The True Face of Iraq

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by BasementAddix

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by BasementAddix
So in your opinion leaving Saddam in power would have made Iraq better off?....I think not....

My whole point is, why should it ever have concerned us? It shouldn't have! Have you ever heard the phrase, "Mind your own business"? Well, that's what America doesn't do anymore. That's why we're so hated. It has nothing to do with our culture. It has everything to do with our actions, and the actions we allow our gov't to take.

[Edited on 4-29-2004 by Satyr]

Mind our own business?...what are we...China?...So the strong should just get the weaker countries get abused?...Maybe we should have let Kuwait suffer....or Poland for that matter...why not the whole of Europe during WW2?....Cause the Germans did offer us a peace treaty before we entered the war....Its our job...no...our duty to help if we can....Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of his own people for no reason...a few hundred Iraqi's dying accidently for a good cause is no comparison...

There's a difference between helping, and getting involved. Getting involved should only happen if there is a definite threat to America. Otherwise, we could waste a fortune in money, and lives, trying to fix the world. It's not our job to police the world, period. Maybe you should rethink that theory. It's the reason nearly 3000 Americans got killed on 9/11, and it'll be the reason we're attacked again.

So if America was run by Saddam...Milosevic...any of them....you wouldnt want England to come in a change that?...You want to be ruled w/o rights?...If anyone here does...please let me know...If we arent going to police the world who is?...no-one...and the crap will just build...ie the Clinton Era...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
Shotek...YES we sent troops to Bosnia....and YES we tried to help both Palestine and Isreal...its a world powers job to be involved...and we dont always help for our own benefit...what did we get out of the first persian gulf war?...a new president..thats about it...how bout ww2?...somalia?...the billion dollars we sent to Africa for Aids?...we got squat back....did we get anything back from Afghanistan?...yea...terrorism....so cut the nonsense...and stop thinking of what our media spits....

"Help" in Bosnia and with the Palestinian situation have both been near nothing. This is besides the point, if you choose to believe we are trying to help the world The whole reason for this war was based on the threat of WMD, that is THE REASON we got approval from congress, and NO WEAPONS HAVE BEEN FOUND, so now you people are trying to say it is good anyway because we helped out, yea ok. Read up some facts on dead Iraqis from US actions...and again, read your history book for plenty of examples of Fvcking up on the part of the US. I think one thing that proves it to me we aren't trying to help Iraqis is because of the fact that we were still sending them biological weapons after they used them against Iran, and gassed the Kurds, but of course we only do things in our own interest...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
If we arent going to police the world who is?...no-one...and the crap will just build...ie the Clinton Era...

Umm...that's just it. No one should "police the world", we should just stick to our own damn country and problems. International law clearly defines our current war as a war of aggression, which is illegal.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

Bosnia and Palestine are "near nothing"?...Tell that to the familys of soldiers who died in Bosnia...And I never said the US govt had Holy intentions in going into Iraq...but they werent totally negative either...Saddam knew we were coming...you think he would have kept his WMD's just laying around?...I dont like the fact that lying took place either...but still...in my heart of hearts...and from what Ive heard from soldier friends who have been there and back...that it is and will be a better place w/o Saddam.....

Originally posted by Shoktek
Umm...that's just it. No one should "police the world", we should just stick to our own damn country and problems. International law clearly defines our current war as a war of aggression, which is illegal.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

Yeah, Hitler loved when we did that

Don't speak in absolutes. Yes, we are our own country. But what happens in the world affects us.

By isolationsit logic, if your neighbor's house is burning down, you shouldn't try to put it out, because it isn't your problem. But when the fire grows, it has a good chance of spreading to your own house. Stopping the problem in it's infancy prevents it from causing you harm in the future.

Originally posted by Shoktek

Originally posted by BasementAddix
If we arent going to police the world who is?...no-one...and the crap will just build...ie the Clinton Era...

Umm...that's just it. No one should "police the world", we should just stick to our own damn country and problems. International law clearly defines our current war as a war of aggression, which is illegal.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

I partially agree...Yes we have important issues in the US that needs major addressing...but at the same time...we need to help other countries in the world...we are the only ones with the resources to do such a thing...

I wonder if this is what were supposed to be doing in Iraq? Is this what we're supposed to be proud of? Now, can anyone deny my claim that we shouldn't be there?

whatreallyhappened.com...

Originally posted by Esoterica

Originally posted by Shoktek
Umm...that's just it. No one should "police the world", we should just stick to our own damn country and problems. International law clearly defines our current war as a war of aggression, which is illegal.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

Yeah, Hitler loved when we did that

Don't speak in absolutes. Yes, we are our own country. But what happens in the world affects us.

By isolationsit logic, if your neighbor's house is burning down, you shouldn't try to put it out, because it isn't your problem. But when the fire grows, it has a good chance of spreading to your own house. Stopping the problem in it's infancy prevents it from causing you harm in the future.

Very nicely stated.... ...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
Bosnia and Palestine are "near nothing"?...Tell that to the familys of soldiers who died in Bosnia

Since when did I say that? The help we gave them was near nothing, specifically the Palestinians, we haven't done #. Clinton did help the Bosnians a while back I'll say that much.

Originally posted by Colonel
I wonder if this is what were supposed to be doing in Iraq? Is this what we're supposed to be proud of? Now, can anyone deny my claim that we shouldn't be there?

whatreallyhappened.com...

Dont let a few rotten apples f-it up for the rest of them...

Originally posted by Esoterica
Don't speak in absolutes. Yes, we are our own country. But what happens in the world affects us.

By isolationsit logic, if your neighbor's house is burning down, you shouldn't try to put it out, because it isn't your problem. But when the fire grows, it has a good chance of spreading to your own house. Stopping the problem in it's infancy prevents it from causing you harm in the future.

Well yea, I'm all for helping out if someone REALLY needs it, or if it will possibly be a threat in the future...but the current situation is not like that. You can't realistically expect us to help anyone out in the world who might be having some trouble, and in Iraq it is arguable whether or not they are better or worse off anyway.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

Originally posted by Shoktek

Originally posted by BasementAddix
Bosnia and Palestine are "near nothing"?...Tell that to the familys of soldiers who died in Bosnia

Since when did I say that? The help we gave them was near nothing, specifically the Palestinians, we haven't done #. Clinton did help the Bosnians a while back I'll say that much.

Let me re-quote...we DID nearly nothing...and as for the Palestinians...I have trouble feeling very much pitty for them...almost every treaty they have signed...they also broke...they attacked Isreal in 67...lost...and still were allowed to stay...they weekly send suicide bombers into Isreal to kill civilians...its hard to feel much for them...

Originally posted by Shoktek

Originally posted by Esoterica
Don't speak in absolutes. Yes, we are our own country. But what happens in the world affects us.

By isolationsit logic, if your neighbor's house is burning down, you shouldn't try to put it out, because it isn't your problem. But when the fire grows, it has a good chance of spreading to your own house. Stopping the problem in it's infancy prevents it from causing you harm in the future.

Well yea, I'm all for helping out if someone REALLY needs it, or if it will possibly be a threat in the future...but the current situation is not like that. You can't realistically expect us to help anyone out in the world who might be having some trouble, and in Iraq it is arguable whether or not they are better or worse off anyway.

[Edited on 30-4-2004 by Shoktek]

The people of Iraq didnt really need it?... ....I think they needed it more then most...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
I have trouble feeling very much pitty for them...almost every treaty they have signed...they also broke...they attacked Isreal in 67...lost...and still were allowed to stay...they weekly send suicide bombers into Isreal to kill civilians...its hard to feel much for them...

Using your quote:
"Dont let a few rotten apples f-it up for the rest of them"

Let me post this part here, in case you missed it.

U.S Financial Aid To Israel:
Figures, Facts, and Impact

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

There you go...a few stats for you. How much do you want to help, eh? Enough to give up your quality of life? I don't guess this matters to you? That's what you're supporting. You must be rich! I'm not. I can't help people I don't even know, nor do I want to.

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Shoktek

Originally posted by BasementAddix
I have trouble feeling very much pitty for them...almost every treaty they have signed...they also broke...they attacked Isreal in 67...lost...and still were allowed to stay...they weekly send suicide bombers into Isreal to kill civilians...its hard to feel much for them...

Using your quote:
"Dont let a few rotten apples f-it up for the rest of them"

Its a hellova lot more then a few...

Originally posted by BasementAddix
The people of Iraq didnt really need it?...

....I think they needed it more then most...

As I already said, we were the ones who sent them the weapons in the first place, and I doubt that would have happened if we felt so much concern for the Iraqi civilians. And no, what was happening wasn't of any global importance concerning us, and not enough to send troops over there to be killed, along with thousands of innocent iraqi civilians killed in bombings, more innocents being killed in fire fights, etc.

Originally posted by Satyr
Let me post this part here, in case you missed it.

U.S Financial Aid To Israel:
Figures, Facts, and Impact

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

There you go...a few stats for you.

How much do you want to help, eh? Enough to give up your quality of life? I don't guess this matters to you? That's what you're supporting. You must be rich! I'm not. I can't help people I don't even know, nor do I want to.

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by Satyr]

23k?...Do they even take out that much taxes from your check?...the numbers dont add up...try it...and I know that Isreal is our #1 supported country...#2 is Egypt...etc...

I don't care if people live in the damn jungle and eat each other, as long as it has nothing to do with America! Should we put a stop to jungle tribes with cruel and unusual rituals, too?

Originally posted by BasementAddix
23k?...Do they even take out that much taxes from your check?...the numbers dont add up...try it...and I know that Isreal is our #1 supported country...#2 is Egypt...etc...

That's how much Israel pays. Read more carefully. Now, we're spending another $87 billion or so on this mess. As I said, how much quality of life are you willing to give up?

[Edited on 4-30-2004 by Satyr]