Criminals don't visit gun shows

From the Force Science Research Center:

From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.

Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:

Weapon Choice:

Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice," the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun "because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being."

Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law--federal, state or local--that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."

Interesting to note that NONE of the criminal shooters got their gun at a gun show.

I don't think it's possible to extrapolate that everyone who visits a gun show is a good guy, or that every gun purchased at a gun show will always be used lawfully. However, I think all the effort and money being spent on 'gun show loopholes' and 'assault weapon bans' would be much more effective if spent on education and enforcement.

My state is one of only two that disallows concealed carry in any form. Having spent the first 2/3 of my life in Texas and the last 1/3 here (IL) it's always interesting to me how hard it is to pick out a concealed-carrier at home (TX) and how easy it is to pick out the "prints" on nefarious characters here that laugh at the law.

reply to post by emsed1


It doesn't surprise me. Studies like this are released all the time, but they get ignored. Most democrats dont know that there is a 4:1involving gun incidents.

the 4 being the rate at which guns are used defensively, and the 1 being the rate at which guns are used in a crime.

Which of course implys that, every gun you see in a gun store is four times likely to save a life than take a life.

There is also the fact that; disarming civilians causes gun crime to spike.
I believe the austrailians loosened their laws regarding guns, because they realized that total bans (except for people like farmers) don't really work.

Most criminals don't go to gun shows because if they are felons just walking in the door would get them jail time.

Plus the rumors on the street for years has been that the cops film everyone entering gun shows just to bust felons that do go to gun shows.

I know from a cop in Reno Nevada that they do just that. So does Las Vegas

While some felons from Calif might slip through the Reno cops do get a number of Nevada felons by doing this.

As facial recognition software gets better a lot more police departments will be video taping the people entering gun shows just to catch felons.

Reno and Las Vegas just happens to be ahead of other departments because most of the casinos use the same software to stop banned gamblers.

Most gun shows have a large number of undercover cops and ATF personal wondering around.

Very very very few illegal gun sales happen in the gun shows. to many undercover cops and ATF for the dealers to take a chance.

Most are between non dealers out side in the parking lots.

I have tried to buy guns at nevada gun shows and never could because i was from Calif.

reply to post by emsed1


When guns were banned in the UK the first year, violent home invasions went up 300%. It's been proven that an unarmed populace has no means to defend it self and the criminals and or government takes advantage. The fact that they bring up gun shows is propaganda in my opinion. Passing stricter gun laws and regulations plays mostly in favor of criminals that get there weapons from the black market.

In America, we are armed to the teeth, thank God. In my opinion it's one of the last rights that hasn't been trampled on.

Recently my uncle had a armed robber break into his home. My uncle prides himself with the fact he lived a quite and peaceful life but boy is he stubborn. When he refused to open his safe this man shot and almost killed my uncle. Now what would happen if my uncle perhaps had a weapon in his home? Maybe it wouldn't of turned out the way it did, maybe not. The point is that weapons are for self defense for the honest citizen, the criminals will get there weapons any way they can, out side of normal channels.

If a guy like me can figure this out, why can't our government and media? I feel there is an agenda to erode our 2nd Amendment but they know before they take our rights away it must have popular support. So we see all the hype and propaganda on the news, the Obama administration backing stricter gun regulation. Even one member said we must ban assault weapons because the problems in Mexico.

Really, as a law abiding citizen, has the world gone retarded and mad? Or can we assume something more sinister is at work here?

[edit on 21-6-2009 by oconnection]

Does anyone really believe that our leaders don't know these facts and statistics. They just don't care. They don't care if a criminal gets an illegal gun and kills you. They don't care if guns save more lives than they take.

What they do care about it someday having all those guns pointed towards them because of their corruption.

Gun control is about control, not guns.

Originally posted by Primordial


Gun control is about control, not guns.

Very well put.

That should be on a bumper sticker and t-shirts.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by Primordial


Gun control is about control, not guns.

Very well put.

That should be on a bumper sticker and t-shirts.

Thanks but it's not mine. I think I actually did see it on a t-shirt or something.

Every gun show I've been too has had cops all over. Just like any event with a certain amount of participants the venue has to pay for cops to be on site. Then, there's all the off-duty cops who are just there for personal reasons.

Couple that with the fact that every firearm I've purchased from a gun show has gone through an FFL and this whole "loophole" garbage is myth extraordinaire.

The myth will live and live despite all logic and evidence.

The list of myths off the top of my head:

gun ownership creates a psychopath
guns go around discharging themselves in childrens faces
criminals love "assault rifles"
"assault rifles" are easily made full-auto
Teflon coating makes bullets "armor-piercing"
The way a rifle looks is more important than how it functions (1992 AWB)
Making me pay excessive fees, submit to background checks and sign multiple documents keeps crack-head Jones from buying a 30 year-old .25 auto off of crack-head Mike and his van of black market arms.
whenever "auto" is used it means "machine gun"

Gun-banners are liars. Power-crazed totalitarian liars. Or, they're just as dumb as a brick wall and honestly believe the nonsense pouring from their mouths. Either way the position is shameful and ridiculous.

There is no more ignorant human being than the typical gunbanner or their followers! They will become violent if you challenge their outlook and call you stupid for protecting yourself when "Our benevolent Police Departments" are there to protect us. They can't hold a civil conversation on the subject without name calling or sighting spurious stats that have no bearing on the actual issue!

Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
There is no more ignorant human being than the typical gunbanner or their followers! They will become violent if you challenge their outlook and call you stupid for protecting yourself when "Our benevolent Police Departments" are there to protect us. They can't hold a civil conversation on the subject without name calling or sighting spurious stats that have no bearing on the actual issue!

Zindo

Well said Zindo!

I'm just about to get my provisional membership for FAC application soon. Can't wait to rub it in to any of the gun ban freaks out there

reply to post by emsed1


I think It's long been established that criminals don't get their handguns from gun shows or, from sporting goods stores, for that matter. They all get them illegally by buying stolen handguns, stealing hand guns themselves, or from underground distributors that get them here either legally or illegally from outside of the country. However, if we made it a law to lock up handguns somewhat less would be on the streets as it'd be difficult to steal them if they were kept under lock and key. And tighter security on borders would also help diminish the numbers.

In Oklahoma we have an annual gun show. This thing is a massive 3 day event. Starting on the first day, anytime you walk to the gate you will be approached several times by people asking you to buy a gun for them.

They offer alot of money too. When I go (its been a couple of years) and am approached I turn them in during the first few days and on the last day I pocket 500 or more (depending on who asked for what) and I make a big circle back to my car and leave.

So, yea felons don't go into the gun shows. They try to get one of us law abiding citizens to buy for them.

Originally posted by oconnection
When guns were banned in the UK the first year, violent home invasions went up 300%.

You got a source for that?? I'm a brit and I never saw that.

BTW only handguns are really banned... There are pretty restrictions on others (I can't see any one getting anything fully auto for instance) But we can have shotguns and rifles, even .22 competition handguns actually (single shot only - no mag).

Originally posted by jd140
In Oklahoma we have an annual gun show. This thing is a massive 3 day event. Starting on the first day, anytime you walk to the gate you will be approached several times by people asking you to buy a gun for them.

They offer a lot of money too. When I go (its been a couple of years) and am approached I turn them in during the first few days and on the last day I pocket 500 or more (depending on who asked for what) and I make a big circle back to my car and leave.

So, yea felons don't go into the gun shows. They try to get one of us law abiding citizens to buy for them.

The one that do that in Calif and Nevada are most likely undercover cops trying to do a illegal buy to bust the seller.

With the tight budgets in many states there may be more cops doing buy bust of people selling guns outside gun shows.
After the courts convict the seller then the department can issue the guns to there officers instead of buying guns with state or city money.

I know some departments sell crime guns to officers and pennies on the dollar just as a perk of being a officer.

reply to post by ANNED


Well if they were cops then they lost around 500 or more each time I took their money.

I really doubt they were though, you can tell by their age and mannerisms if they are cops or not. Some of these kids looked about 16. None would have been over 21.

Either way, I still got my spending money.

They only were able to ask known criminals, thus ones that got caught.
I'll let someone else ponder the ratio of those caught to those who didn't.

They don't get their guns from gun shows.
They get them from the people they meet at the gun shows.

bumperstickers.cafepress.com...

Here is the afore mentioned gun control bumper sticker.

reply to post by UFOTECH


Not very creative.

reply to post by Now_Then


British Gun crime

More:

And more info

Zindo

I just bought a camera for a hundred bucks. It has a 16 person facial recognition feature. Thats amazing, and so im sure what "they" have is incredible.

I see where some of the scrutiny of gun shows comes from, as no one that is not in a war zone needs an AK-47 or SkS. And I also see the point plain as day that almost nobody with an AK-47 opens up on police, almost...

kdka.com...

It didn't mention if that gun was purchased at a gun show.