MPs to Debate Immediate Election

All MP's Need to be sacked!

Reform of this blatant lack of rules over Expenses or scrap it all together!

Mp's must use thier salary like we the taxpayers do to pay for everything!

Likes the comment from a member with thier little jab at Scotland N/I and Wales (Sarcasm). Think you need to look at how much money the UK Gov stole from Scotland over the last 30 - 40 years, before you go pointing the finger at us in scotland sponging of you lot down south. I have worked since I left school, I pay for my presciptions, I pay for my medical treatment, I pay taxes as much as you do. The notion that all of us in scotland sponge from the taxpayers in England is complete ingorance.

reply to post by budski


We do NOT need to get rid of hereditory peers, they are the only ones that can overrule this corrupt government, labour have already reduced the number and replaced them with life peers, made up of people like that slime bag mandleson (who is part of the government but not even an elected M.P.) and other cronies who have bought their titles with donations to the labour party (and oh boy they have been having a party at our expense). these are just yes men to the government. We need to reinstate more hereditory peers as they have more of the interests of the country at heart as they own most of it AND WILL SAY NO TO LABOUR.

I think it's quite ironic that it is the 2 Nationalist parties who have forced this debate.
That is exactly the reason people will vote for the BNP today; because they will force debate.
Only a very small percentage of those that vote BNP or even UKIP for that matter would actually want to them elected, but Nationalist parties tend to be very steadfast and resolute and demand to be heard.
And the truth of the matter is that we need real debate, not just in Parliament but at every level of society;
Electoral and governemnt process and procedure.
The economy.
Politicians expenses.
Immigration.
Membership of EU.
English Assembly.
Referendums.
etc.

The current system allows the elected government, (elected by a minority of the country), just to carry on doing as they see fit during their term of office regardless of election promises or the interests of their constituents.

I have repeatedly stated on ATS that party politics has failed us miserably.
How anyone can blindly follow any single party is beyond me.
Party alignment for elected MP's should be made illegal.
Potential MP's should stand independantly and put the well being of their constituents first and foremost.
Voting in parliamentary debates would then be down to their own individual opinion and the afore mentioned interests of their constituents rather than following party line blindly.
At election time they would be judged on their performance by their constituents.

Unfortunately career politicians have overran Westminster and they think they have a divine right and should be judged different to us.
They are so removed from everyday people that they think they have done so little wrong and can not comprehend the people's disgust at them.
MP's should be as accountable in their job's as we are in our's, if not more so.
The doing's of MP's should be transparent; they work for us!
All 646 MP's should resign immediately.
The very few good MP's and people's policians would survive.

I should be suprised that there are still people who think there is much difference in the major political parties.
They are all self serving, egotistical, elitist career politicians with very little difference in policies.
Nearly all are public school / Oxbridge educated.
All feed from the same trough.

Not only do we need a General Election but we also need a thorough and honest review and debate of electoral and government process and procedures.
The current party system has failed us miserably.

Oh what I would give for a modern day Cromwell.

[edit on 4/6/09 by Freeborn]

reply to post by yellowbeard


I agree, but would like to see a Upper Chamber to include representatives from the business world, health and educational professionals, and a smattering of independents.
Without any party afifiliations.
Also the party whip should stop. Our MPs should be able to vote with their conscience and for the good of the people who voted them in.

reply to post by yellowbeard


In my opinion, we do.

They are out of touch, non-representative and have only the interests of the party at heart.

A much better idea is the one floated in the post above mine.

Independant thinkers elected by the people to the upper house.

The house of lords is an anachronism, and urgently needs reform - why should someone be qualified to dictate laws based on an accident of birth.

It's a remnant of feudal times and has no place in the modern world.

Originally posted by yellowbeard
reply to post by budski

 

We do NOT need to get rid of hereditory peers, they are the only ones that can overrule this corrupt government, ....

No they are not.
Never under-estimate the power that we, the people, have.

As Joe said;
"Anger can be power, do you know that you can use it!"

The only way I think that the government should be selected is for all 646 members to be selected completely at random, the same as for jury service, and then change a third of them every year. Then you would get every agegroup (from 18 upwards) and every opinion represented, they would only be there for a maximum of three years, give them a good wage for that time and hold their previouse jobs open for them, this would get rid of most of the corruption and a parliament full of people who lie for a living (barristers and solicitors for instance).

Originally posted by Freeborn

Originally posted by yellowbeard
reply to post by budski

 

We do NOT need to get rid of hereditory peers, they are the only ones that can overrule this corrupt government, ....

No they are not.
Never under-estimate the power that we, the people, have.

As Joe said;
"Anger can be power, do you know that you can use it!"

I haven't seen much evidence of people using that power in recent history and if it isn't used soon we won't have any at all.

reply to post by yellowbeard


The Poll Tax Riots



This led to Thatcher's downfall and a complete U-turn.


The riots in Brixton, Handsworth, Toxteth, Chapeltown in 1981 changed policing in this country forever.

I fear that unless measures are taken then this country is approaching such a point, I personally have never known so many people so angry about our politicians and their complete lack of interest in our cares and concerns and their own self-serving attitude.

reply to post by Freeborn


This time it is completely different. No Mp, Government Minister in the current Parliement are trusted now. Due to this expenses scandal. They need to do something to put trust back into the UK Political system. But this I do not see happening in the near future.

We the people want a General Election, the Government should listen tous and call one now. To say this would be devastating to the UK is Scare Mongering at its worst.

As much i regret this situation and Browns obvious lack of authority, i can't forsee a better alternative. Brown has little in the way of leadership skills, but what he does have is experience and a clear grasp of fiscal affairs. If anyone believes the toffee-nosed, born with a silver spoon tories are a viable option then this mess we are in will pale in comparison to whats coming..

I'm split on this issue because at the sametime i believe trust needs to be injected back into politics and the only way this can be done is through an election.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by theblunttruth]

reply to post by Laurauk


I'm not advocating rioting at present, just pointing out that positive action can, and has, changed things and that we may be approaching such times.

I agree whole heartedly that we need a General Election....but we'll just get more of the same....the system has produced this.
We need to abolish party politics as a whole.....we need politicians who are prepared to represent the people and not parties.

Can you honestly say that replacing Brown's lot with Cameron and his lot will make any significant difference to lives of the majority of British people?
They are one and the same with no significant difference whatsoever.

reply to post by theblunttruth


A clear grasp of fiscal affairs???

Borwn took powers away from the Bank of England, brought in a so-called regulatory body in the FSA (which was and is toothless) de-regulated the banking industry, and then blamed someone else when it all went wrong!

He also pissed away the most secure economy inherited by any government, brought in over 157 stealth taxes, created a bloated and mismanaged civil service, and presided over a housing market that was seriously over-inflated and is now in free fall, along with deflation and trying to print more money to spend his way out of trouble.

If you owe thousands on a credit card do you get another credit card to pay that off?
And then another, and another and another?

That's before we even get to the money wasted on useless management in the NHS, quangoes and PC programmes.

This was the same old labour of tax and spend, except in stealth mode.

And you think he has a clear grasp of fiscal affairs????

Just because HE says he has, doesn't make it true

reply to post by Freeborn


No I am not saying replacing Brown with Cameron would resolve the situation, (would probably make the situation worse), but who else is there to choose from Leader of the Liberals, while he does look rather handsome , I still would not vote for any liberal.

Oh and btw I was not implying either that you were provacating Rioting, I am just pointing out that the situtation with the MP's now is alot more worse than it was during the poll tax riots, lets get that clear oks.

Both Houses need reform, re - elected. Or the 2nd house needs done away with altogether.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by Laurauk]

I am hearing strong indications that 10pm tonight, when the polls close, there will be a blood bath. The MPs in question will go public and James Purnell is tempted to "speak out."

Caroline Flint, European Minister and Hazel Blears best friend, is rumoured to be the next minister to resign. Either tonight or tomorrow. Darling has threatened to leave, if he is moved from the Treasury.

reply to post by Freeborn


Yes, I know all about the Poll Tax riots, I'm 44 years old, took part in many protests against it (although non were over policed enough to turn into a riot) and never did pay it, but that was nearly thirty years ago and we're paying more in tax now than we were then. Where's Guy Fawkes when you need him most.

Originally posted by Laurauk
reply to post by Freeborn

 

No I am not saying replacing Brown with Cameron would resolve the situation, (would probably make the situation worse),

So what good would a General Election do?
Without changing the very nature of parliament we just replace one shower of #e with another!
It is the whole party system that needs replacing.
That would enable politicians to act free from party whip etc and put their constituents well being first and foremost.

Oh and btw I was not implying either that you were provacating Rioting,

If it stimulates positive change well.....maybe I am

I am just pointing out that the situtation with the MP's now is alot more worse than it was during the poll tax riots, lets get that clear oks.

Possibly, but what are WE doing about it?

Both Houses need reform, re - elected. Or the 2nd house needs done away with altogether.

Absolutely.
By when and by whom.
I don't see anyone at all pursuing that agenda.
And why not?
Because they are all eating from the same trough and deep down they do not want change.
Sometimes change needs to be forced.
I see little alternative at present.

I have posted this before, we need a new Cromwell to force change through!

Oliver Cromwell's Speech on the Dissolution of the Long Parliament
Given to the House of Commons
20 April 1653

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your
contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell
your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have
no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience
for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den
of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the
whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!"

reply to post by budski


Bud, we are still paying the price for Thatcher's policies!

She sold off almost all council housing without building new one's thus forcing young couples into the private housing sector which in turn forced thouse prices up.
Come the 'credit crunch' then bang....over inflated prices....little money....record reposessions and record number of homeless despite countless empty standing buildings.

Thatcher and her cronies sold off ALL the family silver and as a result ALL utility companies in the UK are foreign owned and as a result are contributing to bleeding the profit out of this country.

Brown is no economic genius by any stretch of the imagination and his obsession with borrowing has indebted this country for decades, however, to blame him and Labour for all our ill's is just wrong.

Both Labour and Conservative are incompetent due to their obsession with following political dogma and party line no matter what.
Further proof if ever needed that party politics has failed us.

Freeborn, you do realise that Political Parties are not officially recognised by parliament and each member is supposed to represent their constituents, but we, the people, allow party politics in the system which was never designed for it in the first place. The Whip system is the same, it isn't a function of parliament, but of the parties themselves.

10pm, Paul Waugh from the Evening Standard, has reported a Cabinet Minister will resign. Word is travelling around Westminster.