NKorea steps up rhetoric amid nuclear crisis

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by DOADOA

 

and we here in the US are blessed with a wonderful government that do not force feed us BS. nicely stated

I assume you are being sarcastic. How about this... North Korea doesn't have access to sites like ATS like you do. They can't cross reference any of the governments BS to make an informed opinion. The ONLY info that they get is what the government gives them. That is completely different than what we have in the US.

right, the honest information we are given from our media is given to us so that our government will fail at manipulating us. am i right?

You are right. We are no better off than North Korea. Thank you for helping me see the truth.

Originally posted by Redpillblues
ok what i see here is NK
funneling money to terrorists..
Testing missiles without consent
testing nukes without consent
Saying any cargo ships searched is a act of war
threatning the use of nukes if provoked with an act of war..

I'd be damned if the world is gonna be punked down wanting to search ships that possibly could be transporting any type of nuke material..

We should act like gentleman,but if sucker punched level the place..We cant waiver with nukes..

funneling money to terrorist, iraq has WMD. wheres the proof?
testing missiles without consent, did seven other nation who has nuke need consent? just because we can bully someone doesn't mean we have to. give me your lunch money or die.
testing nukes without consent, we did it. which nation burned and made ours king? japan......from nukes.
any cargo ship searched is an act of war. when was the last time Nkorean or any other country searched our vessels in OUR water?

if we want to recover from this recession, worry about OUR people, give us back our jobs and prosper once more, why don't we just mind our own business. if they want nukes, who are we to stop them? if any nation violate us, its our right to retaliate. this too should also be their right. we can not and should not be responsible for their actions. if anyone should do anything about Nkorea it should be china, not us. we're suffering here at home and we're worrying about a country that has nothing to do with us. its ridiculous.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


is a thread which is the promice of defence if attack Really a threat?

its more like a cornered dog bareing its teeth so it doesnt get hurt.

its unsuprising NK say stuff like this, when they have the rest of the world super powers and every internet dirt sheet threatening them .?

(im not for or against anyone, but i hate the way whenever they say anything its classed as a blatent threat,, when its not)

Originally posted by Oatmeal
We need a strong statement from our government. OK if NK wants to be left alone, then we can leave them alone. No more humanitarian aid, no more food aid. And if they threaten us or South Korea again, the consequences will be more than they can handle. The Obama government needs to get a pair...

exactly, have your nukes, defend yourselves but don't cry for help when you need it. we have been providing them humanitarian aid along with the WFC and the UN since 1995. we should stop helping other countries when ours is in a bad case itself. the iraq war has send this country into a recession and there are STILL people in here who ask for another. i've had enough of this BS. if you want war go start your own country and start one with Nkorea, do not speak for this nation and cry for nukes every time another nation progress.

Originally posted by Karlhungis

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by DOADOA

 

and we here in the US are blessed with a wonderful government that do not force feed us BS. nicely stated

I assume you are being sarcastic. How about this... North Korea doesn't have access to sites like ATS like you do. They can't cross reference any of the governments BS to make an informed opinion. The ONLY info that they get is what the government gives them. That is completely different than what we have in the US.

right, the honest information we are given from our media is given to us so that our government will fail at manipulating us. am i right?

You are right. We are no better off than North Korea. Thank you for helping me see the truth.

yes, and being in debt for trillions of dollars technically make us the poorest nation on earth. "the richest man is a man without debt," a man once said, its true.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
North Korea is now flat out threatening the US and other countries if they do ANYTHING to curb NK's ambitions.

Hi leader,

Actually they are threatening to retaliat if provoked. Why you presume that they will escalate to a nuclear attack based on a small provacation ( they are already subject of destructive sanctions) is something you should look into.

Even if we place more sanctions they are threatening to use nuclear war as a solution.

Only if further provoked by yet more aggressive actions?

It is begining to look like the time for talking is over. When a country has nuclear technology and threatens to use it, to me they have committed an act of war.

Then the US national security state have declared war on even more countries than it has already invaded&occupied. Why can the US government threaten the US of nuclear weapons when it has thousands but the North Koreans can't when they have but a few? Why should i be afraid of the North Koreans who would have everything to lose when the US could nuke a dozen countries without much dimishing it's stocks?

Do you understand that this comes down to you not trusting the North Koreas, who have not invaded anyone in half a century, and me not trusting the US national security state who have invaded a dozen countries in the same timeframe?

Threatening nuclear attack is not acceptable. It was bad enough that they were posturing. Now they are outright threathening the world to leave them alone or else.

And we all know no country in the world other than the USA ( with the plenty of nukes) has earned the right to be left alone? Why this ridiculous double standard? Wouldn't all problems be avoided if we simply left North Korea alone or, better yet, for the US government to finally end the Korean war by signing a formal peace treaty; something it has refused to do for all these years thus forcing North Korea to keep on preparing for a potential US escalation?

If they want a war lets give it to them.

hosted.ap.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Big words for a nation, as there are actually people in the US government that argues in the same fashion you do, that have failed to pacify even the most westernized nation in the middle East.

I would say good luck but i think we can all do with less war and bloodshed

Stellar

Originally posted by misfitoy
So when these articles say "North Korea said..." exactly 'whom' are they referring to? Is this another way of saying Kim and his buddies say, or does the majority of North Korea feel this way and support this kind of attitude?

Sorry, but this has to be one of the most naive posts ever on ATS.

You actually think NK is some sort of democracy where anyone but Kim and his minions have a say in national policy - or anything for that matter?

"Kim and his buddies" control absolutely everything in NK.

Prediction alert!! I say that NK will either set off another nuke on July 4th or have a big show of long range missile tests or both.

We don't have long to wait.


Also, if they have low grade nuclear material available they can start pumping out DU artillery shells. Since these are not considered nuclear in nature, they can be freely bought and sold on world markets without treaty violations.

IMHO, these provocations are a response to the evident weakness of US leadership. If the Obama administration would take a hard line with his knucklehead it would be over without a shot fired.

Yet, all we see is the US ignoring the problem and relying on the UN to fix the problem----ludicrous.

reply to post by traderjack


I would say do not under-estimate the US. Remember what they done to Japan at the end of the 2nd World War.. I quite believe, when push comes to shove, they would do the exact same thing, only this time 10 times worse than Hiroshima. Even Russia and China are not happy with NKorea.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by Laurauk]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by misfitoy

 

The North Korean people only get info from the government. They are completely isolated and they worship their leader as a living god. They have been indoctrinated into hating the US. I would be surprised if there were many North Koreans that didn't echo the sentiment of the statement.

Actually (thanks to S. Korean soap operas believe it or not) there is a large underground movement in N. Korea that defect N Koreans and also help to protect them with identity changes etc.

It started off with soap operas being smuggled into N. Korea and they seen them believing that is how all the world lives, not realizing that's not correct, and started looking for ways to escape. An Underground rail road you might want to call it has been formed and people are defecting every day.

The problem now is that they can not tell anyone because N. Korea has sent spys out to the surrounding countries who kill these folks on sight both defectors and members of the underground.

At night in N Korea they draw the curtains closed and play the soaps. The authorities sometimes cut the power to entire cities and any home found with a soap in the VCR is then arrested and either public execution or labor camps.

Hence everyone thinks they are brainwashed when in reality most of them do know the truth. Their living conditions are extremely poor and guaranteed if N Korea was invaded and they knew the enemy was handing out free food they would surrender faster than the Iraqi's did.

Hence the reason for a Nuclear threat from the country as it's the only way to keep an invasion out and they are assuming the UN wiould never allow their country to be nuked. What they fail to realize is just one PO'ed nation could say ah forget it and wipe NK right off the map without approval from the UN. We know this but NK is betting all the chips that no one would dare do it or call their bluff assuming it is a bluff.

Here's a smuggled out documentary,

Link

Here's a legal documentary that NK allowed,

Link

I'm watching more of them I found if anything is all that different in these I'll give links but chances are these 2 pretty much cover it.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by Darthorious]

Here's another point, NK seems fearless, why? Do they have more nukes ready to go or have they pressed a large number of DU shells. South Korea has a great repository of DU shells and weapons.

If they start shooting this stuff off it will poison the planet. We will all be looking at chemtrails till we die, as governments use polymers to remove the DU particles from the air that were caught up in the jet stream. Yikes! Double yikes!!

Remember the spike in lung cancer cases in the US right after "Shock and Awe"?

This is how I feel about the situation in general and in light of this new threat.

Since some are comparing the current conflict in Iraq to a possible conflict in NK, I would say that they are totally different. Iraq, from my perspective, was a safe bet. They had never shown possesion of any WMDs or at least nuclear ones. We had also previously shown that the US was dominant in a military perspective. Plus there was the oil thing. Iraq had a big commodity to lose...their oil.

NK is a different situation. They've shown nuclear capabilities and they don't have anything to lose. They're openly making threats. While it is very hypocritical of the nuclear powers to tell other countries that they can't have the same, there is such a thing as world wide trust at play.

North Korea is not a safe bet. Though the longer we wait, the better chance that they are building a small, though scary, stockpile.

Originally posted by LeaderOfProgress
Also you are comparing this to the Iraq propaganda. There is no true comparison to the two scenarios. The Iraq war was started off of speculation and hearsay.

Hi leader,

To the best of our information the war against Iraq was decided upon on september 12; not because there was new or valid information about a WOMD program but because the Bush adminstration ( read US national security state) believed that they had finally found the excuse they would need to invade and occupy Iraq.

Wars are not started based on speculation and hearsay and this one did not break that mold.

This war if or when it becomes that will be started off of confessions from the perpetrators themselves.

Perpetrators of what? What crimes have North Korea commited that the US government and armed forces have not commited a thousand times over in the last half century?

Iraq denied having WMDs North Koreal however boasts of it's WMD capabilities.

But it never matterd if Iraq had them or not as the US would have still invaded and injected hundreds of thousands of men with experimental vaccines against the suspected chemical and biological weapons they also knew could not and did no longer exist. If they said anything about Iraq having foreign WOMD on their soil perhaps they got have gotten my attention but as it was they claimed that Iraq had their own and were supposedly going to sell them to 'terrorist'. All lies and they KNEW that they were telling us lies.

With that being said you are comparing apples to oranges so to speak.

Indeed. It can be argued that Iraq had a history of violence against it's neighbours ( even if we don't mention that the US government supported it at that time) where as North Korea did not have anything similar. Again we were told lies even when there were some self evident truths that could have been employed to make the case for war against Iraq.

They understood that they had to involve WOMD or terrorism to get at least a small section of the American public motivated, to aid their imperialism, and that's why they settled on lying over just giving us the truth.

Stellar

Originally posted by boaby_phet
reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

 

is a thread which is the promice of defence if attack Really a threat?

its more like a cornered dog bareing its teeth so it doesnt get hurt.

its unsuprising NK say stuff like this, when they have the rest of the world super powers and every internet dirt sheet threatening them .?

(im not for or against anyone, but i hate the way whenever they say anything its classed as a blatent threat,, when its not)

I would have agreed with you two months ago. But at this point I think we need to aknowledge that NK has delivered recently on many of its threats.

-- NK said they were going to launch missles -- and they did.
-- NK said they were going to test a nuke -- and they did.
-- NK said that they were going to try & convict the US journalists -- they did.
-- NK said they were going to push SK out of their joint industrial complex by unilaterally demanding higher rents and less pay -- and they are.

This can be a much longer list if you like. My point is, when do you say OK enough?

Now NK is threatening to us NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN AN OFFENSIVE.

Not to be confused with defense - which means we would be ok as long as we don't strike first.

Now that they are taking an offensive position, I think it's time to put an end to this -- and fast. Not that I am really in favor of the US getting involved. This is the last thing we need.

(note: I was in favor of sitting back and waiting it out as long as they were taking the defensive approach. I've since changed my mind. I think we are beyond "meaningless rhetoric".)

reply to post by total newbie


Depleted uranium is worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki, i found this report on the web. IF the below is true then its a middle east disaster, even a global disaster since this stuff is floating around in the air.

The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority has estimated that 50 tons of DU dust from the first Gulf War could lead to 500,000 cancer deaths by the year 2000. To date, a total of 2,000 tons have been generated in the Middle East.

More than ten times the amount of radiation released during atmospheric testing [of nuclear bombs] has been released from DU weaponry since 1991,” said Leuren Moret, a U.S. nuclear scientist. “The genetic future of the Iraqi people, for the most part, is destroyed. The environment now is completely radioactive.”

Because DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, the Middle East will, for all practical purposes, be radioactive forever.

Article source

due to the actions of america since vietnam, cant be bothered to list the amount of crap they have inflicted upon the world, if i were a leader of a country i to would try to get a nuclear deterent, to protect my country from america, (who have in excess of 1500 nukes), after all if you dont run your country in a way america agrees with your gonna have interference from them. its about time everybody put their big guns away, but it has gotta start with the usa so that people no longer feel so threatened

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress

They have threatened this before, it is nothing new. All they really are doing is trying to provoke the US into making first strike. Pretty soon they will trot out the two journalists as the bargaining chip, they probably are shipping them to one of the bomb target sites as we speak.

reply to post by THELONIO

You are correct. I think the UN backed off of supporting the US's stance against NK, Iran and certain other nations having nuclear capabilities because it is a balance of powers that keeps the US from furthering the policy of manifest destiny (which was never repealed, contrary to popular belief). The more nations that are capable of taking us outor neutralizing us, the less likely we are to pull any more 911s or Iraq invasions, not to mention dropping spent uranium on a populace which technically is a nuclear weapon.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Wow, that is a very strong statement. I certainly understand the complexity of the situation but it is still entertaining to see our hypocrisy highlighted on a global stage. We went into Iraq, forced a regime change, executed their leader and killed scores of people because we "had intelligence" that said he had WMD's and might use them. Now we have a mad man that has not only shown that he 100% has WMD's, but has openly threatened to use them if we so much as look at them and we aren't doing anything about it.

Good point, but...killed 'scores' of people??

Try upwards of over a million people since 2003.

Interesting isn't it...WELL over a million innocent Iraqi's dead, getting on for 20% or so of what Hitler managed in WWII, yet no-one is is calling Bush/Blair genocidal maniacs...not even plain old murderers!
Actually, let's include the 3-4000 dead from WTC bombings (yes, nano-thermite bombings) among the murdered too again, based on a LIE...not even going to go into Afgani dead...based on a LIE.

How many people have to die (Based on an out and out LIE) in order to claim mass murder or genocide? A million? Two? Six?

Our leaders are mostly all corrupt or otherwise bent (on the make), they take our countrys to war based on not faulty intelligence, but lies. In order to make billions from reconstruction and oil (let's not forget arms sales eh?)