Requesting your input -- how to mark a time capsule, and what to put in it

Honestly, I'm at a loss where to put this thread: Global Meltdown? Fragile Earth? Survival?

Hang with me a bit, I'll get to it.

I have an idea -- not an original one -- but one that might well be applicable to today's [apparent] rapidly changing world.

I can already hear SDog laughing.

Okay. I was reading Cliff High's interview with Project Camelot. If you don't know him, he's the primary creator of the Half Past Human reports -- AKA -- the ALTA reports which are also referenced at George Ure's Urban Survival site. Really intriguing work, all of it, and it has a certain resonance that makes sense to me.

Read the interview at Project Camelot. It's fascinating.

Well, m'Bride and I have had this idea for a while......... we're making a time capsule. NOT a time machine, but a container of the works of the times. We've put together several items that we think are representative of the current age, as well as the Caymanian culture in which we live.

There is a cave adjacent to our property; It's on a limestone bluff that protrudes up 150 feet above this island. The Queen apparently owns the face of the bluff, however HER cave is only accessible from our chunka land. It's a small cave, however a relatively unknown one.

My Grandparents were born here, and theirs and so on.......... and they didn't know about this cave. We revere caves here, as they're our natural harbor against hurricanes. I found it one day while looking for some fruit trees my Grandmother claimed were there against the bluff. The cave is basically a 5-foot circle. It goes back into the rock 32 feet, turns to the east and ends seven feet later.

We have salvaged a fiberglass container that used to be a telephone connection. It's a cylinder about 18-inches long and with a diameter of 10-inches. It comes apart in the middle, with a rubber washer in the middle and a stainless steel ring around the join.

I have build a stairway to the cave, which is 42 feet above grade and 87 feet above high tide. We intend to fill the container with the works of....... us..... all of us, and form a concrete bulkhead and pack water, portland cement and aggregate up there and concrete the container at the end of the cave.

I have this persistant, but not frightening, feeling of radical changes in the near future. I want to leave information behind. Sort of like stocking up-- it doesn't hurt a thing, and there's a chance of something good coming of it.

Here, finally, are two questions: What would you put inside the container? My Bride thought of putting some open-pollinated seeds packed in a matrix of oxy-sorb and I insist upon an old and well-used 1976 version of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. It occurred to both of us that we should leave a primer of the English language............ a rosetta stone of sorts.

Second question: How in the world should we mark the cave so it screams out "LOOK HERE!" Seven feet above the cave is a bluff with sharp rock. I could put anything I wanted there, like a mirror epoxied into place.

I think of a time capsule as something that is opened at a later date for the historic value of examining the culture of the past, and so we are including a several writings of the Caymanian culture. Would it be silly to load a buncha stuff on a flash drive or DVD? I suspect so, but what the hell, they take up very little room.

I also want to leave some mark of humanity and our aspirations and knowledge........... you know........ just in case.

I welcome your input. You all know where I'm coming from here, I suspect. This project will be done, and completed within the month. My primary concern now is what to put in the cylinder, and how to mark it. You all have such insight. Share some of it with me, okay?

Peace and hope

Argentus

p.s. if anyone wants photos of the interior of the cave, that's an easy thing to do. It's not much to look at, but it is a very fortified location, especially the bit after the bend in the cave

Quick note: We're going to be off-island for two days, so if I'm not responsive right away, know that I'll be on it when we get back.

thank you!

If you live on a small remote island, and there is a small remote cave system on it- what are the chances of someone finding it?

My opinion- write "Time Capsule In Here" at the cave opening!!!!

But seriously- it sounds like a fun idea. As for the seeds- dont worry about that the Doomsday Vault has that covered. Perhaps make it a personal time capsule- putting in it things that are valuable to you.

Maybe you can tell your kids about it someday and enjoy as they go on a treasure hunt to find your "time capsule"!

reply to post by xynephadyn


Thanks for your reply xynephadyn

That's pretty much the crux of it. If TSHTF big time........ well, it'd be hard enough just to find this island, let alone a vault in a cave. I thought about making a rune or symbol beside the mouth of the cave. A number would be a good marker for someone who understood our numbering system, but what if it's thousands of years from now? Just tatters of meaningless writing?

How long would a mirror survive? A hundred years? less? I dunno.

We never had kids, but plan to let it be known that we're doing this. Yep. Yet another reason for the locals to think I'm not well.

Hey! Don't forget to put a crack pipe in the capsule to represent the U.S. Oh, and maybe a recipe for making meth. It's really a big thing out here in the countryside.

How about an ipod with all of Obama's speeches on it, to date?

Oh, and a coloring book with many pictures titled, "Where's GW?" and show Waldo looking for him.

reply to post by argentus


Argentus you and your bride will do well in the future, you will make it through the good and the bad times to come, no matter how bad they may get.

Argentus why do you want to make your time capsule so small? Why not block off the front of the cave, and put a door in the cave opening. Put a metal door in and keep the whole cave a secret and your own personal time capsule.

Why block off the back of the cave, when you can block off the entire cave and keep it camouflaged so that no one else locates it. Put a 5 foot tall door in the entrance way about a foot inside of the opening, so that you can use other similar rocks to put up against the wall in which you will put in a metal door. Camouflage the entrance with similar colored rocks so that no one can see or stumble upon the cave unless they are right in front of it.

That entire cave is your time capsule, so seal up the entire cave. Take your junk out there and use it as a storage cave. Your junk could some day save your life, or it can turn out to be a lot of time capsule memorabelia. That cave itself could turn out to bring back all kinds of great memories in the future if you give it a chance. Don't tell others where it is though. Everyone wants to have a secret cave.

Gradually take stuff out to the cave over a period of years, because you know you have years in which to do it in, and during that period of time you and your wife will have a great time fixing up the cave secretly. It will be your little secret, and you will have fun sharing such a secret.

Peace my friend.

If it was me, I'd make a packet of papers. Representing our past brief history (hundred years or so) up to the date you encase the capsule.

With the history, you should show the propaganda that has happened, along with the truth and how our society has been degraded. Not sure how you would lay that all out.

Like write all the TRUTHFUL history, and along the side in a collum, write the propagandistic history that has been fed to the masses. So who ever is reading it can compare and construct the history and may get an idea as how our leaders have done us wrong.

I would also dedicate several papers to natural remedies and Chinese herbalism.

Greetings...and good food for thought!

How big is your cave? Sounds like a good place to be when the #F

Seriously though, I don't know how much of a movie guy you are, but you'd definately have to store some of the all time cinematic classics.

As a screenwriter, I can only say that when I think about the potential turmoil that could await us, I always think that the movie industry will become extinct. I mean when you think of movies and sports, two of my favorite activities so to say, I could see where people could trivialize it if they compared it to some of the more important achievements that have materialized from mankind.

But come on, without such leisure activities our hearts would be more empty and are fustrations would be even greater.

So my time capsule would definately have to include:

1. DVDs (movies)
2. CDs (music)
3. Baseball/Football cards, programs, sports almanacs
4. Guisness Book of World Records
5. Classic Books

You get my point.

As a lover of history and a sucker for nostalgia, I love your idea Argentus. The time capsule sounds fun and very exciting. My suggestion is to put a work of art into it. If someone did find it in the distant and unforseeable future, a picture or a statue would be worth a million words in a language they probably wouldn't understand, right? So maybe some photographs or a small statue or even a small book of famous art would be a nice addition.

I agree with OnTheFelt

1. DVDs (movies different types action, comedy, scifi, romance etc)
2. CDs (music from all genres classic and modern of each)
3. Sports almanacs
4. Guinness Book of World Records
5. Classic Books


I would also add one good history book about each of the continents
One published and one not published in that continent so its not biased

History book about North America
History book about South America
History book about Africa
History Book about Eurasia
History book about Oceania

A list and description of the different types of government

List of when major inventions were made

List of most important events that can be recalled.

List of what not to do to the earth

A copy of Linux, Windows & OSX

Instructions on how to build a computer, cd player, dvd player so that they can play what is in the capsule or include one.

Tell them about electricity so they can use what is in the capsule.

Everything should be multilingual and include as much details as possible while dumbed down.

For all we know it could end up like in the movie The Time Machine in which we advanced and then got b***h slapped back to stone age.

Have the stuff in the time capsule in many different languages we don't know which will survive. The capsule could survive hundreds of years but wouldn't mean a darn thing if the people cant read it.

English, Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, an African Language, Persian, Greek, Hindi, a Germanic language, Russian, and if possible try putting it in Latin and Hieroglyphics



I know all these things would never be in it I was just thinking of what would be needed if someone found a capsule from now in like 100-500 years.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by jatsc]

A time capsule might include an inexpensive handheld microfiche viewer and books on survival, philosophy, science and technology so that the people that find it can have some thing useful if the social structure has collapsed. They are still available I think.

reply to post by kyred


Good one.......... although I think those items are representitive to some degree of the times, I don't think they're the most representative of these times. I guess I'm thinking that we should stow things that might be beneficial to an emerging culture. Of course, as I mentioned, the chances of an emerging culture finding this island, let alone the cave are slim. So far, the best way I have of marking the cave is a 4' X 4' mirror epoxied above it. I wish I could create a giant magnetic anomaly.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Thanks for the insightful thoughts.

The main reason we don't want to block it all off, is that we use the cave in times of hurricanes. Right now there is a ladder made of a dish "tower" that we use to climb up into the cave. I'm going to build a proper stairway to it someday -- I just want to build it out of rock and concrete, so it will take dozens of trips with aggregate and such to do it.

Right now, at the face of the cave, there is C-channel screwed in on each side of the cave. When we've been in there for hurricanes, we drop 2 X 6" cut-to-fit lumber in the channels to make a "door". It works well.

There is already a lot of stuff we leave up in the cave, and I suppose we could at least block off the six feet after the turn without problem. I'm concerned about leaving electronically stored media, as there's no guarantee than anyone who finds it will be able to generate the equipment to retrieve it. I can store photos, and written word, and I feel confident that if stored in a fiberglass container with oxy-sorb packets and then concreted, that it will persevere.

But then.............. how to deal with the English language? So, we've included a dictionary, and a couple of homemade primers. TREE = [picture of tree], etc. etc.

Imagine being able to leave clues for a future generation about our times. Do I dare to imagine that this cave, these clues could be a "find" for someone in the future? Nope. But on the other hand, I recognize that many of our "ancient" findings have been in caves. In remote places. Perhaps it's the way it's always been.

reply to post by Scarcer


TRUTH, absolute truth, is a difficult animal to capture, right? Let us look at 9-11 truth as an example. Who knows for certain what happened? I have my ideas.

If I did write such things, I'd want to gather views from people that were a microcosm of the Earth. Well, that's what I've tried to do here. I'm serious folks....... tell me what you want in this preservation area. I don't think it'll serve the folks of the future to finally make a translation of writings and decipher the phrase "George Bush was a weenie crook." Nope. There will have to be opposing sides, and a wide view of the whole era. So............ I'm seeking out compilations.... writings that seem to encompass our knowledge. I've tossed in "A Fearful Symmetry" by A. Zee.

reply to post by OnTheFelt


EXcellent suggestions. One has to be careful with movies and such -- I think it's important to identify them as fictitious entertainment, and not representative of human life at this era.

But yes, classic works, and as another poster said, art and music and the basic core of vitality that makes us more than basic animals.

I have started with a core of physics, chemistry and math. I welcome your suggestions as to what other elements should be representative of the creative impulses of humanity.

An external hard drive full of everything you can imagine. I wonder how much space all the posts here would take up... I'm sure the future people would be amused by us arguing over stuff they already know about.

reply to post by sc2099


Great idea. I have no idea how well photos cast into West Systems epoxy will survive the ages, but have decided to capture a few.

Aside from that, I can save a bazillion gigs of images on flash drives and such. We have an old laptop which my Bride has agreed to donate to the cause. Perhaps the workings of it can survive.

I love history too. I wish it weren't such an intangible thing. Wouldn't it be wonderous to really KNOW what happened? But then........ I look at our times now........ who can really say what is happening? So history is the perspective of a culture.

I think you can contribute to this idea very well, and thanks for your input so far!

reply to post by jatsc


Wow, JATSC, you bring some very insightful ideas. Operating systems. I would never have thought of that. Thank you very much.