The Gorman UFO Dogfight

There have been reports of pilots shooting at Venus, the Morning star, because it looks so bright in the sky they mistake it for the lights of an enemy aircraft, but it only takes them a few minutes to figure out what it is. Something that is tens of thousands of miles away, or light years away, appears stationary in the sky. It does not move, it does not appear to ever be getting any closer.

This guy was a combat veteran, a highly skilled pilot, who trained other pilots. He had to have considerable skill in determining attitude, and knowing where the ground was, and how an object was moving around him in order to survive fighter combat. To think this guy thought he was dogfighting with a star, you would have to assume that he totally lost it. Basically, the temporarily insanity claim. It is the same claim made to discredit all of these very credible, multiple witness accounts of UFOs. This might work for a few credible accounts such as this, but when you look at the numerous credible accounts of UFO encounters out there, this temporary insanity debunk loses pretty much all credibility.

reply to post by badmedia


Ok, I think I have seen you explain this before, now that You have described what your avatar is. Thanks for the reply.

Considering the evasive maneuvers this orb took, I would say it was something physical, controlled by another source.

Sorry for posting so late. I just saw your post today.
Great find. You've done a great job of compiling this information.

S & F



[edit on 25-5-2009 by SLAYER69]

Weinstein Pilot Catalog.pdf


That is a good source that covers all the pilot-UFO encounters throughout the years, if anyone wants to investigate it further.

[edit on 5/25/2009 by jkrog08]

The one thing a fighter combat pilot has zero experience of is fighting a stationary object millions of miles away.

I would expect him to be aware of the location of the threat every second, and use that as his spatial point of reference.

His second critical point of reference as a pilot is the horizon line.

So now he begins three dimensional combat maneuvers keeping the relative position of the object and the horizon in mind. Along with the distance to the ground. Since he is not looking for specific indicators that the object is stationary and millions of miles away, I think it reasonable to assume that the more intense a combat pilot he was, the less likely he was to discover that he was jousting with the moon!

If others could do it for several minutes, he could do it for 15.

Now after 15 minutes do you admit you were jousting with the moon, or just leave it a mystery and report the SOP?

To counter my argument, you have only to explain how the object is the same visual size no matter how far away or close you are to it!



[edit on 25-5-2009 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by Cyberbian

To counter my argument, you have only to explain how the object is the same visual size no matter how far away or close you are to it!

The only person that got a good look at the size was Lt. Gorman. The others said "it looked like a bright, white light. Like one seen on the tail of a plane. Also the witnesses in the air and ground saw this object change direction many times, all from different points of reference. This was not a mirage.

[edit on 5/25/2009 by jkrog08]

Oh my God, WHY aren't I related to him????

I swear to you all, If I was related, I would leak stuff for the hell of it.

Anyway, good read purely on the basis of alloying me to use my imagination and put me into the story.

reply to post by Gorman91


LOL, it was odd seeing you as the last member to reply.... "Gorman91"........LOL....


Anyways what do you think of the case?

reply to post by jkrog08


Good read from what I did read. I don't have time to read it all right now though.

As I mentioned in earlier discussions with you, I strongly believe in UFOs, just not humanoid aliens.

As my knowledge of physics grows and how to use it for man's advancement does too, these ufo stories of "blinking blobs" become more and more so plausible, even with the wild maneuvers of the alien craft. If one could wrap themselves in slowed down time, IE, a gravity well, the affect to the outside observer would be a dark blob, where light cannot reach. However, to the same principal, if one were to wrap themselves in constructive gravity waves, thus accelerating time, IE, faster than light travel, the effect would be a pulsating white blob (or line if you are moving). The blob would be if you were going at bellow light speed velocity, but still using the device which warped space, because a lot of light would be leaving the area, and any light the ship produces, such as from engines, would be ejected out at rapid speeds. More light being produced within the warped space-time than outside would cause the outside observer to see a large white blob of light, possibly pulsating due to the warping device being some sort of wave generator in and of itself. And of course, those wild maneuvers would simply be the craft moving faster than your own relativity of time.

So yes, it it plausible.

PS, this Gorman fella is the same exact personality as me, except for smoking. I don't do that. If past lives exist, I'd be inclined to think I was him. lol.

reply to post by Cyberbian


I didn't read that the object appeared to be the exact size where ever it was seen, only that from his observation, he thought it was a particular size. There is a big difference between the two understandings.

I think a fighter pilots ability to determine the movements of his adversary would be extremely critical, and that would include recognizing that he was fighting something that was stationary, or moving very slowly. If, as a fighter pilot, he had any experience as an attack pilot shooting targets on the ground, he most certainly would know how to judge fixed or slow moving targets. His knowledge of the horizon alone would have indicated to him that the object in question was a star. Earth is in this direction, and this light seems to be way up there away from the horizon, and I can't get any closer. Hmm, what could it be?

If the object was a star how do you explain the multiple witnesses seeing it move, and Gormans testimony that it took multiple "intelligent" actions to avoid his aircraft?

EDIT to add: Accidentally hit the reply to instead of general reply

[edit on 5/28/2009 by jkrog08]

[edit on 5/28/2009 by jkrog08]

Yea, I really do believe my explanation fully explains it. The technology is quite easy to imagine, just difficult to build to our current standards. If you had a few trillion you could build such a craft.

By the way jkrog08, did I ever send you my work on a warp engine? I think you'd really be interested in it. It's actually quite possible that this craft had something like it. A physicist and I discussed the possible application to do it, and we both agreed that my design was interesting, but he was still studying physics and couldn't explain it yet. Tell me if you'd like to see the designs.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Gorman91]

Well I hope this is getting out to enough people, especially the ones who are " alien agnostic" and undecided. This was is one of the "three classics" according to Blue Book. It is a very compelling case and I wanted to present it in such a manner that is detailed and neutral. The only bad thing about a lot of these cases, as ATS member internos has said many times, there isn't a lot of evidence other than testimony, no pictures or anything like that. But that still should not take away from the greatness of the case. Just wanted to add this in so people know I am still monitoring the thread and if you have any questions feel free to ask!

Came straight over here from your Mantell case thread, just as thorough and well put together, hmmm, its intersting just how small that object was, and Gormon, your warp theory which relies on the relativity on the observer is pretty interesting, hmmm, though would that imply its not actually going that fast, and only appears to be, I dont think the ats the case personally, think I could have hugely mis-understood

reply to post by Outlawstar


Great to see you are following the cases, have you viewed my newest one yet? It is the Chiles-Whitted Incident, you can go to it on my signature when you ae done here, it concludes the thread 'trilogy' on the three classics of blue book.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by Outlawstar

 

Great to see you are following the cases, have you viewed my newest one yet? It is the Chiles-Whitted Incident, you can go to it on my signature when you ae done here, it concludes the thread 'trilogy' on the three classics of blue book.

Sweet, hey Im trying to check it out, but the link is leading me to a page that says"the url is not valid".........weird.

reply to post by Outlawstar


www.abovetopsecret.com...

All fixed Fee free to add comments in there as well.

reply to post by jkrog08


Truly an asset to ATS! Another Star & Flag....
Acitve conversion in process! With evidence like this...how long can I remain a skeptic?

reply to post by burntheships


Glad to see you following my links,lol. Obviously my ads work!

Seriously though, I am glad you are seeing the truth my friend.

Here is the first part of this 'trilogy' of the "Blue Book Best of the late 40's".....www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by jkrog08
Well I hope this is getting out to enough people, especially the ones who are " alien agnostic" and undecided. This was is one of the "three classics" according to Blue Book. It is a very compelling case and I wanted to present it in such a manner that is detailed and neutral. The only bad thing about a lot of these cases, as ATS member internos has said many times, there isn't a lot of evidence other than testimony, no pictures or anything like that. But that still should not take away from the greatness of the case. Just wanted to add this in so people know I am still monitoring the thread and if you have any questions feel free to ask!

But after awhile when they keep saying essentially the same thing, these witnesses statements add up. It's the aviation professionals who are ultimately the most convincing. It's the preponderance of the evidence, not a reasonable doubt thing.