The 10 punches that Dick Cheney landed on Barack Obama's jaw

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso

In a televised interview Russian president Vladimir Putin stated he personally warned the state department that an attack was planned in the near future. He said he done this in August 2001. So they did have information from the president of a foreign government with as much resources available to him as we have. Obviously it would appear he has more.

The US intelligence agencies were aware at anytime there were enemies willing and capable of attacks on the country.

The operative phrase of Putin's claim is "an attack was planned in the near future." It was known, in broad terms, an attack was being planned. The problem with intelligence has always been how far advanced the plans are and whether they will actually be acted upon.

My impression is that the administration and most intelligence branches were aware something very serious was in preparation and though they would be able to gather critical specifics given time. But all were caught by surprise that it happened in early September that year and the unbelievably devastating scale of it.


Mike

Given a choice between one man, willing to be hated by so many, just to do what is right...and...a man who will say and do anything just to be liked?

I take Cheney over Obama any day!

Originally posted by RRconservative
4 posts and 4 bashes on Cheney. But no comments on his quotes. I didn't expect less!

Take the time to read his quotes, if you disagree...state why. If you agree...also state why.

If you want to bash Cheney do so in reference to his quotes.

Oh well I think I just killed my own thread!

[edit on 25-5-2009 by RRconservative]

I've added to Cheney's quotes in bold with what he either was thinking, or should have said to be truthful. ANything in bold, is added by me.

1. "I've heard occasional speculation that I'm a different man after 9/11. I wouldn't say that, but I'll freely admit that COORDINATING a devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities."

2. "The first attack on the World Trade Center was treated as a law- enforcement problem, with everything handled after the fact: arrests, indictments, convictions, prison sentences, case closed - We sold them the explosives, trained them how to install it, but they screwed up."

3. "By presidential decision last month, we saw the selective release of documents relating to enhanced interrogations. This is held up as a bold exercise in open government, honoring the public's right to know. We're informed as well that there was much agonizing over this decision. Yet somehow, when the soul searching was done and the veil was lifted on the policies of the Bush administration, the public was given less than half the truth, because, 1) I'd burned anything that related to me, and 2) I was still doctoring the rest to ensure it caused the most political damage to those we want to get rid of, outspoken truth diggers."

4. "It's hard to imagine a worse precedent filled with more possibilities for trouble and abuse than to have an incoming administration criminalize the policy decisions of its predecessor. Apart from doing a serious injustice to intelligence operators and lawyers, who deserve far better for their devoted service, the danger here is a loss of focus on national security and what it requires. Additionally, it would obviously incriminate me, and anyone with any sense will know that I have the means and the disposition to kill anyone who fks with me"

5. "We had a lot of blind spots after the attacks on our country, things we didn't know about al Qaeda. We didn't know about al Qaeda's plans, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a few others did know. And with many thousands of innocent lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time, if they answered them at all.' Of course everything I said in the last paragraph is tongue in cheek, obviously we knew everything because we were paying for it and had selected and trained everyone involved. What we needed was for someone actually LIVING to produce a confession - and we needed it FAST. So we found some guys who we knew could be taken with no political fuss, and we tortured the crap out of them - and viola - ya we got our confessions, and within our required time frame to keep our asses out of the fire.

6. "On his second day in office, President Obama announced he was closing the detention facility at Guantanamo. This step came with little deliberation, and no plan. The idiot hadn't even asked me, which is kind of stupid considering I completely outrank him. . Now the president says some of these terrorists should be brought to American soil for trial in our court system. Others, he says, will be shipped to third countries; but so far, the United States has had little luck getting other countries to take hardened terrorists. So long as I'm around, and those guys might get press, or change their story - then you can scrub off any idea they are getting out of my hands alive. "

7. "The administration has found that it's easy to receive applause in Europe for closing Guantanamo, but it's tricky to come up with an alternative that will serve the interest of justice and America's national security. Obama really is an idiot here - running off without asking his superiors for direction on a fairly crucial issue. He is new, and doesn't realize his place yet, but he is learning. When I have decided who is a threat in terms of having acess to press, and which of the prisoners I can kill off with impunity, then we have a clearer view going forward. "

8. "If fine speechmaking, appeals to reason, or pleas for compassion had the power to move them, the terrorists would long ago have abandoned the field. Always gives me a kick calling those poor bastards terrorists. I mean sometimes we just pick them up at random. Mostly they are people who know too much, were once useful - but no longer. The main reason we hold them is to use as leverage on their relatives who we can coerce to do or say anything."

9. "It's worth recalling that ultimate power of declassification belongs to the president himself. President Obama has used his declassification authority to reveal what happens in the interrogation of terrorists. Now let him use that same power to show Americans what did not happen thanks to the good work of our intelligence officials. Of course, producing evidence of nothing is what we do best.""

10. "To the very end of our administration, we kept al-Qaeda terrorists busy with other problems. We focused on getting their secrets instead of sharing ours with them. And on our watch, they never hit this country again. After the most lethal and devastating terrorist attack ever, 7- 1/2 years without a repeat is not a record to be rebuked and scorned, much less criminalized. Of course - we had already won all the political motion we could, pushed through our Patriot act and so forth, and Bush was basically so unpopular we could have landed a million screaming, drug crazed, mind controlled Arabs on Manhattan Island - and no-one would have lifted a finger to support Bush anymore. Ya - the ride was over, we just needed to keep all the wars running, just a little heat here and there, enough to keep the gun sales up - enough to keep a body of troops in Iraq - yeah, we had already done the job. "


Well - you asked for people to respond to each quote - I think my responses are fairly much on the money.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Amagnon]

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by semperfortis


Incredible you still sipping that coo laid and wearing those pink colored Glasses, perhaps you can fool those that still think conservatives are good, but for me that has been on top of what has been going on in this nation for years, you can not fool me at all.

Wake up my friend because you are still as blind about politics as a bat.

California down fall is nothing more than the end result of bad policies, the same way that many other states are hav ing the same BS but they rather keep it quiet.

At least California has come public with the mess that this nation politicians has created.

Is not such thing and Republican and Democrats anymore, so the better you learn that tidbit of information the better you may come to terms with life in the once great USA.

What we got now is a pack of corrupted morons and is not night in shiny armor to come to the people of Americas help but our own selves.

Cheney is a blood sucking vampire that needs the blood of our soldiers to keep his agendas well fed.

reply to post by marg6043


I appreciate your opinion Marg, but it is simply your opinion and telling me I am sipping koolaid and wearing pink glasses is not really very professional or contributory to the discussion.

However this was funny...

you are still as blind about politics as a bat.

I am glad you added the laughing face as it truly cracked me up as well...

and is not night in shiny armor to come to the people of Americas help but our own selves.

Cheney is a blood sucking vampire that needs the blood of our soldiers to keep his agendas well fed.

Now aside from the grammatical errors, I am not sure how to intelligently respond to this. I don't believe in Vampires would seem appropriate.

This is a good example however of the vast difference in the way Liberals see the world as opposed to Conservatives. Liberals react with emotion on every front, Conservatives are rational and see facts.

Much like Cheney..

the better you may come to terms with life in the once great USA.

I have no real way to express to you how very successful I am and how this STILL great country has been good to me. I have of course paid it back at every turn. Having served in uniform for the past 29 years, my dues are paid. Unlike most of the liberals that post on here, I don't want a hand out.

As for my knowledge of politics, to readdress an issue, I will quite frankly match my knowledge and experience against anyone here.

Dick Cheney and George Bush, (both) are shining examples of all that is right with this country. The current administration is showing us all that is wrong. We can only pray something changes before it is too late.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
This is a good example however of the vast difference in the way Liberals see the world as opposed to Conservatives. Liberals react with emotion on every front, Conservatives are rational and see facts.

I agree with that. Look at the post above Marg's, it's all the same. All opinion with no proof to back it up. You could even look at the recent California Supreme Court ruling, now for the liberal side it's too EASY to ammend the Constitiution, but they will be more than willing to do the same to enshrine their ideas in the Constitution as soon as they can. You can't have it both ways.

Liberals for the most part, don't seem to think out the consequences of their actions as much as Conservatives. Universal Govt controlled health care, sure..... lets not worry about the costs or the lack on new developments, we will worry about those little problems later. Lets close Gitmo, oh wait .... what do we do with those that are there. Let's borrow and spend our way out of this Recession, we will figure out how to pay for it later....... Let's talk with Iran and Hamas, it doesn't matter that they won't change their behavior or even respond in a positive manner...

Apparently cheney has only a 5% approval rating so i wouldn't count on it

Lol sorry about that
My first double comment


[edit on 27-5-2009 by Interryanmilan]

This is a good example however of the vast difference in the way Liberals see the world as opposed to Conservatives. Liberals react with emotion on every front, Conservatives are rational and see facts.

Unlike most of the liberals that post on here, I don't want a hand out.

No offense intended but you and everyone else throwing around "liberal" nowadays like it's a racial slur really come off as hateful, IMO, you would be wise to refrain from angrily classifying/labeling your fellow citizens from a holier than thou perspective.
Let me clarify, I don't associate myself with either side of the left/right paradigm, I prefer to not support evil men who are mostly self-serving. Semper, anyone who has served for as long as you have, IMO, deserves a thank you, I want you to know I respect you for your time defending our country.

Dick Cheney and George Bush, (both) are shining examples of all that is right with this country.

That opinion is quite rare I think

Originally posted by Jerster
No offense intended but you and everyone else throwing around "liberal" nowadays like it's a racial slur really come off as hateful, IMO, you would be wise to refrain from angrily classifying/labeling your fellow citizens from a holier than thou perspective.

It is you that has associated being liberal as a slur. I mean it with no malice, simply as a way of describing a group of people of a particular political viewpoint. Hey, if you are liberal, be proud about it, same for the other side. I can do without the flip flopping / war monger crap tags that people add.

I would suggest you look at which side of the debate throws more negative adjectives around when describing the other side, then draw your own conclusions. This thead should be a great example of this, I bet. I would agree it would be better if we would eliminate all of the associated name calling, but with the current state of politics in America, I don't think that will be happening soon.

reply to post by RRconservative


1. "I've heard occasional speculation that I'm a different man after 9/11. I wouldn't say that, but I'll freely admit that watching a coordinated, devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities."

So his responsibility became arresting people not charging them with anything then torturing them?
Most of whom had NOTHING to do with 9-11 mind you.
I have a responsibility to raise my children with love and respect, should I then turn to abuse and torture when they decide they want to rebel against my heavy handed policing of the world?

2. "The first attack on the World Trade Center was treated as a law- enforcement problem, with everything handled after the fact: arrests, indictments, convictions, prison sentences, case closed."

Law enforcement? The CIA is not civil law enforcement nor is it a civil service entity. Arrests yes indictments NO! NOT until we all found out how many people where in there and how they where being TORTURED, convictions? Again NOT until we found out.Even then it was only TWO people who had a trial we heard about! Prison sentences? Name one of them that is sitting in a state or federal run prison other than gitmo. CASE CLOSED

3. "By presidential decision last month, we saw the selective release of documents relating to enhanced interrogations. This is held up as a bold exercise in open government, honoring the public's right to know. We're informed as well that there was much agonizing over this decision. Yet somehow, when the soul searching was done and the veil was lifted on the policies of the Bush administration, the public was given less than half the truth."

“Enhanced Interrogations? It’s torture with a pretty politically correct name! Bold exercise in “OPEN” government? We didn’t get any real fact’s till his arse was gone! Half truth from who? Cheney himself I believe!


4. "It's hard to imagine a worse precedent filled with more possibilities for trouble and abuse than to have an incoming administration criminalize the policy decisions of its predecessor. Apart from doing a serious injustice to intelligence operators and lawyers, who deserve far better for their devoted service, the danger here is a loss of focus on national security and what it requires."

A worse precedent? trouble and abuse of the past admin? PLEASE they broke the dang law stop crying about it and accept the fact that they screwed up big time along with several other countries that are hiding under Martha Washingtons’ skirt tails!!

5. "We had a lot of blind spots after the attacks on our country, things we didn't know about al Qaeda. We didn't know about al Qaeda's plans, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a few others did know. And with many thousands of innocent lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time, if they answered them at all."

The only blind spot’s in the whole mess where the one’s presented to the public till they where out of office and had bill’s in place to protect all of their lackeys!

6. "On his second day in office, President Obama announced he was closing the detention facility at Guantanamo. This step came with little deliberation, and no plan. Now the president says some of these terrorists should be brought to American soil for trial in our court system. Others, he says, will be shipped to third countries; but so far, the United States has had little luck getting other countries to take hardened terrorists."

BUT wait I thought they where already getting court trials under the law here in the United States of America? Someone is confused with the quotes here he clearly said in quote number 2 that it was a law enforcement gig from the first time on. They where aressted and indictments eta all Why do they now need to be brought to our courts if they have already gotten all of that?

7. "The administration has found that it's easy to receive applause in Europe for closing Guantanamo, but it's tricky to come up with an alternative that will serve the interest of justice and America's national security."

But wait number two said justice was already served? So what’s the hold up?Oh thats right only the military has the only right to try them!

8. "If fine speechmaking, appeals to reason, or pleas for compassion had the power to move them, the terrorists would long ago have abandoned the field."

Oh yes and they tried to talk to them all along; not bomb them into oblivion over what someone else had done.How can you abandon a feild that is surrounded with armed troops and tanks?

9. "It's worth recalling that ultimate power of declassification belongs to the president himself. President Obama has used his declassification authority to reveal what happens in the interrogation of terrorists. Now let him use that same power to show Americans what did not happen thanks to the good work of our intelligence officials."

Hmmm yes let him show us what really went on behind the scene’s of all those secret meetings and tribunal’s that no one has yet to hear of! Oh wait we can rely on Cheney to tell us all of the law’s he broke in those secret meetings.

10. "To the very end of our administration, we kept al-Qaeda terrorists busy with other problems. We focused on getting their secrets instead of sharing ours with them. And on our watch, they never hit this country again. After the most lethal and devastating terrorist attack ever, 7- 1/2 years without a repeat is not a record to be rebuked and scorned, much less criminalized."

Oh yes we kept them busy with growing all of our poppies! Oh and now that we tried to rip them off yet again they are pissed and ready to fight and just take back all of the land we have “forced” them to work. Oh yes 7 ½ years with out an attack says him! I highly doubt that to be true they do own the media after all.


There how is that ? ENJOY Cheny is a baboon and he got caught live with it!

reply to post by semperfortis


You know what, I am no even going to answer your post, because the biggest mistake you made was attacking my "grammatical errors" knowing every well where I come from, and you most of all know this you are a ]moderator, shame on you, but if that is the only way you can find to attack my post then be happy and enjoy your rosy colored life.

For the rest of us that woke up many years ago to the corruption that now is call the US of American government we know where we are heading and when that path reach us you like many other will be crying for what once we were.

Have a happy life, ignorance is a Bliss . . . . in littler children is a bless in adults is shame.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, I sincerely apologize... I in no way intended for it to be an attack on you.. I am so sorry that it was perceived as such..

Having known you for some time and posted with you, I was trying to insert a little levity into the conversation and I apparently failed miserably...

I hope you can accept my apology and we can continue being friends..

"Sorry about the off topic folks, but this needed to be public"

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Semper, you know this nothing but rant, you will always be my friend, just something to heat things up.

You know that if I have been really touchy about the "grammar" I would have be gone from this site a long time ago.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Which party gives tax breaks only to wealthy people and corporations?

Republicans are for tax breaks for everyone who pay taxes.

Not much thats for sure...

Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Which party shreaded the constitution with the patriot act?

The Patriot Act that Obama voted FOR, as well as many other Democrats?

Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Which party supports torture as a means to gather intelligence?

Torture...It's called Enhanced Interrogation and it was AOK with the Democrat Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi.

I guess they didn't want to antagonise conservative voters.... I disagree with both decisions but many times doing the right thing is political suicide.

Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Which party keeps sabbotaging national healthcare EVENTHOUGH half our population is uninsured?

Don't like our healthcare? Go to Canada and wait and wait and wait, meanwhile Canadians are rushing over here to get treated.

Perhaps your exaggerating just a tad

Even if the waiting period was horrible its better having to wait to get treatment rather than not getting any at all or having your salary garnished for years just because you can't afford health insurance.

Originally posted by RRconservative

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Republicans have ZERO right to bitch about ANYTHING!

But when Republicans had control dissent was Patriotic, now we have no right to complain? Hypocrite!!!!

Exactly the opposite! Anyone who dared protest for whatever reason was labeled a socialist, traitor, communist, tree-hugging hippy, muslim terrorist...you name it!

[edit on 27-5-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

reply to post by pavil


And your post makes three emotional diatribes in a row. Clearly conservatives are more emotional, and not as rational, as they would like to believe. I would say extremists of any kind are more emotional and less rational.

Our country was founded by liberals, so those who like to indulge in liberal bashing might want to recognize that you are bashing the ideals on which this country was founded. Personally, I think George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were moderates, and that is what people ought to be considering, as this is the path to common sense.

In Dick Cheney I see a man unwilling to admit to his own mistakes, and that is a very serious personality disorder. If he can't figure out how to do that and still hang on to his dignity, then he ought to just keep his mouth shut, because he is not helping his case.

It is not just 9-11 that makes the GW/Cheney regime look so incompetent, there is also Katrina with having a guy with no qualified experience in charge of FEMA, it was lack of planning for what to do after deposing Hussein from power, and lastly it was allowing our nation to continue to plunge head long into debt creating our current economic crisis, with all the corruption in our banking and investment industries.

If you want to defend the GW/Cheney admin, then find something legitimate to defend. Claiming that our nation did not experience another 9-11 on their watch doesn't cut the mustard, there should not have been a first. Considering we had two oil men invaded an oil rich country and how much money Cheney made off the war through the crooked dealings of Haliburton and no bid contracts, the whole patriot line just plain stinks.


Put those facts in your pipe and smoke em.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by pavil

 

And your post makes three emotional diatribes in a row. Clearly conservatives are more emotional, and not as rational, as they would like to believe. I would say extremists of any kind are more emotional and less rational.

Which of my 4 statements was not emotional? Was it the Health Care, Gitmo, Bailout or Iran Overtures? I presented you with 4 cases of people acting without fully thinking over the consequences and gave rationales as to why we might want to think them through ahead of time and you equate that with being emotional? My "emotions" were based on 4 recent changes that show a lack of the exact thing I was talking about (thinking things through).


Now I'm going to go cry.......Thanks!!

It's nothing personal poet, I rather like you. I actually agree with the last sentence I quoted from you, but I don't smoke pipes nor anything else, so I must decline your offer.

Don't you mean shots with a hunting rifle more then punching?

reply to post by pavil

Which of my 4 statements was not emotional?

None, they were all emotional.

They were all opinion and speculation unaccompanied by logic or reason to back up your opinion. All you did was make a bunch of claims that were your emotional take on the matter.

added: Of course we will no doubt be able to discuss these points on some later thread. I used to actually smoke a corn cob pipe on occasion.

[edit on 27-5-2009 by poet1b]

reply to post by poet1b


No worries , I'll just enjoy the smell while we bicker, er I mean debate.
Like I said, you put forth effort into your posts, which I appreciate even if I don't always agree with them.

My points are still valid however, the debate on healthcare never mentions it costing us less overall, there is no plan after Gitmo closes, we have basically borrowed the next generations money to try and dig ourselves out of this recession and their is no evidence currently that our new strategy towards Iran or Hamas has moderated them whatsoever.

There can be middle ground between Liberals and Conservatives on some issues, but neither side is willing to stake out the middle first.


[edit on 27-5-2009 by pavil]