For Believers

reply to post by SlayerRock

i dont consider peoples stories or experiences to be evidence as im sure they are all fake and mostly liars.

If you want to keep the conversation friendly, don't call me a liar...please. Just because you don't believe, doesn't make my experiences fake.

From: ucanneverdie

i never understood why people needed scientific evidence for something that has nothing to do with science. its like trying to build a rocket by praying, its two completley different things

I agree.

reply to post by dannyfal


What malarkey. Religion does not self-doubt. it does not seek out mistakes within itself and repair them. it certainly makes no effort to expand its own body of information. Science does, however. Science is the process of gathering evidence and developing an idea of what the evidence means via a rigorous process of elimination.

You have to be pretty damn dim to equate the two.

Originally posted by SlayerRock


can anyone give me any scientific evidence that ghosts could exist?

Hi SlayerRock. It's been my experience that someone like you claim to be will never be convinced unless someone perceived to be a scientist can explain it to you. There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make those who do see or experience something liars.

I've had experiences I can't explain that have convinced me there's more to the paranormal claims than meets the eyes. On the other hand, I've believed what science has told us is fact, only to have those claims proven wrong or changed.

My view of Science is that it's a "Best Guess" with the information available today. Examples are, 'the world is flat', travel at speeds over 35mph is impossible because the air would be sucked from your lungs, Mars has canals, Pluto is a Planet. This last one really bothers me because on of the 3 factors to be a planet is that it must have cleared it's orbital path, and since Pluto shares it's path with Neptune, it can't be a planet, but why then is Neptune still a planet.

And do we really believe that 97 percent of DNA is "Junk"? I stand behind my belief that scientist are just really good guessers or worse, followers. And maybe, some day, someone who did believe will establish enough evidence to convince the scientific world and those like yourself.

How can there be so many people who claim to be haunted, and end up with physical, emotional, and psychological trauma from encounters with paranormal entities, and have it all be fake? Sorry, but we can't all be either lying or psychotic. What you have to find is something where more than one person has experienced something, and none of them having anything to do with eachother except sharing the same instance, in the same place, though not necessarily at the same time. You also HAVE to keep an open mind about these things, or you'll NEVER experience anything!

I'll tell you, I HAVE experienced paranormal phenomena. I'm not lying, and I'm not psychotic. My family has seen some of the same things I have, too. All but one of my friends have experienced the spirits in my house. I don't have evidence to back it up, as I don't have the tools to record such evidence. The spirits in my house don't show up in photos. I should have taken a photo of the bruise I once recieved from a spirit in my house, but I didn't own a digital camera back then, and film was expensive to me, as I was a teen. The bruise was in the shape of a hand, and it was around my upper arm, done in a way that I could NOT have done myself. Besides, the handprint was much larger than my own. Then again, a skeptic could say that I was just abused or grabbed roughly by someone corporeal, like my dad, but the truth is that no one did. I was up late watching SNL, everyone else was asleep, and I felt someone or something grab my arm with a crushing grip, and twist it so that I bent forward. I pleaded for whoever it was to let go. Fortunately whatever it was let go once I started praying. I have many other stories of things happening with no explanation, but have no evidence to back it up. Does that make me a liar? No. Does that make me crazy? No. Does it make me irrational? Not even. Does it make me unintelligent? Not in the slightest.

Skeptics come up with the most outrageous ways to explain something away. Sometimes there is no natural explanation, but a skeptic will ALWAYS explain it away, even when there IS evidence to the contrary, and the person who the experience happened to is genuine. People are terrified out of their homes, and skeptics will laugh as they watch it happen on TV, thinking it's a bunch of parlour tricks.

What I'm trying to say is: keep an open mind, and don't be too judgemental, or you won't experience anything. People who aren't open, completely shut themselves off from being able to experience anything.

A few sites about Science and the paranormal:
www.williamjames.com...
www.rhine.org...
wiki.answers.com...

I recommend this site, the articles on it, and the forum: www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com...
I really like this article, which explains why skeptics should keep an open mind:
www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com...

There's a new forum that's been recommended to me here: www.psiro.com...

And, of course, some great people who investigate the scientific AND spiritual side of things here: forums.pennstateprs.com...
Oh, and keep in mind that their TV show is only 23 minutes of a 3-4 day investigation. They don't have time to show all of the evidence and debunking, but they have helped A LOT of people.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hey WalkingFox...
if you read my second post I say how i should've used the word "belief system" instead of the word religion. i am aware of the differences between science and religion i was just comparing how both tend to be close minded and only look for answers in one area. when they should be looking EVERYWHERE for answers. you will find the wrong answers if you don't ask the right questions.

i guess we'll have to agree to disagree

reply to post by SlayerRock


By being human u are illogical and irrational, and life is for the most part random.

reply to post by SlayerRock

I find that your views remind me of myself when I was a young man, and they reflect what the majority of people on Planet Earth think, so you are in good company.

About 35 years ago, I badly injured my back; the problem wasn't visible but I was in bad pain, and couldn't walk properly, and the medics couldn't help me. A co-worker offered to do some Spiritual Healing, you know where they place hands on you.

WTF I thought, I was so desperate that I agreed, and with a few treatments it was cured, amazingly. That started off a train of events where I was forced to confront issues to do with the very paranormal things I thought were a load of bunk. If it seemed right to me, it was very likely true, as judged by my intuition, not my brain.

I don't want to try and convince you of anything, and if you want to believe what you do currently, that's just fine, ain't it? But, do yourself a favour (favor), don't shut yourself off from considering these things you don't believe. If you were able to keep a truly open mind, free of religious bias, and the 'It can't be right, can it?' kind of bias, you may make some wonderful discoveries which will be life changing events.

Don't look for answers from conventional science, as they are so busy trying to disprove things, that they don't tend look for the truth of the 'paranormal' in the right places. Spiritual Science is a different matter though.

Either way, the best of good luck to you!!

thanks everyone for your replies. i appreciate you posting your opinions and experiences.
one thing i am confused about is that a number of you have said that until i open my mind then i will never have a paranormal experience. i thought i mentioned in my first post that i HAVE had several experiences very similar to yours. its just that i believe them to have rational explanations lol

i understand why you say that science is a religion but i disagree on the grounds that i dont think science has all the answers or that its omnipotent, which differs from religion

sorry if i offended anyone btw

I find science fascinating. One of the things I really like about it is that it is constantly readjusting as more information becomes available. Research being a process rather than a result. As mentioned above, there were some dubious claims made by scientists in days gone by that have been completely re-evaluated.

I remember learning is school that the larger dinosaurs were unable to support their own weight and consequently lived in swamps....
How silly that seems now.

Science hasn't finished with the paranormal and although much information exists regarding spirit contact and communication (by means other than just clairvoyants/mediums), there are still much data to be analyzed.

Proof? Well, I would hazard that proof to you is going to be something that makes it through your filters. These filters are different for everyone, so I cannot say what will or won't impress you.

First, Science and religion and in fact two of the same breed.....and should be together on the same team, so to speak. Science looks for answers in the reality realm and Religion looks for answers in both the reality and spiritual realms.
Not that I'm some regilious fundamentalist, one the contrary, I'm more so a spiritualist looking for answers to my own experiences. Having Science or religion answer my own experences is not proof, it's conformation. I have several experiences to the fact that the spirit world is alive and well, but for me to use them as proof is like the saying "If a tree fell in the forest and no one was their would it make a sound"?
Like the previous poster said, don't close your mind or think there are rational explainations for everything that happens.....there just isn't

Originally posted by SlayerRock
... i thought i mentioned in my first post that i HAVE had several experiences very similar to yours. its just that i believe them to have rational explanations lol...

I don't see where you mentioned your own experiences in your first post, but that's not what I'm responding too. You said that you believe your experiences have rational explanations. So my question is do you know what the causes were? Can you give us an example of the situation and then the explanation. Or are you saying that you believe there is a rational explanation, but you just don't know what it is at present?

If it's the latter, I believe that eventually, most paranormal happenings will be defined and therefore become simply "normal."

But if it's the former, I'd like to hear what happened and what you found out.

Thanks