911 Truth - Somebody Please Give It To Me!

reply to post by Redpillblues


If I have done anything to stir the pot please point it out and I will correct it. My only goal is to find the truth, sir.

I thought it was one large commercial plane per tower, but I could be wrong. His point was that he had not factored in the weight nor the burning of a full load of jet fuel.

You have done nothing wrong. Enter into all journeys with an open mind but not so open your brain falls out. Spend some time on the link I gave you and get back with me,if you want real answers uncover them for yourself and listen to the little voices in your mind that urge you,never disobey them or you will fail.

reply to post by nickoli


Can you supply me with more links. I am having trouble with most of the videos on the link you gave me.

reply to post by grapesofraft


www.federaljack.com...
There are many many links availabe,as I said I'm not huge on 9/11 truth movement per se, I've made my mind up and I'm living with it. There is more to the story as far as I'm conscerned,the day I realized that was the darkest day of my life. And I've had a very very hard life.

[edit on 6/11/09 by nickoli]

reply to post by WwUdNoW


I overlooked this post and am glad I re-read it,spot on. There are so many reasons why and WHO stood to gain and GAIN they did. What about the prior report that called for a "Pearl Harbor type event in order to get the people behind going into the middle east,can someone give us a link to that report? Thats about all I need, I mean come on man how much evidence does one need?
Lets look at what it takes to solve a crime. Question ONE= Who benefits from this?
Crime solved.

[edit on 6/11/09 by nickoli]

reply to post by grapesofraft

TRUTH is not individual. Something is either TRUTH or it is mere speculation.

No, I don't see your point, because in this instance truth is nothing but individual. Only each individual person can decide what they believe based on the evidence that is out there. We can agree that there is evidence, but it's impossible for every human being to reach the same conclusion until the actual truth is exposed.

reply to post by grapesofraft


FWIW, grapes.

Since we live in the 21st century we are destined to be faced with these sorts of conflicting opinions, theories and (sometimes) outright fabrications that swirl around very quickly now, because of the Internet.

Just to prove a point, just look at how much time and energy was wasted (??) on the AF447 crash. Right here, at ATS, there were dozens of 'theories' and 'opinions' virtually immediately when the news broke. You see, it wasn't just a "plane crash", it HAD to have been a conspiracy!!! Everything from intentional assassination, to aliens, to magnetic anomalies and Solar Flares!!! Again, it is the viral nature of the Internet.

Now, as to 9/11, I can only speak from experience regarding the aspect of hijacking airplanes, and flying them on suicide missions into buildings, even with minimal training. YES, it can be done. I won't waste time here, explaining, because it's been done before, numerous times. AND, we have seen, tragically, time and time again that Muslim extremists are very willing to commit suicide when attacking a 'target'.

Certainly, no one will argue with that???

About buildings collapsing? You will have to draw your own conclusions. Frankly, that day, I was hoping that they would stand. I was thinking of A) the forensics of investigating the scene, to include recovery of the Flight Recorder and CVR, and B) wishing not to lose the iconic landmark of the Twin Towers.

When they collapsed, I was disappointed, and saddened. BUT I saw nothing unusual, on TV. I saw it nearly live....I think I was on NBC, so the Today Show talking heads were blabbering on, and the live feed showed the first collapse on the screen behind them.

It was only later, as it sank in, that I realized the horror of the people trapped above the burning floors. AND, those that chose to jump....

edit: Arrrgh! Hit the wrong key!

Wanting to add....I'll end this, now, by stating I am certainly no fan of Bush/Cheney. In fact, I'd even say I hate both of them. BUT, there is just no way I can accept anyone in, or associated with, the US Government, who are that evil and callous as to have perpetrated such an immense and heinous scheme!! Certainly, IF there was a desire to run a "False Flag" Op to stir a reason for the Iraq invasion, I can sit here and come up with at least a half-dozen scenarios other than the 9/11 events.

Well...good luck with your search.

[edit on 6/11/0909 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by CameronFox
Truthers have not figured out who, why, or how it was done.

That would be why we're calling for a new investigation. To find out the "who". We don't have all the answers and neither do you.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
What proof is there that this building was rigged with explosives before 911?

The plumes of ejected dust/debris are proof:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6dab83d90c0f.jpg[/atsimg]

These plumes have only ever been seen in controlled demolitions because they are the direct result of high-powered explosives being detonated. I've challenged many to find these plumes recorded at any other collapse event in history besides controlled demolition and nobody has been able to accept the challenge and prove it wrong.

In the case of the south tower, it's not the first time a demolition has been performed as was seen:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/379570d95fd1.jpg[/atsimg]

And as far as WTC7, WTC7 fell more perfectly straight than the demolition it's compared to below. If fires can do this, why do demo companies waste so much money on explosives and dozens of people to prep a building and plant the explosives instead of a few people to light some fires?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a39ae149b0f6.gif[/atsimg]

All of the above is proof of explosives.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
there is an explanable reason why the towers collapsed vertically.

There is? Could you please share this explainable reason with the rest of us because I've never heard one yet. Not a single steel-structured highrise has ever collapsed globally all the way to the ground through the most resistance due to fire before 9/11 or after.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
Obviously, the builing was built to prevent sway, because you are going to get a lot of sway in a building that size due to wind.

You haven't researched the construction and design of the towers, I see. The towers were designed to sway. They actually used viscoelastic dampers at the joints between floor trusses and perimeter columns along with some other structural modifications to reduce the sway to acceptable levels.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
The guy who designed it said that he built it to withstand a direct hit from a plane, but did not properly account for a plane with a fuel load of fuel.

False again. WTC Construction and Project Manager, Frank Demartini, said "fully loaded jetliners". "Fully loaded" meaning full passengers, luggage and fuel. In otherwords, the heaviest a plane can be.

In Mr. DeMartini's own words:
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by grapesofraft
What proof do you have of molten steel. Here is something to debunk that.

That's not a debunk. That's just their take or opinion. Says so right on the page. The witnesses and images of the molten metal is proof enough.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
I have not ever heard any stories of firefirghters hearing explosions

That's because you haven't done any extensive research on 9/11. Here's an interview with firefighter John Schroeder:

www.youtube.com...

Here's the oral histories of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians on what happened that day:

graphics8.nytimes.com...

And if you don't want to read through all 503, here's an excellent lecture from Dr. Graeme MacQueen about how the towers collapsed and he reads some of the oral histories:

video.google.com...

Originally posted by grapesofraft
There was a bunch of fires going on in the building and some stuff is going to explode when it gets hot enough.

The fires were only at the impact zones. Not 50-80 stories down where many of the explosions were taking place.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
What I do know is there is no proof of massive explosions.

How could you possibly know? Were you there in the towers that day? Did you do a forensic analysis on the steel before it was taken away? There are many firefighters and survivors that talk about the multiple explosions on the lower levels of the WTC. People got knocked around in stairwells from the explosions. The lobby was destroyed so bad that several firefighters had mentioned that it looked like the plane hit the lobby. Many people were killed or severely injured in the basement levels from the explosions. A 10-ton press vanished, parking garage destroyed.

Here you can see the smoke rising from the bases of the towers from the explosions:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/281ec7f5d137.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
How else will we get our day in court?

How can you say "our" day in court like you're a truther when you post debunker links and "kind of" believe in the official story? That's an oxymoron.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
BUT, there is just no way I can accept anyone in, or associated with, the US Government, who are that evil and callous as to have perpetrated such an immense and heinous scheme!!

That is straight denial talking. They drew up plans to perpetrate just such an immense and heinous scheme called "Operation Northwoods" back in the 1960's. The entire Joint Chiefs and Secretary of Defense signed off on it. "Joint Chiefs" meaning the leaders of our military forces. Do you think that mind-set of false-flag terrorism has went away?

Then there's Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz who tried to get us to go to war with Russia back in the 1970's by saying Russia was amassing weapons of mass destruction. Turns out they were lying and nothing came of it:

www.youtube.com...

Fast forward to 2001. Same Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz in power again and this time Iraq is amassing weapons of mass destruction. Turns out they were again lying, but they got their war.

There are patterns to some things in history and a select few people have been associated with some of those patterns.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by grapesofraft

 

FWIW, grapes.

Since we live in the 21st century we are destined to be faced with these sorts of conflicting opinions, theories and (sometimes) outright fabrications that swirl around very quickly now, because of the Internet.

Just to prove a point, just look at how much time and energy was wasted (??) on the AF447 crash. Right here, at ATS, there were dozens of 'theories' and 'opinions' virtually immediately when the news broke. You see, it wasn't just a "plane crash", it HAD to have been a conspiracy!!! Everything from intentional assassination, to aliens, to magnetic anomalies and Solar Flares!!! Again, it is the viral nature of the Internet.

Now, as to 9/11, I can only speak from experience regarding the aspect of hijacking airplanes, and flying them on suicide missions into buildings, even with minimal training. YES, it can be done. I won't waste time here, explaining, because it's been done before, numerous times. AND, we have seen, tragically, time and time again that Muslim extremists are very willing to commit suicide when attacking a 'target'.

Certainly, no one will argue with that???

About buildings collapsing? You will have to draw your own conclusions. Frankly, that day, I was hoping that they would stand. I was thinking of A) the forensics of investigating the scene, to include recovery of the Flight Recorder and CVR, and B) wishing not to lose the iconic landmark of the Twin Towers.

When they collapsed, I was disappointed, and saddened. BUT I saw nothing unusual, on TV. I saw it nearly live....I think I was on NBC, so the Today Show talking heads were blabbering on, and the live feed showed the first collapse on the screen behind them.

It was only later, as it sank in, that I realized the horror of the people trapped above the burning floors. AND, those that chose to jump....

edit: Arrrgh! Hit the wrong key!


[edit on 6/11/0909 by weedwhacker]

I agree it is just sooo hard for normal folks to fathom how evil another man can be. Kinda like when you try to figure out a pedophile eh? You cant understand them niether can you? Same thing,a sane man cannot fathom the depths of insanity.

Originally posted by CameronFox

Originally posted by Redpillblues
I think there is only 1 person that knows the whole truth..Just look up..

Eddie?
(not a one liner.. just an Iron Maiden fan!)

Look hard enough, Cameron and you'll see me in the crowd on the Flight 666 DVD - a couple of times. Hint, it's during the Aussie section.

At least that was one airliner that wasn't going to be hijacked and taken over!

The truth about 9/11 is that the government is hiding something. They've left enough loose ends to show that they're not playing with their cards above the table.

oH.....MY.........god.

Dod Bonez just say there were squibs? Squibs?

I can beleive this. And the truth movement actually wonders why they are ignored or laughed off.

Truly amazing. Squibs. Squibbs??

Not one demolition expert in the World thinks thats a squib, but Bonez does. Wow. Just wow.

oH.....MY.........god.

Dod Bonez just say there were squibs? Squibs?

I can beleive this. And the truth movement actually wonders why they are ignored or laughed off.

Truly amazing. Squibs. Squibbs??

Not one demolition expert in the World thinks thats a squib, but Bonez does. Wow. Just wow.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by weedwhacker
BUT, there is just no way I can accept anyone in, or associated with, the US Government, who are that evil and callous as to have perpetrated such an immense and heinous scheme!!

That is straight denial talking. They drew up plans to perpetrate just such an immense and heinous scheme called "Operation Northwoods" back in the 1960's. The entire Joint Chiefs and Secretary of Defense signed off on it. "Joint Chiefs" meaning the leaders of our military forces. Do you think that mind-set of false-flag terrorism has went away?

.

Are you really Alex Jones?? You manipulate the truth in the exact same manner he does.

Operations Northwoods was a scheme that involved the death of zero Americans. Why the the truthers like to bring up this ridiculous document when talking about 911 is beyond me. Thankfully, educated people like me see through the propaganda.


I still cant believe you wrote...They drew up plans to perpetrate just such an immense and heinous scheme called "Operation Northwoods..

You may fool others. But you dont fool me with your nonsense of Operation Northwoods and "just such as immense"

Disgusting how others try to manipulate others with half truths and misinformation.

Shame on you Bonez.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Big Unit]

reply to post by Big Unit


Ok,then what is your explanition for the above mention squibs..??

Not that I buy into whatever,I have my own theory,but do not consider myself a truther..

I grant you that yes,this are taken as proof that are easily explainable by someone who has experiance..Just as i shoot down most on the pics of the cut columns..

Its alsost easily explained as a jigsaw puzzle dumpmped onto the floor..Looking for the peices take time,sometimes you see a peice and swear it will fit..But once you look at it better,and try to fit it,it certainly doesnt..I think thats the best analogy to use..People see the peices but havent tryed to make it fit..wether be it,not knowing any better,or rather just go with the flow..

This is where truthers get a bad rap..some have the right peices,but some if not most have the wrong ones..But at the end of the day they still have a reason to put together the puzzle..

This was thought of way before the planes even took off that day..

[mod edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link
..............................................................................




Compressed air. Just like every expert in the world says.

But you wont believe that. You're smarter than everyone else? Am I right or am I right?




[edit on 12-6-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

no,that would make sence..i dont like to throw the word logic around,as people seem to confuse that word with opinion...

I am in no means smarter than anyone,hell I barely finshed 12th grade..But the one thing I have always had on my side in an open mind with a pretty good understanding of mechanics and enginearing..

I don't let my heart lead my brain as most do..

I wouldnt call anyone stupic for thinking that they may be squibs,I would call them in-expeirianced to think that thats ALL they could be..

In the case of the south tower, it's not the first time a demolition has been performed as was seen:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/379570d95fd1.jpg[/atsimg]

This is a perfect example of how charlatans like Bone-Z try to mislead others.


He takes a picture of the WTC and shows only the very top portion of it, then puts another picture of something that looks about 7 stories tall.

Thats his 1st way to manipulate. He doesnt show you the picture of the entire WTC building like he does with that "7" story building. He may have fooled you. He didnt fool me.

He wants you to think that this 7 story building was a top down demolition. But look at it. It appears the blast begins aprroximately 30% from the bottom. So he takes a 7 story building, shows it blasted 30% from the bottom, that in itself wouldnt be considered a top down demoliotion.

And of course, the initial collpase of the towers began at around 80% from the bottom of the building.

So to recap Bone-z manipulation

He compares 7 story building that appears to collapse from 30% of the bottom

to

110 story skyscraper that appears to collapse 80% from the bottom.

He, of course, does a nice job of trying to con you with those pictures. Doesnt fool me, hope it didnt fool you.

The biggest thing anyone has to think about is that we don't know. There is enough inconsistencies in the official story that anyone with an IQ bigger than a grape would at least wonder, but we can't say it was our government, or the Israelis, or Bin laden. If you think about the day it happened, they had already figured out it was Bin laden what, 3 hours after it happened? These are the same people who never saw the recession coming. It is not important right now to blame someone. It is important to put forth some effort to find out the answers to some of the questions that exist.

1. Why did building 7 fall?
2. what really happened to Flight 93?
3. Why is there no picture of the plane hitting the Pentagon when there was all those cameras out there?
4. How did both buildings fall identically when the planes hit in completely different areas of the building?
5. Who benefited most from 911?

reply to post by Big Unit


at the moment this picture was taken, would you consider WTC to be a stable base? (below the falling part)