Questions regarding advancing beyond the 3rd Degree

Masonic Light and Masked Avatar mentioned in another thread that Shriners are drawn from 33rd Degree (or was it 32nd Degree?) masons from either the Scottish Rite or Knights Templar. I remember reading (some time ago) that there are several "divisions" of Freemasonry beyond the Blue Lodge. I actually saw a very nice chart that showed how the different divisions were organized. Could one of the regular Masons here give me a good link that explains the degrees beyond those of the Blue Lodge? I've done some Googling, but can't find anything that matches what I'm looking for.

Thanks.

Shriners were originally 33rd degree masons but now 3rd degree masons can join as well.

Here is a link to US degrees:

www.usgennet.org...

I have to admit that I fiind US masonry very confusing. There seems to be a different way of doing things over there and numerous ways to do it.

Over here in the UK, we have one simple structure (or simple in my opinion, but then I guess you're happier with whay you know!!!). We have Craft which is the 3 degrees and then we just go on from there. Some degrees are only open to you if you join the Mark Degree and some if you join the Chapter, so this is really the only place where UK masonry really seems to have branches.
We don't have Shriners either. Trust the Yanks to make things confusing.

Thanks, Leveller. I'll check out that link.

A brief correction:

Membership in the Shrine was originally limited to the 32� Scottish Rite Masons (not 33�) or Masons who were Knights Templar in the York Rite. In the Scottish Rite, the 33� is honorary.

Fiat Lvx.

After poking around a bit more, I found exactly the info I was looking for:
www.thelodgeroom.com...

I'm curious about the "Cryptic Masonry" offshoot. How are these connected, if at all, to the Scottish Rite and York Rite?

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree
I'm curious about the "Cryptic Masonry" offshoot. How are these connected, if at all, to the Scottish Rite and York Rite?

Cryptic Masonry is part of the York Rite, and consists of the Degrees of Royal and Select Master. They are conferred in a Council of Royal and Select Masters, and are called "Cryptic" because they are based on a rabbinic legend of King Solomon having built an underground chamber beneath the Temple where the archives of Masonry and Architecture could be safely stored.
Royal Arch Masons in good standing are eligible to receive the Cryptic Degrees.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Thanks, MasonicLight. You're a veritble treasure trove of Masonic lore.

I see they have a body called The Grotto. Isn't that what Satanist call thier groups?

Originally posted by TgSoe
I see they have a body called The Grotto. Isn't that what Satanist call thier groups?

lol, I have no idea, but the word means a cave or cavern.
The official title of the Masonic Grottos is "Mystic Order of Veiled Prophets of the Enchanted Realm", and its ceremonies are based on the history of Mokanna, known as the Veiled Prophet of Persia.
The order is open to Master Masons in good standing, and is a fun/fellowship organization similar to the Shriners.
The official website of the Grotto Supreme Council is here:
www.scgrotto.com...

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Masonic Light]

Okay, so I've now read that the Master Mason degree (3rd degree) is the highest there is and the other degrees, even though numerically higher, are not really a ranking system. Is this correct?

Also, what is the basic process for advancing from one degree to the next beyond the Master Mason degree? How long, on average, does it take to go from one degree to the next? The reason I ask this is because I met a Mason a few years ago that told me he was a 32-degree Scottish Rite AND a Knight Templar. He looked to be about 50 or 55, and it seemed like it would take a long time to work your way up both sides of Masonry.

I hope these questions make sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree
Okay, so I've now read that the Master Mason degree (3rd degree) is the highest there is and the other degrees, even though numerically higher, are not really a ranking system. Is this correct?

Yes. Degrees received after the Third are considered elaborations on the first three. The Three Degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry are the basis of our Fraternity; other degrees choose various points from first three to explore further.

Also, what is the basic process for advancing from one degree to the next beyond the Master Mason degree? How long, on average, does it take to go from one degree to the next? The reason I ask this is because I met a Mason a few years ago that told me he was a 32-degree Scottish Rite AND a Knight Templar. He looked to be about 50 or 55, and it seemed like it would take a long time to work your way up both sides of Masonry.

In my jurisdiction, there is a minimum 28 day waiting period between the three degrees of the Blue Lodge, although this varies from state to state.
After becoming a Master Mason, there is no waiting period for other degrees. If you want to then join the Scottish Rite, you would fill out an application, requesting the 4� - 32�. Scottish Rite Degrees are usually conferred twice per year in Scottish Rite Temples (spring and fall) in all-day marathons that usually span two or three weekends. My Temple begins on a Friday night, and does the 4�-10�, then back early Saturday morning for the 11�-18�. We take the next weekend off, then back the next Friday evening for 19�-29�, then again all day Saturday for 30�-32�, which includes the banquet for new members and ladies.
The York Rite is a little different. It begins with the Chapter, which confers four degrees (Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master, Royal Arch Mason). Most York Rite Temples confer the first three of these in one night, then come back a few days later for the Royal Arch. After this, the Council degrees (Royal and Select Master) are conferred in one night.
Next are the three chivalric orders of the Commandery (Order of the Red Cross, Order of Knights of Malta, Order of Knights Templar). The first two are usually conferred in one night, with Knights Templar degree being conferred alone a few nights later. It usually takes 4 � 6 weeks to complete the York Rite cycle.
The York Rite also has many honorary and side degrees. Those who have served as High Priest of a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons are eligible for the Order of Melchizadek. Those who have served as Thrice Illustrious Master of a Council of Cryptic Masons are eligible for the Order of the Silver Trowel. And those who have served as Commander of a Commandery of Knights Templar are eligible to receive the Order of Knight Crusaders of the Cross. Past Commanders of exceptional ability and service may also be received into the Order of Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, one of the highest honors in the York Rite, sort of equivalent to the 33� in the Scottish Rite.
But back to your question: it takes only as long as you want, depending on how much time you have to devote to it. If you ever to decide to become a Shriner, this usually takes a Friday evening and all day Saturday session, including banquet and parade.


Fiat Lvx.

Thanks, MasonicLight! Your post was very informative.

I assumed that it would only be possible to do a few degrees per year. Huh. That's fascinating. I guess I thought of it as a system of ranking.

Thanks again.

It is Pretty Amazing on how they set up the PYRAMID huh? Society has become expert at this - that is OK - the USA that I know & am proud of is all about FREEDOM!!!

-"Give me Liberty or give me Death"!!!

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
It is Pretty Amazing on how they set up the PYRAMID huh?

Better a pyramid than a pentagram, but visualizing Masonry as a pyramid hierarchy is inaccurate, the branches of a tree, or bush (yes, I said Bush by George, now the political nuts will have sort through this on their searches) would be a better visualization. A Master Mason who never explored the Concordant bodies could still become Grand Master of his Grand Lodge; 33rd Degree SRSJ Masons, Potentates of Shrines, the Right Eminent Grand Commander of the York Rite and any other Masonic Body would still have to look first to him, as the arbiter of Masonic Conduct, and Edicts. A funny looking pyramid you have there. Here's one look at Masonic structure (sorry about the bad music) though it is limited in scope. Here is a look at Masonic symbols that should provide some interesting comments.

Qote: "Better a Pyramid than a Pentagram"

Whats wrong with a Pentagram? - Pythagoras gets a Bad Rap now-a-days

You know the Pentagram used to be considered a "Christian Symbol"!

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree
Thanks, MasonicLight! Your post was very informative.

I assumed that it would only be possible to do a few degrees per year. Huh. That's fascinating. I guess I thought of it as a system of ranking.

Thanks again.

Traditionally, in the UK and Europe it does take much longer. In North America where the focus of everything is instant gratification and money, degrees beyond the third are essentially purchased, no body of knowledge is required to be learned by the candidate, you just pay you money, show up, and watch an exemplification. It is really quite a shame.

Boy, am I finding a lot to argue with today.

To claim that concordant degrees in North America are simply "purchased" is incorrect. This is no more true than the idea that the first three degrees are simply "purchased." Certainly, it is the case that we can view the degrees much more rapidly than you can in the UK, and I'm grateful for that... if I should suddenly die, for example, I'm glad that I could see all of the degrees of the Scottish Rite rather than having to wait years and years to see them. Likewise, I'm very pleased that I could obtain my Craft Lodge degrees quickly, because it meant that I could start taking on work (and Work) in the Lodge right away... and I would challenge anyone to claim that I am not an asset (however small) to the Fraternity.

As every Freemason knows, a degree held but not acted on in one's daily life is not a degree at all. A Freemason is obligated to understand his studies, no matter how quickly or slowly he has taken them.

I have nothing against the UK system, by the way, but I am a little dismayed to know there may have been brethren who missed out on Masonry because they died before they could achieve their true potential.

I must agree with Alex regarding this point. Although my lodge does advance and work at a healthy and at times swift pace we take the pace and advancement of our brothers very seriously and make sure they are well versed and prepared for taking the next steps. We don't care about money, you can't simply purchase degrees in our lodge, you must be worthy and ready, there are no exceptions.

My statement of 'purchasing degrees' is directed at appendant bodies, not at blue lodge itself, though even there you progress much quicker in the US.

I belong to the three major York Rite bodies as well as the NJ of the AASR, and the degrees were indeed 'purchased' York Rite festivals are conducted in which all three bodies are gone through in a matter of days, as well as the 'reunions' in which the AASR confers degrees. You simply pay your money, show up, and watch. Seems pretty much like purchasing a degree to me.

Pennsylvania is conducting one of those 'one day class' travesties this fall in which everything will be 'purchased'. Walk in in the morning. leave the end of the day with all three blue lodge degrees, the 32nd degree in AASR, and a Shriner.

I wouldn't agree with swordsman either. We just do things differently.

Alex. I don't think it's a case of dieing before you find out what's going on. Although it takes a lot longer to get to a comparative stage with a US mason, the UK mason does get there eventually if he is prepared to put in the work. I should hold a high number of degrees well before my 50th birthday if I keep up the effort that I am putting in now.

Having a lot of degrees does cost a bit of money over here though. Each degree has it's own subscription fee and quite a few masons can't actually afford to go on. I see this as more of a barrier than the age issue.