AP sources: House Dems favor insurance requirement

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


This is the biggest power grab in the history of this nation and people still think that everything is beautiful and that the new president is all to bring great change, he is nothing but another butt kisser to big corporate interest or anybody here forgot already how we were forced to bailout the banking system, what do you call that? socialism, not that is corporate power behind the government playing socialism.

I am currently telling all of my friends and family about this. It is so important that we spread the word about what our government is trying to do. This is an outrage and is a policy against all of the values our country was founded on. One word. Socialism. One more word. Enslavement.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


This health care has nothing free in it you have to let people understand that, when a government is forcing people to do what the government wants them to do is not such thing as freedom of choice anymore in the nation.

This insurance is not free, and the mere issue of raising federal taxes to pay for it tells a lot about who is going to benefit from forced insurance prices and on top of that forced taxes to support the insurance.

This to become another government disaster.

reply to post by marg6043


This is corporatism. Socialism is the buzz word. What they have done is gotten the young in this nation to accept socialism, so saying something is socialist is a moot point.

What they fail to realize is that Fascism, Socialism, Communism, are all the same thing, they are just control structures for the government. The people that advocate those system fail to realize that there has to be somebody in charge to distribute the goods.

The only true economic structure that allows freedom is capitalism. Many people will try to argue with me on this point, but in the real world that is just the way it is.

The government wants complete control over us and the corporations want to use us as unlimited money machines.

Universal Health Care/Insurance will never work in this country, our politicians are controlled by special interest.

For those who want universal health care...this ISN'T what they want.

This still works in favor of the insurance companies.

The Democrats ARE BOUGHT...just like the Republicans by the big wigs of the Health industry.

I've said it time and time again...NEITHER PARTY WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE!!

It's all big business. CEO's of insurance companies should not be making BILLIONS of dollars at the cost of denying people health care.

Make insurance NON PROFIT....and keep the government out of it.

The American people don't even have a fighting chance anymore...

People say that Obama is bringing Fascism.....but Fascism was already here. The strength of it is only becoming stronger under this adminstration.

Government and big business are directly tied to one another....both are too big to fail.

Anything that is too big to fail....IS TOO BIG TO EXIST.

Simple as that.

Anti-trust laws need to be USED.

Everything needs to be shrunk down to size imo.

Power corrupts...whether it be power gained from government..or big business.

reply to post by David9176


Well that is the problem the companies that are "too big to fail" are their control structures. Health Care will just put our health in the hands of the bankers.

It is all about control, they are trying to implement a system of "an illusion of freedom" but it is a fairy tail. Eventually they squeeze so much that people realize what they are doing.

Health Care is the bastion of freedom, sure it is run by corruption, but people fail to see the power that they have, if everyone dropped their health insurance the insurance companies will fail within a month.

People hate capitalism because they aren't taught how to play the game. The ones that figure out how to play the game win big. That is why the wealth in this country is so concentrated, because they have dumbed the people down so much to willing give their lives(literally) to the corruption. In the form of "free" health care.

There are many problems plaguing this country and everything will fall apart before too long. People have unfounded fears of Martial Law because they don't understand how it works, all they have been taught is propaganda.

People have been taught what to think and not how to think, and more importantly people have not been taught on how to ask the right questions. Instead they rather take the easy way to do something instead of the hard way because they don't understand.

With our medical records being put into computer databases and universal health care the government can then use, psychological problems to control your future. People want things now.

Life is a game of chess, if your opponent is thinking 7 moves ahead then you need to think 14 moves ahead.

I kinda like the idea of dropping health insurance and replacing it with a better system. If the insurance angencies are so profitable it means outright that they are ripping people off.

Hahahahahaha I love it let them screw the American people some more. I want to see all those people that expected a free ride on the working class nickel have to shell out their own cash. I want to see people so mad that We will end up seeing real change for once. I think I'll start a internet business selling torches and pitch forks. I wonder if a bank will give me a loan if I have a good enough business plan.

reply to post by jkm1864


I'm sure if you are clever enough and can market it as a "green" solution you can get some of that "stimulus" money. At least you will be getting some of your tax money back.

Yea, if a piece of legislation passes that is this bad there are going to be major problems.

Of all of the topics that are hot right now, there are only a few that have such a dramatic impact on the way of life that we enjoy in the US as this one does. I am amazed at the speed at which this thread has died off. We really need to get our priorities straight people.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
The only true economic structure that allows freedom is capitalism. Many people will try to argue with me on this point, but in the real world that is just the way it is.

Well, I hope you enjoyed it while you had it because the US has not been a capitalist country for some time now. That fell about the same time as Communism, but with all the fooferah, nobody noticed. Classic capitalism, Henry Ford style...pay labour enough to buy the product they are building...is long gone. I discovered that years ago when I found you could land a pair of nikes in Vancouver for $9 bucks, and retail them for $120.

I'm all for making a fair profit on a commodity like a pair of shoes, but I'm not interested in getting the Teacher's Pension Fund 15% annually while I'm at it.

Health care is a necessary service. Take out the profit sector, and do the math on the savings. Pull all the dough that currently goes to corporations for regular health insurance and put it into the universal system. The model isn't difficult to envision, the people need to demand it. Let the corporations do the bells and whistles for employee perks.

Universal Health Care/Insurance will never work in this country, our politicians are controlled by special interest.

That is the Eeyore philosophy of governance, and those who espouse it get the government they deserve.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/549edfa9a015.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

We are now controlled by the corporations. When the corporations eliminated the "Ma and Pa" operations the effectivly killed capitalism. We no long have the "free enterprise" we used to have. I own and operate a tattoo studio, but if Walmart decided to open up studio's inside stores my studio would no longer be profitable. Now the corporations and their lobbying power have taken over the government and now dictate law to the populace based off of what is good for the company not what is good for the people.

I wrote a few posts about this portion of the article, ...

Senate Dems to start work next week on health care

... and a requirement for employers to pay a penalty if they fail to provide coverage for their workforce.

I can't just cut & paste the posts I made their, some were A LITTLE big!

Here's the link to the page I posted my feelings about this portion of their proposal with facts about how this won't help the US or it's economy or the unemployment rate!

Kennedy Bill Would Make Employers Provide Care

You'll have to scroll down a little bit to get to my 4 posts!

The gist of them are that mandatory employer health insurance would:

cause more unemployment (layoffs to afford to pay some of the employees)

cause more part time jobs (make more employees part time so they wouldn't have to pay for their insurance)

cause more small businesses to go out of business (cause even more unemployment & hurt the economy) - the struggling small businesses just can't afford the extra burden in these economic times. Small businesses are the economic backbone of this country, they are struggling now and this will just push more of them into closing their doors and giving up!

This plan also doesn't attempt to correct the problems that are causing health care to rise to proportions that the average American can't afford health care on their own.

Also, there is also a theory about how health insurance companies themselves have driven up the cost of health care to the point where the average person just can't afford to pay for health care out of pocket!

This will do nothing to help our economy or our unemployment problem!

In fact, this is the WORST possible time for them to try to push this through Congress and force Americans to pay for this!!!

[edit on 6/9/2009 by Keyhole]

What you posted was bad enough. Now with this post they are not just focusing on the employers but the people themselves. This is not a constitutional law and should be fought. The compusory auto insurance law is not constitutional but no one stood up against it. Lets not make the same mistake.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


Yes you are right is nothing but power grab for insurance companies, remember they are "to big to fail" just like the banking system.

Still Obama face will be pasted on the top of the bill so Americans can see their favorite Idol and be blinded by the promises of hope and change.

Here's an interesting article from Sen. Tom Coburn.

Health Care Reform that Will Kill the U.S. Economy

Unfortunately, the President's plan will not only endanger the U.S. economy, but millions of patients as well.

The fundamental problem is that the President and congressional leaders lack realistic plans to control the health care costs that are already crippling U.S. global competitiveness. As a percentage of GDP, our businesses spend roughly 70 percent more on health care than competitors in other developed nations, yet we hardly receive 70 percent more in real value. Health care costs also distort the efficient allocation of labor, and therefore the potential of economic growth and increases in wages. Because health insurance can be so expensive - some estimate $14,000 for a family - untold millions reluctantly opt to stay in jobs in large, dying firms that offer health insurance, rather than pursue jobs in the productive, small companies that do not.

The President's budget is short on cost-controlling details, but so far, the Democrats are relying on a new national health-insurance marketplace, modeled on Massachusetts, in which private health-care insurers compete with an expanded Medicare program. But the cost control benefit of public programs, like Medicare, and state-run markets, similar to the one in Massachusetts, is illusory. Any "savings" are achieved with accounting gimmicks that shift costs to taxpayers and future generations, through deficits and unfunded liabilities, not through genuine innovations.

In the end, the Democrats' health care reform will require drastic rationing of health care for the sick to control its costs. Consider Canadian patients, who may wait a year or longer to get radiation therapy. Or ask one of the nearly 1.8 million Britons who are waiting to get into a hospital or have an outpatient procedure. Or talk to the German breast cancer patients who are 52 percent more likely to die from the disease than Americans.

Concerns about rationing and patient outcomes are not demagoguery. How else can a government control costs in the real world?

The more arguments I hear against this health care plan the more it scares me as to what we may actually have to look forward too!

Originally posted by Keyhole
Here's an interesting article from Sen. Tom Coburn.Consider Canadian patients, who may wait a year or longer to get radiation therapy

I was treated within weeks of diagnosis...cost me $32 out of pocket. Parking.

Have you ever noticed that Republicans screech about how Universal Health Care will be the ruination of the country, but they don't come up with a better way of taking care of their fellow Americans that doesn't pad the pockets of their pals in the industry?

Sure wish all of these shills would post their campaign contributions from Big Med.

Or is everybody saying that America is too crooked or too stoopid to fix Health Care. Personally, I give the Average American more credit than that.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

I was treated within weeks of diagnosis...cost me $32 out of pocket. Parking.

Have you ever noticed that Republicans screech about how Universal Health Care will be the ruination of the country, but they don't come up with a better way of taking care of their fellow Americans that doesn't pad the pockets of their pals in the industry?

Sure wish all of these shills would post their campaign contributions from Big Med.

Or is everybody saying that America is too crooked or too stoopid to fix Health Care. Personally, I give the Average American more credit than that.

As a conservative, I can tell you that I don't give a flying flip about the insurance companies. What I do care about are quality doctors, and I believe universal health care coverage in this country would run quality physicians out of the network.

Right now, physicians issue a bill, but typically negotiate with insurance companies and settle on an amount to be paid, kind of like the sticker price on a new car. Insurance companies that give the doctors an excessive amount of trouble can be dropped from a doctor's list of accepted insurance coverage. Now substitute the U.S. Government in for private insurance companies. There is no dropping them from the list. It's them or no one and the government is going to pay the doctor what the government FEELS like paying the doctor. If the doctor doesn't like it - that's too bad.

What do you think is going to happen? Doctors are going to go out of business or you might even see the emergence of "black market" medical facilities in this country - and that, to me is even scarier. You don't think doctors will shutter their doors? Do you know any docs who live a higher class lifestyle who suddenly will have to adjust to living a middle class lifestyle? I believe there will be some sort of revolution.

And then think about this - there is already a shortage of medical personnel in this country. If the money isn't there, then what's the incentive for becoming a caregiver besides wanting to help people? And do you really think that alone will drive students to choose medicine? If so, let me point you to social workers. They want to help others and they aren't paid squat. How's that working out for this country?

Yes, insurance companies need a swift kick in the butt and the whole system needs an overhaul, but this universal coverage system isn't it.

Just think about it government socialized health care means means less freedom in personal rights in the future because don't think for a minute they'll let you smoke or anything unhealthy like that.They'll pretty much own you and lay out the rules like mandatory blood screening once a month to make sure you have no alcohol drugs nicotine in your system.What if they do find drugs in your system what then jail time? who knows

Originally posted by cdirtydevil
Just think about it government socialized health care means means less freedom in personal rights in the future because don't think for a minute they'll let you smoke or anything unhealthy like that.

Right...like they make you do in Canada.