9/11 Aircraft 'Black Box' Serial Numbers Mysteriously Absent

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

.still not even a hint of interest from the debunkers

That's because we don't care. These are the only 2 numbers that matter.

N644AA

N591UA

there should be a thumbs down , or atleast an option to remove stars from posts like this ...

fella , you`ve just said that you dont care , you dont want all of the information ........ just a little bit, to create a B.S story that fits your opinion on what happened that day ..... i hope you never become a detective

Originally posted by RockLobster

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by ColoradoJens

.still not even a hint of interest from the debunkers

That's because we don't care. These are the only 2 numbers that matter.

N644AA

N591UA

there should be a thumbs down , or atleast an option to remove stars from posts like this ...

fella , you`ve just said that you dont care , you dont want all of the information ........ just a little bit, to create a B.S story that fits your opinion on what happened that day ..... i hope you never become a detective

Exactly! If this isn't proof of intent to mislead I don't know what is. The OP has brought up another of the obvious faults inherent in the OS, and this guy says "we don't care". Or in other words, let's continue the cover-up. Seriously, isn't this type of thing criminal?

reply to post by dillweed


That's because providing those serial numbers, whether it's the FBI or NTSB that has them, would mean certain unzipping of the whole government lie. So many people would start asking so many questions, calling up Boeing, AA, United, and seeking out maintenance records from friends on the inside. Now we can't have THAT, now can we?



So if you were a government agent from the Q-Unit, tasked with destroying any semblance of a valid, growing argument about the missing serial numbers, how would you go about doing such a thing- when you KNOW you CAN'T give up the serial numbers? You make up every conceivable excuse, you continue with the character assassinations, and you CLAIM that all the other means of identification take precedence over the serial numbers.

Now this is of course in direct contradiction to their own investigative policy, seeing as the OP SHOWS that serial number identification is crucial to the positive ID of an aircraft. Something in the FDR data HAS to identify the aircraft and usually does. In fact it almost ALWAYS does. But on 9/11? HA! Forget it!

The real serial numbers of those planes would not show up as the planes claimed in the attacks. The serial numbers would essentially be traced back to military drones- reinforced and capable of exceeding the flight parameters of real 757/767's. Remember, P4T's analysis shows that in all likely hood those planes should have broken up at those speeds. The airframes are not built for anything NEAR those speeds at those altitudes. Remember the phone call? Where someone at Boeing laughed at the possibility...as in NO FRIGGING WAY???



Yeah, this is one of the things about 9/11 that will NEVER be let out of the bag, until long after the perpetrators have lived out their evil lives.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

That's because providing those serial numbers, whether it's the FBI or NTSB that has them, would mean certain unzipping of the whole government lie. So many people would start asking so many questions, calling up Boeing, AA, United, and seeking out maintenance records from friends on the inside. Now we can't have THAT, now can we?

Any chance you will tell us who you have contacted thus far, in pursuit of this information, besides posting on internet forums?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Any chance you will tell us who you have contacted thus far, in pursuit of this information, besides posting on internet forums?

You all see? I MEAN REALLY. YOU ALL SEE? THIS is the kind of BS questioning that can leave no doubt whatsoever that this board is watched and seething with....

The answer to that is a resounding

NO, I WILL NOT TELL YOU.

Wtf is this bs anyway, argue the fricken topic. :shk:

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

That's because providing those serial numbers, whether it's the FBI or NTSB that has them, would mean certain unzipping of the whole government lie. So many people would start asking so many questions, calling up Boeing, AA, United, and seeking out maintenance records from friends on the inside. Now we can't have THAT, now can we?

Any chance you will tell us who you have contacted thus far, in pursuit of this information, besides posting on internet forums?

Any chance of you telling us why these missing numbers is alright with you? Any chance of you, at least one time, questioning the complete lack of standard investigative procedures on 9/11? How is it possible that you find no fault with the FBI's break with protocol? I'd really like to know how you justify your position in this particular case, or are you like 'waypast...' and believe it should be covered up?

reply to post by dillweed

Any chance of you telling us why these missing numbers is alright with you?

Please be advised that just because you don't have them doesn't mean they are missing. So, who have you contacted to try and get this information?

Any chance of you, at least one time, questioning the complete lack of standard investigative procedures on 9/11?

Be specific.

How is it possible that you find no fault with the FBI's break with protocol?

Be specific.

I'd really like to know how you justify your position in this particular case, or are you like 'waypast...' and believe it should be covered up?

What cover up?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

NO, I WILL NOT TELL YOU.

Why? What are you trying to cover up?

reply to post by hooper
Most often brevity, is the soul of wit. But in your case, it's just brevity. You've painted yourself into a corner my friend, and it's quite entertaining watching you dance around this one. Why can't you admit that there is no good reason why these numbers are being witheld?

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by hooper

 

Most often brevity, is the soul of wit. But in your case, it's just brevity. You've painted yourself into a corner my friend, and it's quite entertaining watching you dance around this one. Why can't you admit that there is no good reason why these numbers are being witheld?

I'm sorry, but you have completed failed in showing where they are being witheld. Please show me where and who you asked for these numbers. Or are you defining "witheld" as not being told by persons on an internet forum?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Wtf is this bs anyway, argue the fricken topic.

I can't tell what the topic is anyway. You claim that someone stole your car keys because you can't find them, when I ask if you tried looking for them you tell me that is none of my business and doesn't effect why someone stole them.

hooper, since you do not "stipulate" to the rest of my "inquiry", is it fair to say you do not "stipulate" to the findings of Warren Stutt since the NTSB has not acknowledged such findings and you in fact feel that the FDR was certified?

If that is the case, are you aware that the NTSB "certified" (your words) FDR data shows the aircraft too high to hit the Pentagon?

Are you aware that Warren Stutt admits he doesn't have any expertise whatsoever in Flight Data Recorders?

It appears you do since you do not "stipulate" to the findings of Warren Stutt. But for the readers here who wish to inform themselves....

"...it is pretty clear that many would question issues surrounding the wholly fake and concocted FDR data, and with good reason. To many of you who have never plugged a computer into an FDR to do data extraction, you have no clue what the data is supposed to look like or the insanity of very important and essential data in the preamble or header of the CPM memory file, to be zero'ed out and MISSING, when on an operational FDR in an actual aircraft, that is a BIT FAIL and the unit won't be flight ready, which is a 'no push' issue with the crew. No flight crew has the authority to authorize a pushback and flight with a defective or BIT FAILED FDR in the plane.

the allegations made by Warren Stutts about the A/C ID and the FLEET ID being in the parameter stream in memory is ludicrous and fraudulent. The data is always in the header of the file where it can be bit checked by the FDR on power up. It makes zero sense for two STATIC parameters which do not change be repetitively encoded in the data stream going into the CPM memory after huffman compression. Why? First, every data frame at some point has a potential use for flight parameters. Second, due to the nature of file corruption of Huffman encoded compressed data, it would not be out of the question for the header of the file to be readable and the compressed HUFFMAN data not be readable at all. At the very least, the A/C ID and FLEET ID then would validate the recorder contents.

Let's make something perfectly clear about this 'lie' being perpetrated by Warren Stutts about the missing data in the header. First, he has never worked on a real FDR in any capacity in his entire life. Second, he knows nothing about what these files are supposed to look like in the file header, and the fact that BIT checks these two parameters for validity and if the whole all up checksum fails, this is a BIT FAIL and the plane cannot fly with that.

A bench unit does not have A/C ID and FLEET ID data and still can pass BIT. Why? There is a special section of the firmware that controls BIT FAILURE MASKING for BENCH UNITS and in essence, makes the checksum computation 'ignore' the missing data that is not there because it has not been loaded yet. A unit to be shipped to an airplane maker HAS THIS DATA LOADED INTO IT AT THE FACTORY, by the manufacturer of the unit!!! This data is passed to the manufacturer by the aircraft manufacturer, who gets it from the F.A.A. This data is absolutely CRUCIAL to the positive linkage of the FDR to the actual airframe it is mounted in.

A lot of conjecture about the FDR has been openly speculated upon, and my stance about it wrongly represented in the forum at Pilots For Truth, not by Rob Balsamo, but by people who question my ability to discern and tell the truth about these facts. In one instance it was inferred that I have a hidden agenda and hence cannot be impartial, and that is why I have made my statements published at Pilots For Truth.

Read more here:
pilotsfor911truth.org...

Warren Stutts, clueless. Dennis Cimino, the guy who wrote that and more- expert.

Apparently there were more FOIA requests filed for the serial numbers after 2008, so I am told. And if they had released them, I'm sure that would be known by now.

Yeah, well you think that's something, here is the killer from Dennis:

from what I see in the data stream that was released by the N.T.S.B., the evidence supports that this data was heavily modified using a bench unit, using ground power in a lab, and does not reflect normal twin engine start sequencing and generator’s going on line, before every FLIGHT data segment loaded into it. In addition, I want to point out that the header data erasure signifies that this record was written to by a BENCH UNIT ON GROUND POWER, and that in layperson’s terms, means that it disqualifies the data entirely because during extraction post crash, the WRITE ENABLE JUMPER on the BENCH UNIT used for the post mortem data extraction for this unit, was in place, and
in-fact, nobody would ever jumper those two pins on the FDR for extraction, and furthermore, the software in the extraction rack WARNS YOU that you are about to perform a WRITE to the CPM.

Same link as above.

That's damn near proof that data was tampered with.

Flight Data Recorder Expert and Former Navy Combat Systems Specialist Dennis Cimino interviewed by pilotsfor911truth.org Co-Founder Rob Balsamo. Topics include radar, history of Govt cover-ups, TWA 800 and of course Flight Data Recorder information reported to be from American 77 - the aircraft which is claimed to have struck the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 - provided by the National Transportation Safety Board. Common excuses made by biased supporters of the govt story are also addressed. Please visit pilotsfor911truth.org... for more information.

Folks, after you hear this interview with Dennis, good luck in thinking the FDR data provided was legit. It wasn't. Just listen carefully, and try to understand. Listen to what he says about the power on resets, which were all over the file- and shouldn't have been. Amazing interview!

reply to post by hooper


What have you done to find them?

CJ

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
NOTHING in the data from the FDRs directly ties the data to the tail numbers of the planes either. This is NOT solved. And readers should not take the words of those who are doing nothing but trying to confuse the issue, or trying to get you to believe you should just drop it.

Q-UNIT worst nightmare: Crowds of people all over the US standing on street corners with huge signs: "WE WANT THE BLACK BOX SERIAL NUMBERS AND AIRCRAFT RECORDS, NOW!!!!"

..which begs the question, what are you going to do with them once you have them? Do you work for the airlines so that you can trace the numbers back to some database of serial numbrs registered to specific aircraft? Do you work for the FAA where you can see if their numbers match your numbers? Or are you simply an armchair investigator trying to drop innuendo of impropriety here becuase you don't really have any real other tangiblee vidence to go on?

"Ohh they won't publish the black box serial numbers, that TOTALLY proves conspiracy" makes no sense even after reading it three times. You have to know that.

Originally posted by hooper

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by hooper

 

Most often brevity, is the soul of wit. But in your case, it's just brevity. You've painted yourself into a corner my friend, and it's quite entertaining watching you dance around this one. Why can't you admit that there is no good reason why these numbers are being witheld?

I'm sorry, but you have completed failed in showing where they are being witheld. Please show me where and who you asked for these numbers. Or are you defining "witheld" as not being told by persons on an internet forum?

Good point. Think about it- some guy operating a 9/11 conspiracy web site and accusing everyone of lying an dcovering up sinister secret plots writes to the FAA asking for the serial numbers. What do you think they're going to tell them, "sure, here they are" or "Get lost?"

It's the same stunt Dylan Avery pulled with Jenning's death. The family knows full well Avery is a conspiracy mongor in every definition of the word, so when he comes sniffing around their family loss they naturally tell him to get lost. Avery then hires a detective to go snooping around, but when the detective finds out who is he, the detective tells him to get lost. HOW does Avery explain this -"The family is terrified to cooperate with him, and when he hired a detective HE becomes terrified to work with him." I'm sure you've seen that claim here yourself numerous times.

There's pattern of behavior here that I find disingenuous.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


OMG.

WHERE in FOIA law does it state that because you have theories, the government has the right to refuse info to you? What kind of BS are you peddling now, Dave?

:shk:

Hey, how about this Dave...How about the Q-UNIT go back to their handlers and tell them that the truth movement is requesting the serial numbers, so that speculation can be put to rest? And how about the Q-UNIT ask the government to get Boeing to release the aircraft maintenance records along with it? SHOW us, dammit, that there is no possibility of aircraft switches mid air, and that FDR data indeed did come from the alleged flights.

Can't do it? Then no deal. If the damn military itself had any REAL balls, they'd get a battalion to march into the FBI offices, with tanks and close air support, if need be, grab the FBI director by the throat, put a gun to his head, and say "hand over the damn serial numbers, AND the maintenance records. NOW. We're SICK of your damn lies after Iraq, and you're getting us killed for political motivation. Now it's YOUR turn to pay, with your life if need be. SERIAL NUMBERS! NOW!!!!"

Also, interested readers most definitely should check out the new sister thread to this, which reveals the fraud in detail:
9/11 Pentagon Flight Recorder Fraud Revealed

reply to post by TrueAmerican

hooper, since you do not "stipulate" to the rest of my "inquiry", is it fair to say you do not "stipulate" to the findings of Warren Stutt since the NTSB has not acknowledged such findings and you in fact feel that the FDR was certified?

So, what efforts have you made to find the serial numbers for the recorders? Besides posting on internet forums? Have you try and contact the FAA? The FBI? The NTSB? The airlines? Anyone?

reply to post by TrueAmerican

....get Boeing to release the aircraft maintenance records along with it?

Uh....why would Boeing have maintenance records? Just because they built the plane doesn't mean they maintain forever. And how do you know the maintenance records are even going to have the FDR's serial number on them? Why would you write down the serial number of the part every time you inspected it?