The Science of God

"If a species is not careful, it can easily create it's own extinction"

This commment is so true. I have seen it. Tiny mites on a plant, in an organized enclosed environment. Fighting to live when their vital resources are removed.

The question of wether or not time had a strarting point is rather ambiguous. It is a construct of those who are able to perceice it/measure it/live in it. Time is of the essence....

This is not true. Time predates any big bang. A big bang or little bang, even a gang bang is just one pulse in the larger expanse of time. Time has no beginning and no end. This is true. There is now, before and the future. The beginning and end time is a product of humans desperately seeking meaning.... humans are usually wrong.

Originally posted by FeedingTheRat
This is not true. Time predates any big bang. A big bang or little bang, even a gang bang is just one pulse in the larger expanse of time. Time has no beginning and no end. This is true. There is now, before and the future. The beginning and end time is a product of humans desperately seeking meaning.... humans are usually wrong.

What is your definition of time? Because if it the fourth dimensional property of space-time that you are referring to, then it did not always exist. I think you might have it backwards. The ideas of past, present and future are truly human ideas and time's passage is relative. You can think about "the time BEFORE the big bang", sure, but only in a figurative sense. But technically, the singularity that our universe sprang out of could not have existed within another space-time.

Think of it this way:

I pick up a book and I am able to read it an six hours. At the time I finished, can I tell you that it took me six hours to read the book? Or do I tell you that it took me an infinite amount of time to read the book because I have to count the time BEFORE I started reading it?

Originally posted by FeedingTheRat
This is not true. Time predates any big bang. A big bang or little bang, even a gang bang is just one pulse in the larger expanse of time. Time has no beginning and no end. This is true. There is now, before and the future. The beginning and end time is a product of humans desperately seeking meaning.... humans are usually wrong.

Prove it.

reply to post by Toughiv
It is now. It was before. Here comes the future.

What's to prove. We made up time to describe now, before and later. We made up God to fill in all the gaps. We more recently figured out that the god thing is really just a silly construct for controlling people. There is no science of god. God is like a sculpture or a Colonel Sanders statue. It's a thing. We don't need a god of any kind to deal with now, before and later. See ya later.

Oh, here's a proof. When you were beating your lover earlier today he cried out "no, please, later". You screamed back "The time is now. Later we can have Applebee's and more of that delicious kool-aide". Let's re-cap. Earlier (The past) you were beating your lover. Later (The Future) you promised good times at Applebees. In between you found time to build on the knowledge of man by typing your wisdoms and challenges into the lets connect god to science cobb salad of a story. All we know is that there is now, there was before and from past experience there well be a future. That's all there is n there aint no more. We don't need a god, we don't need a beginning and we don't need an end. l'chaim.

Time doesn't really exist though. The way I understand it, all that there ever is, is right NOW. The past is a memory, a pattern. The experience of remembering the past even happens in the now/the present. That's all there is. The future is just an idea, but again, never comes because we are always HERE NOW.

Time is arbitrary. It can be used to measure movement from our perspective, but, on higher levels that movement doesn't really exist. (kind of like the whole "a person looks like a worm from the 4th dimension" thing.)

Originally posted by The Real Josh
Time doesn't really exist though. The way I understand it, all that there ever is, is right NOW. The past is a memory, a pattern. The experience of remembering the past even happens in the now/the present. That's all there is. The future is just an idea, but again, never comes because we are always HERE NOW.

Time is arbitrary. It can be used to measure movement from our perspective, but, on higher levels that movement doesn't really exist. (kind of like the whole "a person looks like a worm from the 4th dimension" thing.)

The measurement of time is arbitrary. But time as the fourth dimension of space-time is not.

Just a random unasked for comment on the subject of time being a dimension. I don't think it is. I think time is an abstract idea. More or less, it's just something that just "happens".

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Just a random unasked for comment on the subject of time being a dimension. I don't think it is. I think time is an abstract idea. More or less, it's just something that just "happens".

Personally, I welcome all comments, my friend.

Time is the fourth dimension of spacetime. I think people get confused between that and talking about the fourth dimension spatially.

The abstraction you are talking about is the MEASUREMENT of time, since it is relative to the observer (per Einstein).

reply to post by DaMod

You need to tell me in detail where I went wrong and perhaps a suggestion for the future.

Spoonfeed you, do you mean? Forget it. I operate via the Socratic method.

You should not just say well this is wrong and that is wrong, well can you prove this?

Did you read the link I posted? It's got all the answers you need, and will show you in detail where you went wrong on the physics part. As to why your initial example is invalid, I explained that. But here's a further hint, if you'll take it: look at your initial statement ('the universe is either eternal or created') and see how many prior assumptions it contains about the nature of time, causality, etc. Then ask yourself what basis you have for assuming that things have always gone the merry old way they do now.

What degrees do you have? What books have you read? It would be nice to know something about someone that tells you that you are wrong.

I could tell you I was Gerard t'Hooft in real life. How would you know I was telling the truth?

Instead of asking me silly questions, find someone in real life who really knows physics (has at least a bachelor's degree in the subject) and ask them for their comments. You'll soon find out who's right and who's wrong.

Educate me.

Certainly. Here's Hexagram Four of the I Ching for your contemplation and edification.

reply to post by SugarCube

As one citizen of the universe to another, nice work.

It's pleasant that long-dead thinkers often anticipated modern scientific ideas. One of my favourites is Anaximander of Miletus, who conceived of symmetry breaking way back around 600BC.

According to him, the Universe originates in the separation of opposites in the primordial matter. It embraces the opposites of hot and cold, wet and dry, and directs the movement of things; an entire host of shapes and differences then grow that are found in "all the worlds" (for he believed there were many). Anaximander maintains that all dying things are returning to the element from which they came (apeiron).

Source

By the way, anyone who naively believes that 'something cannot come from nothing' should familiarize themselves with the concept of symmetry breaking. OP, there's another hint for you.

Originally posted by Eitimzevinten
reply to post by spy66

 

Light can and does change. If you need proof.......

That's all i wanted to tell you earlier.

But you didn't agree to that before, but now you do. And now we both agree

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by SugarCube

 

By the way, anyone who naively believes that 'something cannot come from nothing' should familiarize themselves with the concept of symmetry breaking. OP, there's another hint for you.

I must be a naive person because i don't believe things can come from nothing. Things must have a source and a explanation.

I know some people will bring out the observation been done with the matter that just appeared out of nowhere, and disappeared without a trace.
But that doesn't mean it came from nothing.

reply to post by spy66


I dont know anything as advanced as breaking symmetry. However, I would ask why you believe that something cannot come from nothing?

Is it because you are trapped in the mind-frame of cause and effect? What we have to remember is "the time before" the big bang is completely different to what we experience now. Laws of logic etc were created when the Big Bang happened. As soon as mass was created we therefore had time v = s/t.

Thirdly, if you have "nothing" you actually have something

I dont actually think there can ever be...nothing.

reply to post by Astyanax


But isn't symmetry breaking still contingent on an external force or action?
And is symmetry breaking a concept in quantam physics, if so qp is largely theoretical anyway, right?

reply to post by mrmrmikee

There need not be God in order to have order, it could be something or someone else, but personally, I live in fear of what I don't know, more than I live in pride of what I do know.

"It's better to live as though there were a God and find out there isn't one, then than the other way around!" - Einstein

Another thing to take into consideration is our human concept of infinite. Just because our universe is performing an action that will repeat itself an infinite number of times, it does not necessarily mean that it was always performing that action. Events within finite time can lead to infinite repetition.