Timewave Zero can't actually predict the future

This should be common sense, but that is extremely lacking on ATS. Timewave Zero theory is essentially a Jesus toast.

Timewave Zero or novelty theory was 'discovered' by Terrance McKenna during an intense peyote + acid trip. It is McKenna's interpretation of the King Wen sequence of the I Ching, which is a generally mysterious sequence. He made his interpretation into a fractal formula that is then subsequently graphed. McKenna then selected points in history that he thought would've been major points to match the biggest dip, so he picked the bombing of Hiroshima.

With this, the end date or Zero date, landed in October-November of 2012. He then noticed that it was close to the ending of the 13th Baktun of the Mayan calendar so he decided to pick December 21, 2012 as the end date instead. So from this you can already see that timewave zero is merely a series of INTERPRETATIONS by McKenna, many of which were made when he was tripping his face off.

But you might ask, well if it's so BS, then why does it work??

Well that's kind of a loaded question because IT DOESN'T WORK.

Pareidolia is the psychological phenomenon of interpreting random stimuli as significant. This is stemmed in the human brain's knack for finding patterns. Examples of this are clouds that look like faces, tree bark that looks like monkeys, image of Jesus burned onto toast, etc..

However, pareidolia occurs not just with visual or audio stimuli but also mental stimuli as well. You see, with so much happening in history all the time, you can always find something important that occurred. String all of those historical points together, and you have perceived random stimuli [McKenna's graph and theory based upon nothing except his own psychedelically induced speculations] as something significant.



Let us not forget that McKenna is also the father and purveyor of the "Stoned Ape" hypothesis, which ludicrously suggests that human intelligence arose from a bunch of none self-aware apes who began incorporating psilocybin mushrooms into their diets after the last ice age receded, and it gave them an evolutionary advantage. Of course, it was true that "magic mushrooms" have been used shamanistically in the Americas, and possibly Africa as well [though not much evidence], there was never proof that it was included in a normal diet. Also, shamans imply culture, which also imply humanity.

Even if you thought about it a little bit you will realize how ridiculous it is, especially if you have experienced psilocybin mushrooms. Eating psilocybin mushrooms in a normal diet? It does not make one smarter or more intelligent, nor does it give you an evolutionary advantage. If anything it is a disadvantage to survival. It makes one's mind race thoughts that are both confusing and difficult to control, as well as destroys the appetite, leaving the feeling of hunger and yet can't eat due to continuous background nausea [not a good feeling], and leaves you emotionally so open that any stimuli can immensely alter how you feel. It leaves one extremely vulnerable to danger and predators. It is not enjoyable for animals because they think they are about to die and are in intense fear. For people it is different and can be enjoyable as we have the ability to understand what is happening and that we surely will not die, don't have really any predators, know to surround ourselves with pleasant stimuli, and with experience learn to control the trip.


So in essence, Terrence McKenna is a respectable ethnobotanist and I commend him for his work in that field, but his theories leave much to be desired. What else is that he doesn't seek to provide real evidence for his theories at all.

obviously it cannot predict the future. Nobody said it could, but it does reveal some very interesting trends in the passage of time. I think its a notable study even if it is bogus.

also, i didnt know about that mushrooms thing. i think that is a pretty interesting theory, seeing as how, though regular consumption is dangerouse and dumbening, i know that thost substances certainly are mind expanding and provoke much deeper levels of thought. So... it makes some sense that mabey a particular tribe of apes began consuming mushrooms and it warped their minds a little in the right direction.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Kevin_X1]

reply to post by Kevin_X1


I think that the idea that time is a repeated pattern is interesting, but there recently have been a quickly growing cult following of the timewave theory here and someone needed to introduce the other perspective.

Future prediction leaves one with a sense that we are powerless and can't do anything to stop it, and that is very detrimental to our goals of effecting change.


--edit--
about the mushrooms thing.

I once subscribed to that theory before I realized how ridiculous it was. I used to be really into the whole mind expanding thing and although it produces deeper thoughts, it is still within the confines of what your brain can do. For an ape, it would be a terrifying experience and it would probably never do it again. Also, that's why the fungus even made the secondary metabolite psilocybin: to prevent animals from eating them.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by italkyoulisten]

reply to post by italkyoulisten


yeah, cult behavior is never good especially regarding something with no empirical grounding and quite frightening implications. Personally i like to keep an open mind

an edit about the mushroom thing:

ah, that makes sense. lol. good to know before i submit to the theory

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Kevin_X1]

Once you realize and understand that time is actually cyclical and not linear then Timewave zero will make perfect sense to you. You can look at it as a reflection within a reflection.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being incorrect.
I would really like to know what you don't want accept; trying to discredit McKenna isn't a valid reason to discredit the method.

Originally posted by Estess
Once you realize and understand that time is actually cyclical and not linear then Timewave zero will make perfect sense to you. You can look at it as a reflection within a reflection.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being incorrect.
I would really like to know what you don't want accept; trying to discredit McKenna isn't a valid reason to discredit the method.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being correct.

Originally posted by Kevin_X1

Originally posted by Estess
Once you realize and understand that time is actually cyclical and not linear then Timewave zero will make perfect sense to you. You can look at it as a reflection within a reflection.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being incorrect.
I would really like to know what you don't want accept; trying to discredit McKenna isn't a valid reason to discredit the method.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being correct.

I don't have to, that's up to you to find out

Originally posted by Estess
Once you realize and understand that time is actually cyclical and not linear then Timewave zero will make perfect sense to you. You can look at it as a reflection within a reflection.

I would also like to point out that you don't really give any valid nor scientific explanation for Timewave zero being incorrect.
I would really like to know what you don't want accept; trying to discredit McKenna isn't a valid reason to discredit the method.

There is as little evidence for linear time as cyclical time. Different cultures have different interpretations of time. My interpretation? Perhaps there is no such thing as time, and time is nothing other than a value that we humans have created out of necessity to distinguish the order of past events and to organize future ones? Perhaps there is a such thing as time and we are constantly passing through it. Perhaps instead of being wholly existent at a certain time t, we have temporal parts that exists throughout time rather than in time?

My point is, nobody knows what time is and it is all interpretation. If you were to go back in time and meet yourself, how can you exist at two places at once? Is you from the past and you from the future the same person? Can this event occur? Can John go back in time and kill his grandfather? There are all sorts of answers to these questions and it all depends on your interpretation of time, and how objects exist in time.



Essentially what is happening is this [an analogy].

Consider this picture:


The tree bark formation represents McKenna's timewave theory.

The people in Singapore who believe that it is an incarnation of their monkey god represents those who subscribes to the idea that McKenna's timewave predicts the future. It looks like a monkey so it must be an incarnation of the monkey god.

What I'm saying is that it is not the monkey god, or that McKenna's timewave theory DOESN'T predict the future, and what is happening is pareidolia, or the phenomenon of interpreting random stimuli as significant, i.e. shapes and patterns.

thanks for the insight into the time wave phenomenon. Another thread droned on and on like my classes at school did. This was concise and I thank you for your post.

Still my one question that remains is why the equation or fractal is established in the pattern of a spiral. I understand that the basis is that history is repetitive and so would repeat but why a spiral and not some other more applicable 3d representation that would be exact.

His theory is compelling and like all theories need further development. In that aspect i agree as well and feel that the model should be reworked geometrically in a pattern that would reflect events showing an actual prediction of highs and lows or points.

Not my interest i get no joy out of math i just do it because i am good at doing math. im sure some sociopath somewhere can figure it out and hope they do its worth following up on. I love science and am eternally curious about the world around me and never want to see anything dismissed. if this can work possibly some retooling may be necessary.

yeah, cult behavior is never good especially regarding something with no empirical grounding and quite frightening implications. Personally i like to keep an open mind

Yeh, Mckenna would've agreed with that......he claimed that Timewave Theory was his one original idea...which was generous of him as (IMHO) he had several novel theories...but he read a lot more than me:>

however, I'd like to point out that he did not get the idea after 'peyote + acid' as you wrote above. Please read his book, 'True Hallucinations'.

He also appears in a movie just released

cognitionfactor.net...

best,

Schwann

reply to post by italkyoulisten


Well, OP it is quite clear that you have put in minimal to zero research into your debunking claim of Timewave.

I kindly suggest that you go back to the drawing board and start over.

I honestly don't have the patience to explain the validity of Timewave, and as someone has already kindly pointed out --- that is your job.

Also, you're going to get blasted for this thread, but hey to each his own.

Now, if you are seriously interested in finding truth and knowledge, I will point you in the right direction, as I will link you to several independent sources all validating that time is 100% cyclical and that everything is connected.

I hope that you truly decide to find the truth concerning this, because if not I can promise you that your future will get quite hairy. Best of luck to you.

(By the way the all of the following presentations can be found on the web for free)

Crossing the Event Horizon - by Nassim Haramein

The Hyperdimensional Election of Barack Obama/2012 - by Richard Hoagland

Secrets of the Mayan Calendar - by Ian Lungold

Timeline to 2012 - by Ivan Stein



In addition, I would suggest reading the following books:

"Cycles the Science of Prediction" by Edward R. Dewey (note that President Hoover, who was an engineer himself..employed Dewey to find patterns and cycles in our countries biggest challenges)

Here is an example of how all cycles are related





And here is one more:

"Financial Astrology" - by David Williams

it is said the bible code predicts the future and Isreali's are well aware of the future... these old texts sometimes contains hidden codes... its nothing unusual... but the codes contained in the Talmut and Koran are said to be able to predict the future... I think the Web bot might also be able to predict the future... only time will tell.

and it is a proven fact that your brain and or nervous system is in motion before the action - suggesting the brain is a few micro seconds in the future... than real life. if you need the source I can find it..
summary: The Brain starts reacting before events occur.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by BornPatriot]

And what makes your opinion on the subject any more cridible than Terrance mckenna"s. Also when it comes down to it We still have no idea of how or why us humans began thinking,speaking or whatever it is you consider that separates us from the animal kingdom, in my opinion his theorys have alot of credibility, but it has absolutely no place or bennifit to western science or the percieved history of the human species, socioty Denys reason and truth, we must remember to deny ignorance

So Terence McKenna was "wrong" (even though he himself was slightly skeptical of timewave zero and had very little idea as to what it actually was) and you base this off of....well no argument other than that it was wrong because he tweaked it and continuously did so throughout his life and after his life it still is getting tweaked and changed slightly...and the stoned ape theory which you summarized horribly and haphazardly is wrong again because you say so....

brilliant thread.