New Gallop poll: GOP Losses Span Nearly All Demographic Groups

Originally posted by RRconservative
Does anyone honestly think if we ran someone more moderate than McCain that we would have a chance in 2012? It's impossible....because there is no one more moderate than McCain. The only answer is to go more conservative....it's common sense!

I disagree. McCain didn't lose because he was moderate. The hardcore republicans still voted for him regardless. He lost because he was old, his campaign was overly negative and he resigned himself to merely criticizing Obama's positions as opposed to providing positions of his own. It also didn't help that he picked a joke of a running-mate in a sad attempt to pander to the female vote.

The Republican party needs a fresh, moderate constitutionalist who will actually uphold true conservative beliefs as opposed to the ideologically religious conservatives who have hijacked the party. I know if there was a true republican running I would vote for him, and I normally support democrats.

In either case, radicalism is not the answer. The last thing the republican party needs is to alienate the people even further.

McCain got crushed because of one thing: the last eight years under Bush.

If it hadn't been for Palin, who brought out the die-hards but alienated a lot of moderates, he might have had a better shot, even then.

Talk-radio style "conservatives" are a small minority of the electorate - but they don't seem to realize it.

Most people who consider themselves conservative are much more moderate.

Just like most people who consider themselves "liberal" aren't necessarily hardcore left-wingers.

the current state of the GOP is that of hypocrisy.

Talk radio is in denial, because they'll lose their jobs.
Lindsey Graham is another fine example of this.

According to The State newspaper and video posted on YouTube, the South Carolina senator told the convention he wants to build a party that can compete in Pennsylvania and Connecticut as well as in his home state.

“You’re a hypocrite!,” one man in the audience yelled.

“I’m a winner, pal,” Graham retorted. Moments later, after saying he wants to the party to reach out to independent voters, he said: “Winning matters to me. If it doesn’t matter to you, there’s the exit sign.”

The crowd in Columbia also featured some Ron Paul supporters who offered several libertarian resolutions during the convention that were rejected by the state party.

During his speech, Graham told the audience, "Ron Paul is not the leader of this party." That remark drew a few jeers, with several people yelling, "Yes he is!"

“I’m not going to give this party over to people who can’t win,” Graham responded.

CNN

He wants a big tent, but he STILL gets to sell the tickets to the elephant Circus. and THERE IS THE EXIT SIGN, if you don't like it.



[edit on 19-5-2009 by spacedoubt]

Originally posted by xmotex
McCain got crushed because of one thing: the last eight years under Bush.

Wrong! McCain got crushed because he did everything he could to distance himself from Bush.

You don't turn your back on a 2-term President. The same thing happened in 2000 with algore. algore distanced himself from a 2-term President and he also lost. Coincidence? I think not.

In national elections Conservatives beat Liberals everytime. Too bad we didn't have a Conservative, we instead had a Moderate.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
the current state of the GOP is that of hypocrisy.

Talk radio is in denial, because they'll lose their jobs.
Lindsey Graham is another fine example of this.

Lindsey Graham is an example of the type of Moderate Republican I would like to see removed from the Party. He is NOT a Conservative.

It's funny....one poster said McCain lost not because he is a moderate, but because he was old. Then like clockwork someone comes in with a Ron Paul shout out.

FYI.....Ron Paul is older than McCain!

After 12 out of 14 years controlling of congress and 8 years of bush minor the Republican brand was badly damaged by their own arrogance and hubris... nothing more, nothing less.

When you add to that the whole economic mess that unfolded during the last months of the campaign...

The Republicans could have run Christ Jesus and they would have still lost.

It didn't help that McCain came across as a shrill hysterical old man to Obama's articulation and youth.

But even when you add up McCain's hysteria and the economic meltdown they still don't equal the damage the Republicans have and continue to do to themselves.

RR is wrong... going further right will only further isolate them.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by grover

RR is wrong... going further right will only further isolate them.

Well if they go any further left they might as well pull a Benedict Arlen and just declare themselves Democrats. Staying were they are is not a winning option either.

I have always been a die-hard Republican. But lately I have become so sick of the moderates ruining this party that I am very close to becoming an Independent. The way the polls cited in your original post might suggest that I am behind the curve.

I'm not surprised if there'll be a new party for 2012. I'm not even surprised if Obama forming a new party for 2012, providing he's doing well in this term.

reply to post by RRconservative


Please note that It wasn't me that is worried about McCain's age, or Ron Paul's age. I do often wonder about the current "conservative" Paulophobia though.
Most other politicians get a shot on talk radio, left or right, they can come on the shows to be praised, or put-down. Yet it's mostly a Paul free zone.
Television is a little different.

Paul is like a little mouse in the corner saying to everyone, left and right.
"don't stick your finger in the power outlet, don't stick your finger in the power outlet..you'll get shocked".

Hundreds of burned fingers later, look what we've got!

I'm looking forward to the Palin Obama debates, they should be a riot.

If our economy is still in the crapper come next presidential election, it will be the best opportunity for a third party win since Abraham Lincoln. If our economy has recovered or is on its way to recovery, then Obama will be a shoo in. At that point Obama might want to consider a different running mate to line him up for the 2016 race.

Originally posted by grover
While I am a dyed in the wool liberal but Democrat by default (I'd be a Green if they had a snowballs chance in hell and stopped running unelectable candidates) I firmly believe that a permanent majority of any party would be a disaster for the nation.

I am not so much anti-Republican as opposed to the hard right extremists who have hijacked the GOP...

And based on, what is now a consistent pattern in the polls, it seems most voters feel the same.

The GOP has entered a deep decline and in my humble opinion headed towards fracture... the hard right as represented by Cheney, Limbaugh and company are damned and determined to maintain a stranglehold on the party... yet the right wing is a minority even within the GOP... so unless they become more willing to represent the moderates (and more liberal) members of the party... as opposed to just the right, their decline and fall seems all but certain.

www.gallup.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 19-5-2009 by grover]

I agree. I would actually hate to see the Democratic Party become the only party.

reply to post by RRconservative


Have you ever considered the possibility that it is the hard right that is destroying the party instead of the moderates?

After all that is what most everyone else seems to see.

reply to post by grover


I think you hit the nail on the head.
I always considered myself a staunch republican, and specifically a conservative. But I find myself more aligning to the libertarian party the last couple of years. I'm tired of being lumped in with the far right. Most of any party contains more than just the extremes.






I know a lot of people on this board are not a fan of Glenn Beck, but he has an excellent scale on party alignment in this video. If you haven't seen it before, it's worth 3 minutes.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by jhanks28cold]

I still believe these two parties are working in unison behind closed doors providing smoke screens for the american public. McCain knew he was going to loose he wasn't even supposed to be the nominee. Yet this was the perfect canidate to get Obama elected. The Economy was dumped on purpose on sept 18th to help Obama get elected. Thats when McCain stated " The fundamentals of the Economy are strong" . This is the very line that got BHO elected...

Just like 9/11, the Government will be the only one that benefits from this economic 9/11. People had better get with it or the Government will own your very soul....Third Party Now!

kick the bums out in 2012!

I watched that video and its total bullhooey... first off regardless of what they called themselves Hitler, Lenin and Stalin were hardly to the left... totalitarian systems are never liberal by definition. Plus liberals do not advocate total government... despite what the right likes to claim.

Beck also forgets that the banks and car companies came begging to the government for rescue... if he thinks that they should have gotten the help without government involvement he's a bigger fool than I thought.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by grover]

reply to post by grover


I think you may have missed the point of the scale. With total government on the left (regardless of the images placed at the end showing individuals) and anarchy on the right side of the scale, it was to illustrate that the two major political parties are not polar opposite anymore. In fact, they have identical goals- controlling as many aspects of our lives as possible. They simply use (or used to in any case) different tactics to achieve said goals.

The bottom line to all this, and why I agree with you, is that the two major parties are rapidly becoming one in the same, blurring the line between left and right and leaving moderates with virtually no voice.

Very few, if any, on this board want total government. But with the two major parties converging so rapidly, to whom do we turn?

reply to post by jhanks28cold

I want clearly a articulated and focused government not muddled by any attempts at ideological purity... I want it to do what it does to be done extremely well and cost effective...

And as a liberal I want to see strong environmental protection...

Strong consumer protection...

Powerful regulations in finance to prevent the type of disaster we are living through now from happening again...

Both worker and employer rights protected and enforced without one trampling on the other...

Strong anti-trust laws that are enforced...

A strong enough military to protect us without becoming a slave to the military industrial complex... we do not need a military larger than the 5 next largest combined...

I want us to be a positive force in the world without being the policeman for it...

...in short I want to end all foreign aid except for times of disaster...

...then I want us at the front of the line...

I want us to take care of our own... the rich can take care of themselves but if you are poor and need help you should be able to get it easily without it being either degrading or a life time prop...

In short I want our government to be as decent as we are as a people.


[edit on 20-5-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by poet1b
I'm looking forward to the Palin Obama debates, they should be a riot.

What Palin/Obama debates?
There isn't a chance in hell she'll be the nominee.
The party is already distancing itself from her.

Look to Crist or Jindal. That'd be my guess.

Originally posted by grover
The Republicans could have run Christ Jesus and they would have still lost.

Absolutely. I agree.

The country was so tired of Bush43 .. and so drunk on Obamas false hopes ... and couple that with the medias love affair with Obamessiah ... it wouldn't matter who the GOP put forth .. that person could not win.



[edit on 5/20/2009 by FlyersFan]

What if the Democratic party, which is really a Centrist and not Liberal party, became the Conservative party, and the Green Party was the new liberal party?

reply to post by Donnie Darko


That is a distinct possiblity since the Democrats have long since ceased being truly liberal... There is Ted Kennedy and Bernie Saunders and the late Paul Wellstone but the rest are moderates... by my standards.