une Tourelle Experimentale), consisting of a laser designed to intercept a target flying at 300 meters per second at a range of 2 km.
Likewise and very similar the German defense ministry had the "HELIX" project, another air defense laser project to be used to shoot down aircraft and missiles.
The Russians, the Chinese, the British, the Israelis and yes, the Americans all have been working on laser weapons for decades.
The ABL onboard a 747 is due for preliminary airborne tests later this year if I'm not mistakened. It is based on very similar technology as the MTHEL which has been successful in shooting down 25 Katyusha rockets.



Fantasy?
Conspiracy of disinformation?

No.

Just go to your local college or university and watch the college professor light a cigarette on a low watt laser in mere seconds then multiply that power by about 10,000 times and you start to see where military research currently is. That's not just the US's military but the afore mentioned countries as well.

I am not sure where you came up with the information that you need different types of lasers to apply to organic targets as opposed to inorganic targets... it's a focused heat source that burns a hole in an object... period.
Also, you no longer need diamonds, rubies etc to generate a laser beam... for 5 US dollars you can buy a single diode, solid state laser that operates off of a AA battery, they are used for screen pointers at meetings, seminars, etc. and can be purchased at any office supply store.
Weapons grade solid state lasers operate similarly - only with more power and better optics.

I also fail to see what age has to do with qualifications, certifications and experience in the field.

In a recent U2U I explained to you that I do not work on DEW's and that is true, but that does not mean that my work does not have me intimately involved with associated technologies or that I am ignorant regarding such technologies.

Weaponized lasers are not a hoax.
They are happening right now, not just from the US military but from a variety of nations that see the future value and can afford to research and develop such systems.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by intelgurl]

Originally posted by longbow
Hoax? Lasers are HOAX? People you should watch these two small videos:

MTHEL shooting down Katyushas
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

MTHEL shooting down artilery rounds
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

Any comments?

These videos let me very skeptical to these. They really look like fake : When the rocket are launch, and when the laser start to lock them, it's day, but when the laser enlight, it's in a dark night (I've watched closely 5 or 6 times, and I'm sure of what I say). Altought, when the rockets explodes, it's day !..


I dont know how many gigawatts you need for a laser of this diameter, but you dont have any idea of how many energy you need to.


For Latex, it's another thing, LATEX work like a "firestarter", it make the missile's targeted charge explode by causing a temp elevation of the head of the rocket. It's the same principle for planes, but localised at the kerosen tank. So, these laser (LATEX, HELIX) are not considers are as DEW's.

I'm still skeptical, but you misunderstood me : I know that in the DEW's weapons class, some weapons are still existing, but I think some DEW's US pretend to devellop aren't technically or tactically usable, functionable or simply are too expensives to be produced in mass, to equip an army, or need a too big infrastructure to be usa on a battle field ground.

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS

Originally posted by longbow
Hoax? Lasers are HOAX? People you should watch these two small videos:

MTHEL shooting down Katyushas
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

MTHEL shooting down artilery rounds
www.st.northropgrumman.com...

Any comments?

These videos let me very skeptical to these. They really look like fake : When the rocket are launch, and when the laser start to lock them, it's day, but when the laser enlight, it's in a dark night (I've watched closely 5 or 6 times, and I'm sure of what I say). Altought, when the rockets explodes, it's day !..


I dont know how many gigawatts you need for a laser of this diameter, but you dont have any idea of how many energy you need to.


For Latex, it's another thing, LATEX work like a "firestarter", it make the missile's targeted charge explode by causing a temp elevation of the head of the rocket. It's the same principle for planes, but localised at the kerosen tank. So, these laser (LATEX, HELIX) are not considers are as DEW's.

I'm still skeptical, but you misunderstood me : I know that in the DEW's weapons class, some weapons are still existing, but I think some DEW's US pretend to devellop aren't technically or tactically usable, functionable or simply are too expensives to be produced in mass, to equip an army, or need a too big infrastructure to be usa on a battle field ground.

Those videos are not fake. I've seen also a longer ones (on TV not on the web).
This is not night but some kind of IR or UV vision so the people watching the video, can see the laser beam (witch is normally invisible to human eye).

About the posibility of laser use. 25kw ZEUS laser is currently being used to clear the minefields. There is also some video of ZEUS laser on the web somewhere. The B-52 will be(or already is ) upgraded in close future with 25kw laser on tail. The JSF laser is not available today (they claim it will be around 2011-2012) but it will have 100kw - it is not much above 25kw.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by longbow]

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by longbow]

I know that about ZEUS, and another ICBM defense system based on LASER's. It's not new.

Did you know that the very first military application of the LASER find it source from the ancient greek mathematician "ARCHIMEDES" :


The story takes place in the coastal city of Syracuse on the southeastern shore of Sicily, an island located across the Messina Straits from the southwestern coast of Italy. During the year 213 bc�2,217 years ago�Syracuse was the home of Archimedes. He was in his 75th year and after spending many years in Greece had returned to Syracuse for his retirement. Marcus Claudius Marcellus, the Roman commander, began attacking Syracuse during the second Punic War with a fleet of over 50 quinqueremes, vessels that were propelled by five banks of oars and filled with soldiers armed with all kinds of devices to overcome the city walls. Hiero, king of Syracuse, asked Archimedes to design a defense for the city. Attack after attack was successfully repelled, largely through the use of the mechanical engines engineered by Archimedes to hurl stones and other objects against the attackers. Marcellus demanded surrender; otherwise he promised to burn the entire city and execute all the people�Roman style. Fortunately for Syracuse, Archimedes had a secret weapon up his sleeve.

The geographical location of Syracuse led Marcellus to attack by sea from the east. He also chose to attack at daybreak so the sun would be at his back and in the eyes of the Syracuse defenders, hindering them from detecting and tracking his fleet. However, this geographical orientation also proved advantageous to Archimedes since the fleet�s approach would be at a well-defined, small angle from the position of the sun. Archimedes conceived of a defense that employed mirrors to reflect and focus the sunlight on the Roman ships as they approached the island. The energy�s flux�reflected and focused sunlight�was sufficient to set the ships� tarred-fir planks on fire. In their first recorded use, relay mirrors destroyed Marcellus�s fleet.

scienceworld.wolfram.com...


[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
I know that about ZEUS, and another ICBM defense system based on LASER's. It's not new.

Did you know that the very first military application of the LASER find it source from the ancient greek mathematician "ARCHIMEDES" :


The story takes place in the coastal city of Syracuse on the southeastern shore of Sicily, an island located across the Messina Straits from the southwestern coast of Italy. During the year 213 bc�2,217 years ago�Syracuse was the home of Archimedes. He was in his 75th year and after spending many years in Greece had returned to Syracuse for his retirement. Marcus Claudius Marcellus, the Roman commander, began attacking Syracuse during the second Punic War with a fleet of over 50 quinqueremes, vessels that were propelled by five banks of oars and filled with soldiers armed with all kinds of devices to overcome the city walls. Hiero, king of Syracuse, asked Archimedes to design a defense for the city. Attack after attack was successfully repelled, largely through the use of the mechanical engines engineered by Archimedes to hurl stones and other objects against the attackers. Marcellus demanded surrender; otherwise he promised to burn the entire city and execute all the people�Roman style. Fortunately for Syracuse, Archimedes had a secret weapon up his sleeve.

The geographical location of Syracuse led Marcellus to attack by sea from the east. He also chose to attack at daybreak so the sun would be at his back and in the eyes of the Syracuse defenders, hindering them from detecting and tracking his fleet. However, this geographical orientation also proved advantageous to Archimedes since the fleet�s approach would be at a well-defined, small angle from the position of the sun. Archimedes conceived of a defense that employed mirrors to reflect and focus the sunlight on the Roman ships as they approached the island. The energy�s flux�reflected and focused sunlight�was sufficient to set the ships� tarred-fir planks on fire. In their first recorded use, relay mirrors destroyed Marcellus�s fleet.

This is interesting but some people don't believe the Archimedes really used lasers to set the ships into fire during Syracuse siege. They think it was just added to the history books by some later historicans. Polybius and other historicans living in 3rd-2nd century BC didn't wrote anything about lasers just about the mechanical war machines.

I can't believe this is really an issue.

Laser weapons a hoax?

That is harder to believe than lasers being weapons.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Mo0se]