No Torture Needed -- Cookies Did the Job

No Torture Needed -- Cookies Did the Job

www.eandppub.com

Fascinating piece coming in tomorrow's TIME magazine. Reporter Bobby Ghosh writes, “The most successful interrogation of an al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or ‘walling’ and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.”

(visit the link for the full news article)

Chcolate Chip, Oatmeal Raisin, Thin Mints.....

Like I always say, "Kill 'em with kindness!"



Oh goodness, you mean actually listening to a detainee and treating them like an actual person, instead of an animal, could help recover information? I'd like to hear what Cheney has to say about this!!!!

Former interrogator/member of the FBI Ali Soufan, who testified to Congress last month, tells TIME: “He was a diabetic ... We had showed him respect, and we had done this nice thing for him .... So he started talking to us instead of giving us lectures.” Ghosh points out, “Defenders of the Bush program, most notably Cheney, say the use of waterboarding produced actionable intelligence that helped the U.S. disrupt terrorist plots. But the experiences of officials like Soufan suggest that the utility of torture is limited at best and counterproductive at worst.”

R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Say it with me now. I understand war and and I understand interrogation and I understand national security. Call me a "wussy liberal" if you will, but I still think at the end of the day.....we are all human beings. The more we damage our reputation by being cruel....the more "they win".

www.eandppub.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 28-5-2009 by awake_awoke]

Treat others as you wish to be treated . . .


that is all

Use whatever works.


Waterboarding or cookies. As long as they talk then I'm ok with it.

thanks for the thread

It has a good message!

You mean to tell me the US govt used taxpayer cookies to break a terrorist. They werent laced with sodim pentathol or anything? What a novel idea, lets just give mass murderers banana splits and hot cocoa, that'll show 'em. Come kill American civilians Al-Qadea, there's free cookies in it for ya. He gave up credible info, score one for the good guys, but to tell the public that they belly rubbed a top global terrorist is a major boner for the intel community.

But if we do it this way with respect and cookies and actually doing the right thing we won't be able to create new enemies, continue to justify a huge out of control military industrial complex, or terrify our citizens with a evil nameless faceless enemy that needs inhuman agonizing methods to make them talk. A person who's willing to cooperate for cookies doesn't sound very scary does it? Kind of makes him sound human doesn't it? And we don't want that. Even on the most minute level such as this where it's cookies or waterboarding, America has to choose the most hardcore method to continue it's aims.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

reply to post by dashen


So the fact that they didn't torture the guy to get the info upsets you?

I'm all for waterboarding when needed, but to cause pain when it is not needed is pathetic. You are the type of person that needs to sit back and let adults argue the pros of enhanced interrogations.

You only hurt the arguement for it when you speak.

Well I wonder what information they gained from this? I suspect Cheney will be furious..... but thats the way the cookie crumbles...

reply to post by jd140


Hell no im not against the cookie torture, anything that lessens human suffering, in any way is a most noble and pure endeavor, but to publicize the coddling of a mass murderer is a dumb move IMO, even if it is to garner support for the intel services. So if they guy was a junky and not a diabetic and they gave him herion to make him open up I guess that is ok too. The only good I can find in making this info public is that somewhere some terrorist type is maybe thinking turning himself in is better than living in a poo crusted cave in one of those -stan countries. No sugar free cookies in the middle of the Afghan mountains, probably not much radio or tv either.

I just can't believe that some Yanks think that torture is acceptable. We are talking about torture, ffs. The actual willful pain and harm done to another human being, who is incapable of escaping from it without betraying his country, friends and family.

We are meant to be "the good guys". If we torture people, how exactly can we still claim to be so? Does the end really justify the means? Is the abyss staring back at us so hard we cannot even see what it is that we have become?

If we are torturing people, how are we to differentiate ourselves from the "bad guys" we fight?

And, just take a moment to consider: what kind of treatment can we expect from our foes for our own soldiers? What incentive could they have to do anything but maim and butcher the defenceless men in their possession?

It is only by being morally upright that a just war can be prosecuted, and we seem to have lost our morals a fair while back.

My father served in Military Intelligence for 14 years as a diplomatic liaison to the French Foreign Legion. In his job, he was charged with the interrogation of captured enemy officers. He was a very idealistic man and would have never been willing to compromise those ideals for any reason, even under orders. He was proud that the techniques he used never involved any form of torture and were always effective. His most effective form of interrogation, as he was proud of telling me, had always been a bottle of tequila.

What it comes down to is that any "enemy" is still human. If you treat them with dignity and as an equal, you will eventually be treated the same in return (remember the old adage of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or "the only way to gain trust and respect is to be respectful and trustworthy yourself"). We have a bad habit in war of dehumanizing and demonizing the enemy and forget that cultural differences aside, they have the same basic desires and aspirations that we all do.

When you share something with someone, such as cookies or a bottle of alcohol, you create a rapport. That is the most difficult part of any interrogation process. After that, it doesn't take long for the barriers which we have been conditioned into thinking of "us" and "them" are broken down and your subject realizes you aren't the inhuman demon they thought you were (especially if they were expecting to be tortured!). Get on the subject of family, and it's all easy from there. Parents love talking about their kids, and terrorists are no different...and the parental experience is universal. After sharing food, drink and some good laughs over common experiences, you can then ask the sensitive questions, with a greater likelihood of reliable intel than if it were extracted in a hostile, confrontational manner.

The only technique that my father had to use in interrogation that came close to torture was purely psychological. He would setup operations in a tent and line up friendly civilians dressed in enemy uniforms outside the tent. He would then place the subject of his interrogation at the end of the line. One by one he would call each person into the tent and close the flap. After a while he'd start yelling and fire his pistol (into the ground) and call in the medics who would carry out the person on a stretcher (as if they were dead). After doing this to 10 people over the course of 8 hours, by the time he called in the subject at the end of the day they would spill the beans voluntarily without even being prompted. The ruse was up when the subject would be escorted back out to the holding area and they saw the people my father had supposedly tortured and killed walking around in civilian clothing around the camp, but by that time, my father already had the intel that was needed from the subject.

Interrogation is a people skill, plain and simple. If you can charm any woman in a bar out of her clothes, or be the life of any party, then you can interrogate with far greater success than using methods of torture. Apparently a lot has changed in the past 40 years in the Military and the art and skill of successful interrogation without the use of torture has been forgotten and lost along the way. Perhaps this success of using cookies will help the Military find their way back to a form of interrogation that does not compromise our idealism as a Nation.

Originally posted by fraterormus
What it comes down to is that any "enemy" is still human. If you treat them with dignity and as an equal, you will eventually be treated the same in return (remember the old adage of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or "the only way to gain trust and respect is to be respectful and trustworthy yourself"). We have a bad habit in war of dehumanizing and demonizing the enemy and forget that cultural differences aside, they have the same basic desires and aspirations that we all do.

EXCELLENT!!! A star for you. That is at the core of this whole issue and a reality the fools and fanatics who support the use of torture refuse to see...

They never try the shoe on their foot. And the same issue is involved with the "terrorists" themselves... they have dehumanized us in order to do what they do...

Our biggest weapon in the war of hearts and minds is decency.

Originally posted by fraterormus
. Perhaps this success of using cookies will help the Military find their way back to a form of interrogation that does not compromise our idealism as a Nation.

Amen, if people like your father, people of moral standing were more available to train our interrogators perhaps the world wouldnt look at America as they do today. Torture, especially by America is abhorrent. I'm just saying don't tell the badguys flat out, "come to the dark side, we have cookies."

Originally posted by dashen
You mean to tell me the US govt used taxpayer cookies to break a terrorist. They werent laced with sodim pentathol or anything? What a novel idea, lets just give mass murderers banana splits and hot cocoa, that'll show 'em. Come kill American civilians Al-Qadea, there's free cookies in it for ya.

Let me ask you, what if you were on the other side of the fence?

A country invaded your country, raped innocent people and murdered many, had private contractors STARTING gun fights and wanted to stay there for 10years and one person running for president(mcCain) wanting to stay there for another 100 years.

Then an american soldier gets captured.
To them he is an invader, to them he is as what "terroists" are to you
Should they torture this american soldier?
You on the other fence just said yes.

Now look at yourself on the other side of the fence
You just wanted an american soldier to get tortured!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


They really need an "applause" button on this forum...!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Arghhh, I'm such a dope. No, I do not believe in torture, not even of a terrorist, but don't tell em we're not going to torture them! Is that so hard to understand? Don't tell them that they will get a sweet deal if they kill us!

reply to post by fraterormus


Indeed! Those who have the god-given talent to bond with others in effort to produce information or a means to an end.....why, that is real expertise!
Anyone can hold someone's head under water. Well, not anyone. Probably a hardened individual who has to get something off their chest, in my opinion at least....


I don't think exemplifying our ideals we hold dear....shows "weakness". I think it shows strength.....

Originally posted by jd140
Use whatever works.


Waterboarding or cookies. As long as they talk then I'm ok with it.

Sure, or why not electrodes on testicles, anal rape, bamboo up the fingernails or cutting off limbs.
Whatever makes them talk right? Regardless of whether they actually know something or not just as long as they tell us something we can use.

And if they should ever go back on their fabricated confessions like that Al Libi guy, we can just "suicide" them in whatever stinking prison they are being held.

Originally posted by RenDMC
Well I wonder what information they gained from this? I suspect Cheney will be furious..... but thats the way the cookie crumbles...

I want to know what information was gained from ANY Enhanced Interrogations, whether it be from waterboarding of cookie bribery. Too bad this information Cheney has requested is being kept secret by the Obama administration.

In fact this 1 comment from Cheney says it all.......

"By presidential decision last month, we saw the selective release of documents relating to enhanced interrogations. This is held up as a bold exercise in open government, honoring the public's right to know. We're informed as well that there was much agonizing over this decision. Yet somehow, when the soul searching was done and the veil was lifted on the policies of the Bush administration, the public was given less than half the truth."

This comment is just 1 out of 10 punches that landed on Obama's jaw.


www.abovetopsecret.com...