The Declaration of Independence 2009

reply to post by Izarith


Cowards and fools? Your ignorance shows. I'm a child of Cubans who lived through the Cuban revolution, I was born in Costa Rica and during my time there things got so bad that people were blowing stuff up, I have the shrapnel scars to prove it. When I say I'm declaring my independence from tyranny I mean it. I thought long and hard about posting this for the very reasons the Founders did it in secret. But the secret eventually got out right? With Blanket surveillance of electronic communications, I felt it would have been more prudent to protect the document and it's principles by making it public as quickly as possible. I'm am not aiming to start a war, I am not going to fire the first shot. This is only a message, and a warning, the people are tired, pissed off, and heavily armed.

I've had to fight for my life all my life, and I've had to claw for my freedom since the day I had the awareness to do so. You are just a kid, sitting at your computer screen, not sacrificing anything for your beliefs. My grandfather spent 11 years as political prisoner in Cuba. My brother, who is an Oath Keeper, is in the Army fighting in Iraq, and soon Afghanistan, My father and mother were subversive elements in the Cuban government for years before their escape in 1979 to Costa Rica. It is in my blood to fight for freedom. To die for it. I'm no damned coward.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Nicely done OP. I think you did a great job of hitting all the major gripes I have....and I applaud you for your intense interest in the Constitution...you know it better than most American citizens and have taken the time to learn it all yourself...which is highly commendable in my opinion.

As you have stated...it's vitally important for people to understand that neither political party has done much of anything to stop our warring nature..or to strip those of great corporate power...after all..our government gave it to them and they continue to do nothing to protect the citizens of this country.

We want nothing but freedom, liberty, and a fighting chance to live a good life. It is being taken away from us and for what? Greed? War? Why exactly do those who watch the news everyday support one side or the other? Because they believe they are always getting the truth?

Everything is corporate owned..all media and almost all major industries all operate under set entities of power and manipulate that power within our government and push laws against us and our own free will.

Unfortunately, as you, myself, and others have stated here many, MANY times...it's going to get worse...much worse. I just don't think people are in the know enough to take a stand....it's going to take much pain for people to understand what has been set at their feet. It will take massive job loss and inflation...which is coming...then I believe that a true "revolution" or "rebirth" of sorts can happen.

/signed

S/F

[edit on 3-6-2009 by David9176]

reply to post by Izarith


First off, if you don't realize the continued disregard of the constitution and freedoms by those in office are already of declaration of war on the people, then there is no hope for you.

As I have stated before, for the states to dissolve their union should it become detrimental to American Liberty, than it is not illegal. This concept of illegality may be in your mind due to the inadequate understanding of the Civil War. The southern states leaving the union was not illegal. And to draw an even more important correlation, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus also. I'm not saying I agree with all the things the south stood for, namely slavery, but the rights of the states is something I do highly support, more so now than ever.

The American people have been at war for at least 7 years now, but under attack off and on for the past 70 years. We as a whole have just been too stupid to either realize it or take action against it.

reply to post by projectvxn


Well if you have not noticed the bill of rights in the Constitution are the first 10 amendments. Ever wonder why? Well obviously not so let me in my 12 year old ideot mind frame explain why.

Do you know what a amendment to the constitution is well obviously not so let me explain in my 12 year old ideot mind frame why.

An amendment to the constitution is made when they want to include something that was not initially included in the constitution. A change.

The reason why our bill of rights are the first ten amendments is because it did not even have a bill of rights. And people found that quite shameful because even the evil Brits had a bill of rights so they amended the constitution ten times.

And no you are not setting a list of grievances you have made a moderate new age version of the Declaration of Independence. John Hancock did not sign a list of grievances he signed a Declaration of Independence based on a list of grievances. The declaration of Independence set the president for laws and taxation that had nothing to do with Briton and in no way had anything to do with the bill of right again the only reason the constitution has ten amendments that we call the bill of rites is because people found it shameful.

"and in it is the reserved the right of the people to declare themselves separate from powers oppressive to the cause of liberty, today that is the Federal Government."

So why make a new one? Whats going on are you seeing things my way now?

TA!! Izzy

reply to post by Izarith


Dude seriously, this isn't my first walk in the park ok? I didn't call you an idiot, I only called you an ignorant kid, which are the traits you are displaying in post after post. You say things like Hancock would slit my throat, that we're all cowards for trying to get something started. you are continuously displaying false points of view on the character of people you don't even know. We call that a troll around these here part(Insert twang here.)

As far as why I wrote it? We have NO representation in Congress or anywhere in the Federal Government at this point. That's why. And for that reason the people signing the petition in my signature(That I didn't create by the way) are declaring their separation from an entity with assumed authority.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.

The Founding Fathers were BRITISH CITIZENS. They did not take lightly separating from the Crown. As the Crown ceased to consider in earnest the interests of the Colonies, and even took steps to terrorize the citizens of the colonies. The Federal government is currently expanding it's hold over sovereign states, and over free people. A free people who wish to REMAIN FREE must separate from the powers that are working to enslave them. If you really are an avid study of history then you have a seriously skewed view of what the Constitution and the Declaration was really all about.

List of Grievances in the Declaration. some may sound familiar to you if you've been paying attention the last 20 years:

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

Tax policy huh? maybe you should read more.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by Izarith

 

First off, if you don't realize the continued disregard of the constitution and freedoms by those in office are already of declaration of war on the people, then there is no hope for you.

As I have stated before, for the states to dissolve their union should it become detrimental to American Liberty, than it is not illegal. This concept of illegality may be in your mind due to the inadequate understanding of the Civil War. The southern states leaving the union was not illegal. And to draw an even more important correlation, Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus also. I'm not saying I agree with all the things the south stood for, namely slavery, but the rights of the states is something I do highly support, more so now than ever.

The American people have been at war for at least 7 years now, but under attack off and on for the past 70 years. We as a whole have just been too stupid to either realize it or take action against it.

I understand what you are saying, but you are not understanding the world you live in. No one has taken anything away from the American people, The American people have gladly given it all way. They will do this again, and again, and again just like you are trying to give away the old Declaration of Independence for a moderate new one. I say this because you do not have financial backing from France to fund a war so I am sure you are making a symbol. But I'm asking why!! we all ready have a pretty dame good one. There is no war between government nor will there be until people get hungry and start staving. But even in those few who do rise up they will be killed off. The others will get their food from the wolfs mouth and everything will be at peace. But if you use the current system to backtrack all the crap you gave away you might make it. I'm just saying you can't do what the founding fathers did with out backing from another country but you can still try to use the system they put in play.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Izarith

 

Dude seriously, this isn't my first walk in the park ok? I didn't call you an idiot, I only called you an ignorant kid, which are the traits you are displaying in post after post. You say things like Hancock would slit my throat, that we're all cowards for trying to get something started. you are continuously displaying false points of view on the character of people you don't even know. We call that a troll around these here part(Insert twang here.)

Why don't you try answering my post instead of calling me a troll?

Is it because you don't know why Hancock's signed his name so big?

Or is it because you did not know that the constitution was not created with a bill of rites?

Look it up read about the people I'm talking about and then call me a troll.

Hancock was a killer for Washington, Washington was a total self righteous fanatic who would leave you trembling in your shows if you dropped a piece of paper on the floor during a meeting. Ben Frank hated the Bald Eagle and thought it was a creature of poor quality. And they all wanted to make money. But they created a constitution that is really bad but a hell of a lot better than the rest with the exception of the articles of confederation.

reply to post by Izarith


*Facepalm.*

All I can say is that if you feel that this Declaration is overcoming your beloved old document and making us look like fools, then you can easily just step away and not look back. Go hide behind your first Declaration and find us in a couple years. We will see which makes the bigger difference.



As for staying on topic, Izarith:

What you are not understanding, is that while we have "given" our rights away to this government, it was not of our own free will. It wasn't simply that one day we decided to forget our rights and throw them all to the hounds. This has been years and years of deceit, lies, falsehoods, and promises of protection that have lead the people to do this.

Not only that, but it required brainwashing and conditioning in the form of television and the mass media for people to finally give away what could be the last strings of freedom.

If you have ever written to a senator or government official, how many times has it made a difference? How many times have the government listened to our protests and did nothing? How many times have we been misrepresented without our permission? The lists go on and on.

What you fail to come to terms with is the fact that having a new Declaration does NOT, in any way, shape, or form, undermine our initial Declaration of Independence. Have you even read it? Do you not realize that it is a document declaring our freedom from the tyranny of the British government? How does that have ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with what we are facing today?

There are two lines that can hold just as true today as they did back then, clones of the British government and our federal today:

"They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends."



The time of peaceful talks is over. This, my friend, is the time for action. While this is not the "call for war" that you believe it to be, it is certainly a "final warning" so to speak going out to the federal government. If nothing at all, it will certainly open their eyes that we the people are not deaf, dumb, and subservient as they believe us to be.

It is up to them, in that moment of truth to decide, much as the British Crown had to decide back then.

Do we give them their freedom and let them be?

or

Do we go to a war within to quell the masses?



I can only pray for the former.





Sign away folks.

Declaration of Independence 2009 Petition

The declaration of independence was a precedent to the Bill of Rights. They couldn't legally draft a Bill of Rights because the 13 colonies were operation under BRITISH LAW and all the rights that came with that. After a while, the King began to violate what British Colonists believed to be their sole rights as Britons. There was no way to set and re-affirm individual rights until AFTER a separation from the crown had been legally declared and sent to the King. The constitution was only a preliminary framework before the Declaration. As the Declaration references its' violations within it's content. You have your time frames and reasoning seriously screwed.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by Izarith
I understand what you are saying, but you are not understanding the world you live in. No one has taken anything away from the American people, The American people have gladly given it all way. They will do this again, and again, and again just like you are trying to give away the old Declaration of Independence for a moderate new one. I say this because you do not have financial backing from France to fund a war so I am sure you are making a symbol. But I'm asking why!! we all ready have a pretty dame good one. There is no war between government nor will there be until people get hungry and start staving. But even in those few who do rise up they will be killed off. The others will get their food from the wolfs mouth and everything will be at peace. But if you use the current system to backtrack all the crap you gave away you might make it. I'm just saying you can't do what the founding fathers did with out backing from another country but you can still try to use the system they put in play.

Ok, I am starting to understand some of your thinking, although it is almost completely wrong.

You are partially right when you say it has not been taken away from the American people, but given away. Yes, many of our rights and freedoms have been given away by the people, but mostly though deception.

Whereas you think the system is still in place to rectify the situation, I and many others say that the system, through dual fault of the people and those in office, is in a state as only to benefit those in power.

Additionally, while you assume that this new declaration sets the people against the government, in actuality, I say it dissolves the contract binding the states to one another, allowing the people to govern themselves at the state level without the interference, regulation, taxation and limitations on freedom being imposed by the federal government. No war needed.

Ideally the states (via congress) would be able to return the state of the Union to a more free and independent stance as intended by the founders, but there are so many political, corporate and foreign hands in the pot, it cannot.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by Wolf321]

reply to post by projectvxn


Dude come on are you being serious here?

Showing the Declaration of independence as an argument against me saying that it was made so the founding fathers could pass laws and taxes with out having them go to the king?

Let me say this again the main way they got the people to revolt was by using the fact that Briton was charging people a spirit tax. Right after the revolution was won by France for our side the founding fathers passes those pressing issues they were grieving about to impose a spirit tax on the people who put their lives on the line for the new independent states.

You know what I now think John Hancock would have cloned you and would have made the entire country full you lol. Don't ask why you would not get the joke.

The founding fathers were a bunch of pirates!!

But they made a Tortuga where everyone had a chance at the plunder but they also made it so the people could enslave themselves if they wanted to. So have fun doing just that.

TA!! Izzy.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by Izarith]

reply to post by Izarith


I agree that passing laws and levying REPRESENTED taxes were paramount reasons for the Declaration in the First place, but the list of grievances are not based on those tenets alone. There are a lot of immoral and tyrannical behavior listed that prompted widespread support. Like keeping troops among citizens in times of peace, effectively creating a military police state. And the theft of goods and money from the public treasury, cutting the colonies off from trade around the world, stifling immigration, all of which hurt the colonies economically, but economics are important to the stability of a nation and important to the prosperity of life. You are cheapening the history behind these revolutionary documents and events by reducing the founding fathers to unthinking spiritually corrupt people who just wanted the gold for their pockets. And this just isn't true.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by projectvxn
The declaration of independence was a precedent to the Bill of Rights. They couldn't legally draft a Bill of Rights because the 13 colonies were operation under BRITISH LAW and all the rights that came with that. After a while, the King began to violate what British Colonists believed to be their sole rights as Britons. There was no way to set and re-affirm individual rights until AFTER a separation from the crown had been legally declared and sent to the King. The constitution was only a preliminary framework before the Declaration. As the Declaration references its' violations within it's content. You have your time frames and reasoning seriously screwed.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Do you think the founding fathers invented the bill of rites?

No I don't have my time references messed up it's self explanatory this is how it happened.

Secret meeting....

Some killing....

Secret meetings....

Some more killing....

Frame work for the constitution and final touches to the Declaration of independence while Ben Frank was off in france having sex all over the place and convincing Frances to fight with us.

Declaration Of Independence signed and sent.

Secret meetings with a lot of killings...

War while they were framing the constitution.

War...

War...

The constitution is made but no one wants to sign till it has a bill of rights...

More killings and secret meeting..

They make ten amendments to the constitution so the states will sign along with other addendums.

And her we are now trying to destroy all that hard work up with new crap made by people on ATS LOL because we some how paradoxically were enslaved by our own stupidity against our freewill if that is even logically and philosophicly possible.

TA!! Izzy

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Izarith

 

I agree that passing laws and levying REPRESENTED taxes were paramount reasons for the Declaration in the First place, but the list of grievances are not based on those tenets alone. There are a lot of immoral and tyrannical behavior listed that prompted widespread support. Like keeping troops among citizens in times of peace, effectively creating a military police state. And the theft of goods and money from the public treasury, cutting the colonies off from trade around the world, stifling immigration, all of which hurt the colonies economically, but economics are important to the stability of a nation and important to the prosperity of life. You are cheapening the history behind these revolutionary documents and events by reducing the founding fathers to unthinking spiritually corrupt people who just wanted the gold for their pockets. And this just isn't true.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 3-6-2009 by projectvxn]

Yes I understand 100% but you do all that with laws and taxes.

What i am saying is that they kind forgot about a bill of rites and that is why we don't have one what we have are ten amendments to the constitution that we call the bill for rites.

reply to post by Izarith


I wrote it in the spirit of the principles of the Original Declaration. I fail to see how what I have written destroys the tenets of the original and the purpose of the original. Every word I wrote was in support of the Constitution and the bill of Rights, and gives respect to the efforts and works of the Founding Fathers by reaffirming my commitment to freedom and all the responsibilities that comes with it.

Nice work.
Star and flag

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by Izarith
I understand what you are saying, but you are not understanding the world you live in. No one has taken anything away from the American people, The American people have gladly given it all way. They will do this again, and again, and again just like you are trying to give away the old Declaration of Independence for a moderate new one. I say this because you do not have financial backing from France to fund a war so I am sure you are making a symbol. But I'm asking why!! we all ready have a pretty dame good one. There is no war between government nor will there be until people get hungry and start staving. But even in those few who do rise up they will be killed off. The others will get their food from the wolfs mouth and everything will be at peace. But if you use the current system to backtrack all the crap you gave away you might make it. I'm just saying you can't do what the founding fathers did with out backing from another country but you can still try to use the system they put in play.

Ok, I am starting to understand some of your thinking, although it is almost completely wrong.

You are partially right when you say it has not been taken away from the American people, but given away. Yes, many of our rights and freedoms have been given away by the people, but mostly though deception.

Whereas you think the system is still in place to rectify the situation, I and many others say that the system, through dual fault of the people and those in office, is in a state as only to benefit those in power.

Additionally, while you assume that this new declaration sets the people against the government, in actuality, I say it dissolves the contract binding the states to one another, allowing the people to govern themselves at the state level without the interference, regulation, taxation and limitations on freedom being imposed by the federal government. No war needed.

Ideally the states (via congress) would be able to return the state of the Union to a more free and independent stance as intended by the founders, but there are so many political, corporate and foreign hands in the pot, it cannot.


[edit on 3-6-2009 by Wolf321]

States in America are begging for money from China and India just so your trash can get picked up.

Even if you get all the people from a whole state to go along with you once their water goes out and they have to poop in the back yard let alone they can't buy food at wall mart you numbers will be significantly reduces if you don't bail yourself.

They have you by the balls!!!

You really did not think this through did you.

reply to post by Izarith


So what is just because we are in debt and the feds are helping destroy the nation, that we should just not do or say anything about it? Because it's overwhelming? We only have one life, but our children will bear the load after we're dead and gone, that's worth the sacrifice, whether you believe so or not is not relevant, sacrifice is obviously not for you.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Izarith

 

I wrote it in the spirit of the principles of the Original Declaration. I fail to see how what I have written destroys the tenets of the original and the purpose of the original. Every word I wrote was in support of the Constitution and the bill of Rights, and gives respect to the efforts and works of the Founding Fathers by reaffirming my commitment to freedom and all the responsibilities that comes with it.

Hey man like I said I'm just being honest.

You have plenty of people her who think you are doing a great job.

I unfortunately think you are doing the complete opposite of what you think you are doing that all. I only said those things about John Hancock because it is what I honestly picture him doing if he read what you have written, this is based on what i have read about him. What else should i do lie to you?

Originally posted by Izarith
Even if you get all the people from a whole state to go along with you once their water goes out and they have to poop in the back yard let alone they can't buy food at wall mart you numbers will be significantly reduces if you don't bail yourself.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

How do you get the waters stop flowing and pooping in the yard from sovereign States?

I don't think anyone here will be able to make you understand what this declaration means, represents, the gravity of the situation with the current state of the union, or what is needed or could be accomplished through this.

You have not been able to present any argument or evidence for keeping things the way they are, or how they can realistically be changed for the better.