No need to change motoroil

While reading the article at the website at Geet about Paul Pantone being free again, some interesting headline caught my interest....

"Henk De Groot, ex-ceo of Castrol in Holland, claims that changing motoroil every 10-20-30.000 km is just one big fraud."

He claims that cars do not need to change motoroil, at least not for several hundreds of thousands of kilometers.
He has done some succesful tests with companies, running the complete fleet in this way, saving massive amounts of money.
To obtain the best results, they have mounted a chip to control the oil's quality on the stick to control the oil-level.
It is only necessary to check the level on regular times.

Big companies making million-dollar profits, and even government, who has invested lots of money in recycling, are trying to keep him quiet.
There is alot of profit involved, and they dont want us to know.
People of the government who have interest in a better environment, replied him like this : "we have an interest in recycling waste, not preventing it".

You can read the full article at the Geet-website : www.geet.nl...

Sorry, but it is in dutch, i just wanted to hear some of your expert-opinions on this topic.
Is there any possibility that what this guy claims is true ?
Or is it just another imposter, after making profits for many years with oil, now claiming to see the light ?

Please pardon this crude (no pun intended) analogy. Imagine having intercourse with the aid of some mineral oil; now add 10% silica sand. How does that feel any different? The author may have a vested interest in convincing others to destroy their vehicles prematurely for whatever reason/s. Who wants to test the theory on a pristine engine? Maybe many have already and have realized too late that they would've saved money had they appretiated conventional wisdom. There is a radio show called " Car Talk " that could probably address this issue if you could find them. They had one episode where they were in contact with a guy while he was driving to ( I think ) his 1,000,000th mile: whatever it was it was phenominal and I'd bet that this would be attributed to frequent oil and filter changes along with routine maintenance. If you spend 30k for a new vehicle it's less expensive to keep it maintained to last twice as long than it'll probably ever be to buy new again at a sooner time without maintenance, especially if you can do the work yourself...that's how to save some bucks for sure! Thanks for the tip, there could be something to it afterall?

A friend of mine tested this theory once. He had a brand new vehicle and never changed the oil. It made it 36,000 miles before the engine seized.

reply to post by Karlhungis



Hmmmm.. I own a 1987 crown vic... and sad to say I am very negligent about my car maintenance. It seems to run just fine despite only getting an oil change once every 5000+ miles (yeah I know I'm bad)

I do wonder about this oil theory...here...but one would want to continue changing oil filters yes?

What a ridiculous thing to do.

It might make sense if you did it with one of those cheap nasty Chinese/Indian/Korean built cars that barely last for 200,000km anyway.

But to not change the oil, ESPECIALLY on a brand new car is madness! Warranty will be voided because you didn't service the car properly so when the engine seizes, you'll be stuck with a very expensive chunk of steel in your driveway.

reply to post by titorite


5000 miles is not that negligent. Never changing it in 36,000 is.


Look at your owners manual and it will tell you to change your oil every 5 or 6k I believe. I know that I have never owned a car that the owners manual called for every 2000 miles. So, there is "some" truth to this conspiracy. As in, there seems to be an effort to manipulate people into changing more frequently than they should but you still need to change it on occasion. Just not as frequent as Oilcan Henry's would like you to.

reply to post by Chadwickus

Trust me, I am not a fan of what he did. I am just saying that he did it and this was the result.

reply to post by Karlhungis


I bet he won't make the same mistake again.

Most car enthusiasts will tell you to change your oil as often as practical, the amount of impurities that get into the oil is astounding.

Having pulled a few engines apart, I've seen what not changing the oil can do.




[edit on 31/5/09 by Chadwickus]

Meh. Sounds like this guy got out of the oil industry and into the car industry and now wants you as a steady customer.

Car engines get a lot of punishment and stress and demand regular maintenance and changing your oil filter more frequently and your oil on a reasonable schedule is simply sound practice, as well as protecting your warranty. Now that warranty demands a conservative approach, but I don't see a conspiracy to defraud here.

I once owned a '66 Mustang and had to have the engine rebuilt--it had gone 120,000 miles but I believe it had rolled over and was actually 230,000--and you bet you don't want to have do deal with that. It's expensive and frankly not worth it except for exceptional classics such as this. Personal proof, I could stretch out the day of reckoning for that overhaul by frequent oil changes--the engine was grinding itself up, but you could keep it running just with that.

This is hard to believe.

New engine... Usually needs new oil due to wear/bedding in of moving engine parts. The bedding in will result in tiny fragments of metal in the oil, these can accumulate and cause daage to pistons and also various blockages.

Old engine... apart from the fact that oil will burn away in older cars (eaning regular changing is inevitable) there is also the problem of rubbish that akes it past the air filters and amounts of carbon that will circulte and mix with the oil.

I'm no mechanic but I have changed oil on cars of all ages. My advice to the people would be buy the oil because you may damage your car BUT if you have a deisel start running it on cooking oil... it really works. Takes soe very minor prep but works.

I am running Amsoil synthtic oil and filter in my vehicles that doesn't require an oil change for 25,000 miles,although I used to change oil every 3 months,this is supposedly guareteed not to break down viscosity,I have 4 k on the change,keep wanting to go to a Jiffy lube

When you change your oil, you only have to look at the old oil to see why it needs changing.

I was going to write a long post, but this web page explains everything.

The Engine Oil Bible

It also seemed logical to me that when you buy a new car, the oil has to be changed due to the metal particals after let's say 5.000 miles or so.

But the guy never said a car doesn't need any service. He just claims there is no need to fill it at every service with new oil.
New filters, a general check-up, no problem.
But if your car gets equipped with a device that actually warns you when the oil loses it's specific lubrification qualities, and only then it requires a new quantity of fresh oil, or maybe just some extra additives ?
Just imagine how much oil that would save us ?

Somewhere along the dutch text, it says that when the oil becomes a little thicker and turns black, it doesn't mean it loses it's qualities.....

At my garage also, they advise me to come in for service every 5.000 to 7.500 kilometers. If you check the manual it says only to do so every 30.000 km.
And they usually scare people by saying they will lose there guarantee if they don't follow instructions properly.

If his claims are true, then the servicepoints and the producers of oil would have the most benefit for us to keep him quiet.

Just imagine the enormous quantities of oil it would save the world, now everybody is starting to think a little more "greenish", and worrying about "global warming".
I mean, this would not even harm our wallet, in fact we would even save money from it.

Guess it all sounds a little to good doesn't it....

Well i ain't the one to try it out, cause a car is a way too expensive toy to fool around with it.

First oil change is the most important. After 1-2k miles is prudent to get the initialshavings out. After that every 10-12k is probably sufficient as long as you use a quality oil. I actually change it twice on the same day every 10K. After the first change I drive it around to heat it up and get any excess stuff out. Then I change it again. Neighbors think i am crazy but my cars run great.

The key is to get any buildup out of there before it causes problems.

In order for the idea of not changing oil for long periods of time to work, you would first have to have a flawlessly build combustion engine. I do alot of performance work on my car, my sons, and friends. My car has several performance mods including nitrous. YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR OIL..!!!

First of all the rings that seal the pistons to the motor block ARE NOT perfect. This causes blow by into the crank shaft case. This blow by consist of any contaminants that may be in the combustion chamber. The contaminants consist of carbon build up to metal fragments.

Second of all if you want to see what changing your oil filter does than either get it flow tested after you change it or just get a magnetic drain plug for your oil pan. You will be shocked when you find out how much metal shows up on the magnetic plug.

The oil system not only lubricates but acts a a filtering agengt to get impurities out of the engine. The filter for the most part can catch all of them but not all of them by any means. If you do not change the oil or filter then all you are doing is cycling metal fragments and impurities back through your motor and it's bearings. Bearings do not like metal fragments.

A person would be foolish not to change their oil.

I just wonder if people who put out this type of 'knowledge' live by their own words? To put this in perspective, I ride a Suzuki motorcycle, and one day I pulled up to the pump for some gas, and a guy in a Harley Davidson t-shirt told me how crappy rice cycles are, and I should get a Harley. I asked him which model he rides, and he told me he didn't have a motorcycle. I just shook my head, got on my Suzuki, and rode away. Whenever I hear someone volunteering 'knowledge' like this, I usually just shake my head, and pity their offspring.

I semi-agree to the OP in that we don't change oil on schedule, it usually takes longer!

But I could say, there's a noticeable difference after the oil change - stronger acceleration!!

You may save on oil, but you increase on emissions by making the engine work harder. I can't be sure about reliability, we've only driven Japanese cars, Mitsubishi and Toyota, world famous for legendary reliability at least when it comes to engines...

This is absolutely true and everyone arguing it is buying right into the big lie about the oil changes he is talking about. This is one that always amazes me how people don't know this. Every mechanic, car expert, etc. says you have to change it all the time...........

Not at all it's a huge lie. They say you should change it every 3,000-5,000 miles depending on the engine type, the age of the car, how many miles the engine has, the type of oil etc. But the truth is that you can run the car probably 5-6 times that between an oil change with no problem.

The oil change thing is just a bunch of nonsense. I've driven multiple cares 15-20,000 maybe even more miles and never changed the oil and not once had a problem.





[edit on 1-6-2009 by Red Cloak]

I have a 1994 Toyota Camry that has never had any major maintenance done to any part of the vehicle, much less the engine. From May 2008 to March 2009, I didn't change the oil. My car racked up 7,000+ miles in that time - thanks in large part to a move from Michigan to Texas - and it was perfectly fine. Even when I did eventually get it changed, there was absolutely no noticeable difference in the way it ran.

Japanese vehicles are known for being well made and lasting long, and my car, despite it's age and miles, has proved that to me, so I suppose that could be the reason for the absence of noticeable improvement after the oil change. But even if that is the case, I still don't buy in to this "3 months, 3,000 miles" nonsense that is jammed down our throats by the auto maintenance industry.

Every 3000 miles does seem unnecessarily frequent with modern engines and lubricants. Back in the 60s it was recommended to change oil every 1000 miles :O but the oils and engines of those days were not up to today's standards.

We must bear in mind that there's more to engine oil than just oil and it contains a variety of additives for specific purposes for reducing cold start friction, maintaining viscosity, reducing blow-by and detergents to bind carbon particles. These additives don't function forever though and the first signs of degraded oil effectiveness are in colour (detergents just about saturated) and loss of viscosity which will lead to worse bearing wear & tear. A clogged oil filter will initially produce a reduction in oil pressure but once the clogging gets bad enough the safety bypass valve in the oil pump will open allowing unfiltered oil to be forced into the main and big end bearings (this is very bad btw).

The manufacturers recommended change interval for my car is approx 10000 miles or roughly once a year in my case which seems reasonable and the oil is in very good condition with that time but viscosity is noticably lower than fresh oil. As the engine wears the cylinder walls and rings will be the first cause of trouble (blow-by) which causes rapid contamination and will consequently require more frequent changes of oil and oil filter to get maximum life out of the engine before an overhaul is necessary.

I had my previous car for 30 years with just one major engine overhaul (I do all my own maintenance).

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Pilgrum]