The New Great Game

reply to post by JanusFIN


Wow

You guys sure are working over time. It will take a fair bit of time to go over all of that.

Thanks for the link.

reply to post by JanusFIN


I'm wondering who is the biggest arms dealers dealing with the Iranians.
I noticed in one the of the links they mentioned modern weapons.

There is a pretty good video follow the link.



Stiff resistance by Swat Taliban

The Pakistani military says it has captured a Taliban stronghold in the Swat Valley, as it tries to regain control in the region.

It says it met stiff resistance before securing the town of Maalam Jabba, which it said was being used as a training centre and supply base for the Taliban.

Earlier, the Pakistani authorities said nearly 2.4m people had fled their homes in the past month due to the fighting.

reply to post by SLAYER69


With the way that things are going in Pakistan, they are looking at potential for a humanitarian crisis depending on what happens with the displaced population. With Taliban fighters working to escape within the population of refugees this war in Pakistan is likely far from over despite the progress the Pakistani military is making within the Swat region. The fighters could potentially regroup at any number of locations as the Pakistanis are not likely to be checking every single group of refugees leaving the area for weapons or anything of the sort. With their military tied up combating the remaining fighters this potentially leaves a lot of extra space for the Taliban to maneuver, set up new insurgency cells, regroup to strike right at Islamabad, or even move to simply expand the war into the rest of Pakistan. This engagement in Pakistan is nothing more than the latest in a series of clashes between the Taliban and their opposition.

Edit:

Sorry wrong link and story This has been happening for a few weeks now a giant seesaw.



Well the fighting is spreading. This doesn't seem like the average uprising of a peasant militia to me. They are swarming outpost and then try to bleed into the remaining parts of the country along with thousands of refugees.

The Taliban were being trained by foreign mercenaries linked to al-Qaida, Khan said. "They are experts in IEDs [roadside bombs], sniper fire and explosives. Mostly Tajiks and Uzbeks, basically. They get paid for their expertise," he said.

This next bit seems more like wishful thinking than a realistic view of the situation.

I don't think the Taliban are going to fight once they see a consolidated effort against them. Their effort at getting into Mingora is to melt into the crowd, to move out with the exodus of refugees," he said. He predicted that a hardcore of fighters would retreat into remote valleys north of Mingora and try to sue for peace.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 26-5-2009 by SLAYER69]

Hey everybody who has contributed so far if you have something you would like to see specifically in the video please U2U me and let me know what it is. I want to also have some surprises for people

Firstoff, thanks to SLAYER69 for the invite and thread.

Afghanistan is known as "the Graveyard of Empires"...the British and Soviet world orders foundered on those rocky shores, and it has defeated others in history.

People have been talking about US imperial overstreach for a long time. Now the wolf is really at the door, so to speak. There are two dimensions to US imperial adventures: power and money. Often the two represent interests that coincide, but as the robe becomes more threadbare, as it were, the emeror's nakedness becomes more apparent.

The US miliarty is in bed with industrial players like Bell Hellicopter, Halliburton, the Carlyle group, etc. Their primary purpose is NOT to defend the nation, but rather to enrich themselves through fat contracts and sucking public money from the public coffers. They thus favor more traditional forms of warfare: they'd love an old-tumey trench war, with lines of soldiers, batillions of tanks, fleets of battle-carriers and fighter jets. In other words BIG, CLUNKY stuff that uses up lots and lots of steel and plastic and nylon and aluminum...this translates into MONEY for the hardware sellers.

However, it is impossible to fight a war in Afghanistan or Central Asia with this approach. If a war is to be fought there, it will involve lots of local knowledge and highly strategic strikes. Software over hardware. What is important is knowledge of local history and culture, the allegiance of locals in terms of power, a command of the cultural codes by which different groups operate, and so on. SURGICAL PRECISION.

Unfortuantely, this requires time, effort, and deep knowledge, and doesn't make money for the big boys. They are tying to remove a uterine tumor with a sledgehammer because that's all they know and want: more guns, more steel, more MONEY. Why bother training people to study the nuances of Pashtun language and culture for 20 years when you can get contracts to sell sets of socket wrenches to Uncle Sam for $25,000 bucks a pop?

The US presence in the region may indeed have been a desperate gamble to keep Russia and China away from the resources there. This makes good geostrategic sense. However, its impossible to do this effectively if you are in bed with a bunch of psycopaths in three-piece-suits whose only purpose is to enrich themselves by selling useless hardware. For a long time the US was rich enough to indulge these leaches while also employing sound and effective strategies. This is, sadly, no longer the case. The US needs to decide which it values more: long-term smart strategy or short-term enrichment of contrated industrial players. Unfortunately, one of the weaknesses of a democracy is that it easily morphs into a plutocracy. Without strong central command, long-term vision is impossible and the military turns into a free-for-all hog grub at the trough.

I fear that the Russians and Chinese, with their more centralized, less democratic traditions, may ultimately be able to play out long-term geostrategy without the distractions of big business, and this could give them a pronounced edge in the end.

Pakistan, once it's nuclear threat has been dealt with and neutralised, will once again become apart of India. The significance of Afghanistan originates back to 1838, the first Anglo-Afghan War, but the nation has a different purpose in the 21st Century.

It is not about democracy or Islamic extremism. Iran, indeed, is apart of the grand scheme as well. The Persian Gulf is becoming a major economic centre for growth, via sea, but there is the possible expansion of trade routes if Turkey joins the European Union.

The Western capitalist machine needs friendly governments who will welcome their finance with open arms - not accepting the red cheque book of the China. However, with India promoting herself - and accepting- as the world's largest democracy, China will struggle to resist the calls from the middle classes for democratic reforms.

Which the United States will advocate.

But, the European Union is more or less focused on Eastern Europe and the Caspian Sea. Oil, land and growing influence in Russia. Yes, officials in the European Union believe in Russian membership - Italian Prime Minister has gone on record.

I'll explain the military implications of the Indian Ocean and its significances towards Africa. The New Great Game and the New Scramble for Africa...

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hello my friend,

I would like to contribute to your post as it is very well in tune with way too many accurate points. Perhaps these few links will refresh peoples minds as people have a tendency to forget.







Democracy at its finest

I'm not pointing any fingers nor am I saying it has happened yet just a friendly reminder that at this point. I'll remind people that this is to be a frank and open discussion of the issue.

We are gathering information pertaining to the "New Great Game" The evidence presented may be viewed by many as propaganda or fact. We are not trying to create a thread with competing views. [I know that seems impossible] Rather just a compiling of the evidence as it makes itself available to the public via many different media outlet's and sources.

I realize there will be conflicting views and competing opinions. So in all fairness lets let the evidence be presented and speak for itself also lets try and set aside personal opinion and individual ideologies.

I understand for many its hard to set aside their emotions but lets try to set and maintain a higher standard.

Thanks again

Slay

I don't heard much Iran and Pakistan trash talking these days or
am I out of the loop in this New Great Game.
The initiative of 911 has worn down.
I know creep Connie is out of the loop thank our lucky stars that
are not UFOs.
Iran videos will do as much as 911 videos did, nothing.
Its the people that will make the history of the New Great Game
and perhaps the Bush and Republican history is dead for all time
now with the Obama people setting a New Great Game.
If we learned something from the years on the net through
the turmoil of the Bush Years of his Great Game, it depends
on the players.
With out the power to eliminate the players, as with JFK Jr,
they can't win the New Great Game anymore.

I'm really digging the insight and concept of this thread.

I'm absorbing it well. Good stuff.

The refugees, yes......I wanted to touch base on that.

Spec-ops, nice note on humanitarian crisis potential. It appears there'rs one already developing in the region. Numbers are already up to circa 1.7 million refugees.
In the meantime all the crops are rotting in the fields, and even if the fighting happens to stop (which is very unlikely), internally displaced people still won't be able to feed, survive upon return. So, the crisis, imo is inevitable at this point, and will only get (much) worse.
There are notes that (already) it has become Pakistan's worse crisis.

The crisis is being labeled as the worst-ever in Pakistan’s history and I believe it is one of the biggest challenges faced by the PPP (Pakistan People’s Party) led government in Pakistan. It is also a challenge for the ANP that leads the provincial government in the NWFP.

source: globalvoicesonline.org...

(buttered up) Council on Foreign relations:

It takes a while for the registration processes [by which] the government formally recognizes them as being displaced and [they are] allowed to access services.

With all the resources, you're telling me they are fumbling to even register these people? How about start by FEEDING these people!

About 80 percent or 90 percent of the displaced people are actually relying on the hospitality of family and friends in nearby areas--districts like Swabi, Mardan, Charsadda, and Nowshera--that are around Swat, Buner, and Lower Dir

www.cfr.org...#

Again, where's the UN when we "really" need them.?

On a positive note, I noticed Turkey (also) began the effort:
www.todayszaman.com...

Originally posted by Ben Niceknowinya
I'm really digging the insight and concept of this thread.

I'm absorbing it well. Good stuff.

Exactly try to imagine us all as unbiased sports commentators.
Each of us bringing to the table reports, data and individual pieces of the puzzle and trying to see how each countries involvements will impact the others in this Great Game, while fitting those puzzle pieces together to see the great picture.

I think it's a rather cool concept myself.
People who would generally find themselves at odds with each other are now collaborating for a better understanding of the whole.



[edit on 26-5-2009 by SLAYER69]

The humanitarian crisis will have to be addressed. I heard the US pledge some help last week. I am still weary of how much of that aid will reach the needy.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday the United States was sending $110 million in emergency humanitarian aid to Pakistan, part of the administration's new strategy for countering the appeal of Taliban militants in the nuclear-armed American ally.

Clinton detailed the aid package at the White House, saying the money is flowing to ease the plight of about 2 million Pakistanis who have fled fighting in the country's Swat Valley and are living in squalid tent cities.

www.cbsnews.com...

reply to post by jam321


Like always, this will end up on black market and both sides will spend the money on weapons.

So it's not a gift at all.

I was reading this article about how Obama's plan in Pakistan differs from Bush and it seems to be in funding.

How does Obama's approach differ from Bush's approach?

One major contrast behind the Obama-Holbrooke [Richard Holbrooke, U.S. Special Representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan] approach and the Bush approach is the funding. Earlier, under Bush, our military assistance and funding for Pakistan was roughly ten times the size of what we were providing in non-military assistance.

Today that is being rebalanced. The military assistance will be sustained, but it will be outweighed by a larger economic package for reconstruction and development, and to help promote the economies of the tribal areas. It’s geared to help Pakistan modernize, which means public health initiatives, women’s literacy, energy infrastructure.

There was very little of that happening during the Bush administration.

Now, we’re spending $800 million a year for the military side, and $1.5 billion for the economic, social and development side.

www.usip.org...

However, I fail to see the difference because I don't see how the Obama administration can be assured that that the economic money will be used for the economic, social, and development side of Pakistan. What is there in place to ensure that the money the US gives Pakistan will be used for its intended purposes?

reply to post by jam321


They are creating conditions for healthy cheap labor to run GM, IBM and other "American" outsourced industries. That is the plan in my opinion.

But in the USA everything collapses to the point of turning American labor into a third world cheap labor. Then there will be "recovery" from recession.

Great plan!

Interesting perspective here well worth the time to listen. I found it a fasinating piece.

Let me know what you all think.

10/16/08 -- Former CIA officer Robert Baer makes the case that the US has unwittingly made Iran an emerging superpower. Dr. Trita Parsi argues that allowing Iran to use enriched uranium for fuel under the strict guidelines of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty puts the US in a strong position against nuclear weaponization and avoids engaging in a third war in the Middle East. Hammer Forums is an ongoing series of timely, thought-provoking events adressing current social and political issues.

A Third War: The Threat of War With Iran Hammer Forum Part 6 Of 9

[edit on 26-5-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by tristar

Hello my friend,

I would like to contribute to your post as it is very well in tune with way too many accurate points. Perhaps these few links will refresh peoples minds as people have a tendency to forget.

Thank you my friend. That addition was truly a superb one on your part. I had never seen the interviews in their entirety before (I haven’t actually turned on the TV in 14 months now, I am afraid what they broadcast these days might be stronger than my tinfoil had now that the economy has caused me to go with the generic store brand of tinfoil!)
Just a couple of snippets including the infamous Mason’s handshake Larry King and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinjad, so it was a real treat to see it in it’s entirety.

I spent several of my formative rearing years living in the Washington D.C. suburbs and then later in Los Angeles. Both cities had large Persian communities and I guess it gives you a whole different perspective on people of other cultures when you start engaging them as a child in your youth and learn their culture at the same time they are learning their own culture. Later when I got older and into the business world I always found Persians, and Iranians pleasant to do business with. They are typically good negotiators but after they get the best deal they can, they tend to be the first to offer to pick up the tab for dinner and drinks and their manners and cordialness I have found have always been exceptional.

They tend to be very proud of their 6,000 years of cultural history and things like the Roman Ruins at Persepolis which they maintain as a vast part of their cultural heritage.

After World War II and the Iranians were looking to end their not to favorable split of the Oil Contracts they had with British interests the CIA more or less stepped up to the plate to restore the Peacock Throne that was originally the Mughal throne of India but was later used for the Persian Emperors which Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi was the very last of at the time of the Iranian Revolution. The CIA had installed the Shah’s father into it during the early 1950’s to replace a populist national President who was keen to get the Oil Contracts out of British hands, and once he did then the CIA helped stage a coup that brought the Peacock Throne back and put the Oil Contracts in American Hands.

Persians/Iranians are Asians not Middle Easterners or Arabs and this is something most Americans are completely unaware of.

If you visit CIA.org and peruse their online Library for documents released under the Freedom of Information Act you will see from about 1946 at the time of the CIA’s founding to about 1949, the CIA was extremely concerned about the impact Israel would have on the region.

We had learned one very valuable lesson in World War II which was the first all mechanized war, and that was War Machines ground to a halt without Oil. It was about all the Germans could do in late 1944 to put together the Battle of the Bulge counter attack against the allies they were so short on oil, and while they still had plenty of man power, they knew it was their last chance at winning the war because they had to tap all their oil reserves practically to do it. The Luftwaffe would no longer be able to fly for lack of gasoline; the Panzers would no longer be able to roll for lack of Gasoline.

At the end of the war when President Roosevelt was coming back from the Malta Conference between him Stalin and Churchill to parcel up post war Europe, President Roosevelt actually detoured on his way back to meet with the Saudi Monarch to personally thank him for the Saudi’s roll in keeping the Allied War Machines humming along with gas. The Saudi Monarch counseled the President that it would be more or less disastrous to the region to allow unfettered Zionist Immigration in to Palestine as it would likely embroil the entire region in tensions that could have an impact on Oil supplies and delivery. Roosevelt was dead set against an Israeli Nation and Truman was initially as well until a late night meeting at the White House the night before the historic first U.N. General Assembly in San Francisco the next day. Several prominent Jewish-American businessmen arrived at the White House late that evening unannounced and without appointment and secured a meeting with the President and somehow managed to change his mind. There is of course lot’s of speculation as to how they changed his mind, but the reality is they did change his mind and for the next 4 years the CIA’s reports to the President regarding Israel clearly demonstrated that the Israel nation was the number one threat to American prosperity at the time, primarily because of the impact the volatile circumstances of it’s independence could create on America’s vital oil supplies.

Around 1950 more and more of the reports flowing to the White House from the CIA regarding Israel became increasingly redacted so it’s not possible to really get all the details from reading what has been released under the Freedom of Information Act. Probably the most telling aspect in and of itself is the CIA continued to refer to the region as Palestine and not Israel.

Around 1951 or so the reports started taking on a whole new tone, where almost overnight it was almost as if the CIA was now looking out for Israel’s continued existence in lockstep with Israel and was actively looking for ways to counter the liability such a partnership might incur.

The Shah’s installment as the Iranian ruler was more or less to secure Iran’s vast oil supplies would be controlled by the United States and American companies and could be counted on in the event of a punitive Oil Embargo by a consortium of Arab petroleum producing states, against the United States for supporting Israel.

As someone who is old enough to have lived through the two Oil Embargos that were levied against the United States in the early 1970’s, I can tell you that not only did that Iranian supply make all the difference in the world as far as keeping the United States oil run Infrastructure functioning, that it was also barely enough. The Government had to impose Odd/Even Rationing where you could only fill up on the days that the last digit of your vehicles license plate ended in. If it was odd you could only go to the gas station on odd days, if it was even you could only go to the gas station on even days. 10 Gallons was the limit and some stations limited you to just 5 and most American Cars at the time got around 11-15 miles a gallon on the highway and around 9 or 10 miles per gallon in the city.

Many of my Persian clients living in the United States were former agents of the SAVAK. The SAVAK was the Iranian CIA and they operated independent of the Shah himself and were notorious for their Human Rights Violations. During the Shah’s reign Iran was a 2 class nation. The rich elite who were notorious International Jet Setters, who spent little time in Iran but mostly in Paris, London, Washington D.C., New York and Los Angeles shopping at expensive boutiques or attending star studded galas, or being educated at the world’s finest universities. The rest of Iran was dirt poor, lived in abject squalor and was brutally repressed by the SAVAK.

Because the Iranians are actually Asian and Iran is on the Asian Continent and not the Middle East, they really did not care about Israel or the difficulty the Arabs were having with Israel. In many ways Iran was an unspoken ally of Israel during this period and there was quite a bit of behind the scenes cooperation between the Shah’s government and Tel Aviv.

Eventually the tide turned when the student revolutionary movement looked to the Koran and Islam and the exiled Ayatollah Khomeini to rally around and seized the American Embassy and almost its entire staff for over a year which all but destroyed the Carter Administration.

The only real issue Iran has with the United States is once the Revolution finally succeeded in establishing a solid Government that neither the SAVAK, British Mercenaries or the CIA instigated War between Iraq and Iran could dislodge the United States and the American Oil Companies lost their contracts on the Iranian Oil Fields that had by that time Nationalized and thrown out the American Corporate Managers of them.

In retaliation the U.S. Government froze all Iranian National assets in the U.S. Banks which were sizable, and failed to deliver on a number of Military and Industrial purchases the Iranians had previously paid for.

Iran’s only complaint against the United States is 30 years later it would still like those Assets unfrozen and compensated for the materials it had bought that were never delivered.

In many ways our whole grudge against the Iranians on the behind the scenes sans public propaganda level is that American companies lost their Oil Contracts and we lost the strategic edge that having Iranian Oil to count on gave us in the event of a broad Middle East war or further Oil Boycotts brought on by Carte Blanche support for all things Israel.

That in a nutshell is what really happened, on the layer right below the propaganda surface, what might really be happening a layer or two below that in regards to hidden cooperation between Israel and the U.S.A. is anyone’s guess who isn’t high in the intelligence communities.

Todays tour in "Great Game" news has been again interesting and educative... Also freightening. What I would raise top strory for today is this:

Georgian opposition warns of 'radical acts'

TBILISI, May 26 (RIA Novosti) - Georgia's opposition, which has been demanding the president's resignation for around two months, said it planned to start "radical acts" on Tuesday.

"Today we will seal the railway, from today we will start the most radical acts," Eka Beselia of the Movement for United Georgia, said at a rally outside the Georgian parliament.

en.rian.ru...

- Georgia is in edge. NATO drills are not welcomed even by its own citizens, and president of the country doesnt have trust from its own people. After talks with opposition was cancelled two weeks ago - Opposition has make their moves ready to open fight against government, which doesnt accept ther demand to share the power - or wont resign. I think uprising is now starting - and international forces still on country - Russian army at positions at South Ossetia and Abhazia - everything is soon possible. REAL HOTSPOT OF GREAT GAME TO FOLLOW NOW!

Georgian opposition gathers for final push
www.russiatoday.com...

- More from Russia - SCO side in Great Game?

Russia stands by Hezbollah on Der Spiegel
www.presstv.ir...

Russia's first Persian Gulf naval presence coordinated with Tehran

Russian warships are due to call Wednesday, May 27, at the Bahrain port of Manama, seat of the US Fifth Fleet in the Persian Gulf, DEBKAfile's military sources reveal. They will be following in the wake of the Russian vessels already docked at the Omani port of Salalah, the first to avail themselves of facilities at Gulf ports.

Their arrival is fully coordinated between the Russian and Iranian naval commands.

According to our sources, this is the first time a Russian flotilla will have taken on provisions and fuel at the same Gulf ports which hitherto serviced only the US Navy. Moscow has thus gained its first maritime foothold in the Persian Gulf.

www.debka.com...

Armored brigade chief: We're preparing for 'classic' war
www.ynetnews.com...

Israeli attack on Iran tantamount to US declaration of war: expert
www.irna.ir...

Lets look some interesting political news from "The Great Game" ...

Obama to visit Saudi Arabia June 3 to discuss Iran
www.reuters.com...

France opens PG base amid Israeli regional war threat
www.presstv.ir...

Zardari: My visit to Iran gives great impetus to bilateral ties
www.irna.ir...

Tajikistan urges further cooperation with Iran
www.irna.ir...

Turkmenistan, Germany to step up oil and gas cooperation
www.irna.ir...

And to the end of this overlook - Pakistan is widening its war!

Pakistani army takes the war to S Waziristan
www.presstv.ir...

Tanks roll into S Waziristan
www.nation.com.pk...

... Lets keep the focus on "The Great Game"