North Korea Won’t Allow The World To Do Nothing!

Hey Op.

I don't agree with your analysis at all...

North Korean is not really an independent entity.

Which pretty much leads to one implication.

Originally posted by golemina
Hey Op.

I don't agree with your analysis at all...

North Korean is not really an independent entity.

Which pretty much leads to one implication.

With all due respect to those who believe North Korea is nothing but an arm of China, excuse me as I respectfully disagree. North Korea is as much of a pawn being abused by China, as Israel is a pawn being abused by the USA. Now I know there are those who strongly believe that both of those countries are in fact pawns to these two world powers, however there is nothing to prove that is true in either case. Sure, both are close allies of the other, and neither could survive very long without the assistance of the other… However, each are ran independently with their own goals, even though both show their bread and butter their due respect, I believe it must be stated openly that neither exists solely for the amusement of the United States or China.


When North Korea detonated that Nuclear Bomb, North Korea just become as big a threat to China as they are the rest of the world. To even think otherwise shows just how little people are paying attention to history. The game in that region has just changed drastically. For North Korea their current actions are not only to show the west they are serious, but also that entire region, and that includes China, that they are serious and that they are a force to be reckoned with. Everyone knows North Korea cannot hit the USA, and even if they could it would be extremely limited. However, and this is extremely important… North Korea could in fact hit all of Asia and that includes all of China. So this war they are about to create is not only a war to gain more from the West, but its also possible they will start this war so they can bully China as well.


If anyone seriously thinks China believes a Nuclear North Korea is in China‘s best interest… Then they have completely forgot how the old/or hidden U.S.S.R. used to believe they had a firm grip on China, until China detonated their own nuclear bomb and then their entire Relationship and the balance of power in that Region changed as well. There are many more places where we can look to history to see just how true that statement is… It would be ironic as hell China if we find out that China fell for the same yes masta routine they played against the old Russian Empire.


North Korea is going to pick a fight. North Korea is going to tell China they damn well better not stop feeding them fuel and food. Because if North Korea is going down because China stopped supplying them, just who in the hell is China gonna destroy if North Korea saves two or more nukes for their old masters?


Like I said this is one hell of game of brinkmanship North Korea is playing. The only thing that has surprised me so far is how quickly they are already kicking the cage to the dogs of war. When North Korea stated they have pulled out of that armistice/ceasefire, no matter how much we all want to pretend… A State of War now exists between North and South Korea and the United States. It’s a done deal.


The only question that now needs to be answered is, what kind of resolve will the West have? Only the media in the West and in Europe are down playing the seriousness of what North Korea did today (yesterday their time). Unless the West is willing to win and say damn the consequences, North Korea cannot lose! One of the main reasons its being reported that China has secretly stated that North Korea has gone mad is because I believe North Korea TOLD China what their options are. And China is now worried as hell! If North Korea nukes South Korea or Japan, America will respond in kind. If China nukes North Korea the West will be able to laugh about that for many years to come while China cleans up their destroyed Cities. And when I say laugh I mean its so damn sad it aint funny laugh!


I would say we will all know how serious North Korea is within a few hours, days, or weeks. It truly is that serious and I don’t see how it can be stopped… Well yes I do, I just don’t know if the West, Russia, and China are all willing to drop as many bombs as needed per country to end this North Korean threat once and for all!


I should let it be known I am praying I am wrong… I truly am… Yet I can see this as clearly as if I were doing it because this is exactly how I would play it. I guess we’re all about to find out quick fast and in a damn hurry! I just hope the military is sending enough support to get our soldiers out of harms way before the North begins the fireworks.


--Charles Marcello



[edit on 27-5-2009 by littlebunny]

You might want to do a little more work on that NK being an independent political entity.

Last time I checked something like 90% of NKs food, 90% of it's raw goods came thru China...

Further, China has a huge tendency to the saber rattling. Other nation entities have been totally swarmed under IN FACT for far less than the behaviorial aberrations shown by NK.

If you use Taiwan as an example of Chinas warlike tendencies... You start to get a better picture of the inner thinking.

In short, China doesn't have a very high tolerance threshold on anything which they consider to be in their 'sphere of influence'.

A quick look of the map shows the Korean pennisula as a TINY appendage to China.

Your Israel-USA example just don't have any real relevance for a lot of reasons.

For what it's worth... I've even heard NK referred to by some recent authors as South China.

An honest observer might hypothesize that NK is a paper tiger and the entire confrontation that requires MUCH more production values to even begin to look like a low-budget staging of another regional crisis.

(a LOT of reading between the lines needs to be applied... If you dig what I'm saying brother. )

Originally posted by golemina
You might want to do a little more work on that NK being an independent political entity.

Last time I checked something like 90% of NKs food, 90% of it's raw goods came thru China...

North Korea is not China's puppet, I'm sorry they just aint. As far as I am concerned nuff said about that!


Now...


Has anyone noticed how quiet North Korea has been today? This morning when I read what the UN said about North Korea not having the legal authority to remove itself from that armistice/cease fire I thought to myself…. “Holy crap, are those people at UN really that freaken stupid?”
I mean, look at where we are... Did the UN give North Korea the right to detonate a nuclear bomb? NO? Then where the hell does the UN come off telling North Korea that they don't have the right to leave a cease-fire agreement they agreed to? Nobody officially won, or officially ended that war… The North told the whole world to go get bent just a few days ago and now those idiots at the UN just said something that may have made things a whole heck a lot more dangerous. I mean look at what happened when the UN demanded North Korea doesn’t have the authority or the right to have a Nuclear Bomb.


Also, the reaction by the West is extremely interesting indeed. I keep having to go to Asian and Middle-Eastern websites to get the latest news out of that Region because the West is almost dead silent. That should be very puzzling. Yet it makes perfect sense to me.


I mean check this… the whole world is saying North Korea won't do anything. Then South Korea said they will kick North Korea's ass if they start anything, and the US is saying we see no need to send more troops. And to top it all off the UN says North Korea doesn't have the right to leave the cease-fire agreement. While Russia and China are preparing their countries for radiation fallout. And then one day after North Korea announced they no longer recognize the cease-fire they become dead silent. If this was a movie we would all know the crap is about to hit the fan... Yet the West is acting as if nothing happened and North Korea's actions either deserve zero attention, or even more interesting, like they never happened. If I was you guys I would be thinking something is horribly wrong, that is, if I believed North Korea was just throwing a tantrum... Yet as you all know I believe different and by Saturday at the earliest North Korea could start those fireworks. I won't bet on them doing it this weekend, though I wouldn’t be completely surprised if they did… but next weekend and everyday there after its wide open. I mean North Korea has threaten to leave the armistice several times in the past fifty five years… Now this is important… this is the first time they have stated the cease-fire no longer exists. That is freaken huge! And you people think they’re just playing a game. Well okay, if North Korea comes back to the table without firing a shot, then I will openly admit I am wrong… But…


--Charles Marcello




[edit on 29-5-2009 by littlebunny]

I totaly disagree all the US would have to do is anilate NK weapons capabilities with presision bombs and contain thier country.

Iraq had the 5th largest military in 1991 and we distroyed it within a week with minimun casualties. We did it once I have no doubt we could do it again.

Thats not to say South Korea wouldn't suffer because I'm sure Kim would bomb the hell out of the south. But I gaurentee shortly after his missle capasity would be a lot less because of presion guided munitions.

NK may have tested a couple of nukes but can they make it work on a warhead? personaly I don't think they have the capability yet.

All KN wants is attention but thier not getting the attention they want.

reply to post by littlebunny

North Korea is not China's puppet, I'm sorry they just aint. As far as I am concerned nuff said about that!

Sorry big guy... This is ATS.

You've got to come up with more than that to support your 'argument'.

I gave you COLD, HARD facts.

NK it TOTALLY dependent on China for even it's daily survival.

What do you have?

reply to post by wantsome


Hello wantsome...

I am not saying the United States can't whip the crap out of North Korea. Hardly! The USA if it gets serious can wipe the floor with that country. What this thread is about, and what my argument is, North Korea will attack this time. I stand by that statement and everything I see so far says they will. IMO they have to. They can't play the same old game that has lasted, in its current form, with three Presidents now. IF they don't attack the WEST will grow bolder and North Korea, nuclear or not, becomes, or the idea becomes even stronger, that they are a cowardice country that likes to play the tough guy, but when push comes to shove they will back down. Which means that the WEST can start demanding more and forcing North Korea to give more. However if North Korea attacks and shows that it is willing to kill thousands and lose thousands, then the world will treat them with the fear and respect North Korea demands.


When North Korea attacks the WEST will respond, to think otherwise is just silly. However, the WEST will not invade North Korea because a low tech conflict is a very costly, both in blood and money, warfare. With that in mind North Korea will attack. And because they have a nuclear bomb, and when they show they are willing to fight, they can even punk China to give more, let alone what the WEST and the UN will give to stop the bloodshed.


That's my argument, and that is EXACTLY what I see coming in the next few days or weeks. For North Korea to do otherwise will make them more of a joke. North Korea has to understand this, and for that reason they will attack.


--Charles Marcello

Originally posted by golemina

...I gave you COLD, HARD facts.

NK it TOTALLY dependent on China for even it's daily survival.

What do you have?

Hi again golemina,


I just went through this entire thread looking for your, 'cold hard facts', yet I couldn't find anything that you have posted that is even remotely similar to cold hard facts.


North Korea does not get 90% of anything from China, so I know damn well that is not the 'cold hard facts' you are referring to, I mean are you? If they are cold hard facts as you claim, then please provide the source. Thanks in Advance.


Even though North Korea is dependant on the ENTIRE world for a lot of its subsistence, North Korea has the ability to feed its Army for many months, some estimates puts that number at over a year. So with that being the reality, and seeing how China is not a stupid people. IF you had a crazy ass member in your family who is fun to have around because right now he poses no threat to you, but he’s a major headache to people you dislike. You are going to keep feeding that family member. That is, until that family member thinks he has grown strong enough or crazy enough to start threatening you. Then you have only two choices. Either tell the family member to get lost, and deal with all the problems that could bring... Or do everything you can to keep that crazy person on your side. I believe North Korea is crazy as a fox and they are playing one hell of a game. We shall see.

However, I guarantee we will find out that North Korea's and China's relationship will drastically change over the next year. I guaran-damn-tee it!


--Charles Marcello



[edit on 29-5-2009 by littlebunny]

reply to post by littlebunny


Cold hard facts are apparently in the eye of the beholder (for some people ).

Apparently, you have ALL of the answers.

Good luck with that.

Originally posted by littlebunny

If anyone attacks North Korea they will be playing right into North Korea’s hands

Agree

For North Korea it’s a win/win situation. Attack and they only need to hold ground and the world will give up. Do nothing and North Korea will continue to push the world towards a fight.

It cannot be a win/win situation for North Korea. If they push too far they wiil deserve everything they get.

The world will attempt to do nothing, but North Korea will force them to. North Korea is looking for a fight and they will not stop until there is one.

You answered my previous statement right there! There is a line to cross. NK can do what they want while it causes no harm to any other nation. The minute they bomb SK or China or an American warship they must face the consequences.

[edit on 30/5/09 by logicalview]

[edit on 30/5/09 by logicalview]

[edit on 30/5/09 by logicalview]

reply to post by logicalview



Hello Logicalview,


I agree if North Korea attacks any nation they have to accept the consequences. I am arguing that North Korea knows this and they have determined that the risks are worth the end result. The problem North Korea has to weigh is how far to push. IF they go full throttle and start bombing the hell out of Seoul, then South Korea may determine destroying North Korea is well worth the risk of China’s involvement. However, if North Korea uses a limited attack, killing thousands of South Korea’s and accepting the loss of thousands of their own forces, then the entire world will try to bring about peace as quickly as possible. However, each side would need to respond with relative force. If either side comes across as trying to completely wipe out the other, then it will last for several months or years. However, if each side does strategic attacks, with limited results, and with limited resources then the war may only last a few days or weeks. It is that type of warfare I believe North Korea will create in the coming days or weeks. And I believe the West will respond with limited resolve for fear of making that war become a full on conflict, with each side fighting for the absolute destruction of the other side.

I don’t believe North Korea wants to occupy South Korea, however, I believe that North Korea will attack in order to be given for free, the ability to build up their society in order to calm their population, plus some other bonuses that will come with attacking.


If anyone is interested I can explain what I mean, and what I believe is in it for North Korea, and what they will want for peace that they haven‘t been able to receive over the last twenty years.


--Charles Marcello

reply to post by littlebunny


Absolutlely agree with you Charles.

The bottom line is how far are NK prepared to go? And ,i suppose, how far must NK go to force a reaction from the global community, although the UN, China, Japan and Russia i feel will be the most involved nations.

For the Americans to commit themselves to another potential Vietnam or Iraq it would have to be a 110% justified reason to attack NK (assuming the use of nukes is completely disregarded)

As i have said in this thread and other related threads, as long as NK do not attack another nation or give any justified reason for another nation to attack them , they can do as they damn well please.

regards

logical