Bush's 'Smoking Gun' Witness Found Dead of 'Apparent Suicide'

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Holy Vince Foster! What next? The 9/11 hijackers were mostly Saudis? Cheney was a draft dodger? Laura Bush ran into an old boy friend? (ouch!) W is an incoherent dolt? The Bushes are heavily invested in Saudi oil? Heavens to Murgatroyd, even!

I wouldn't be surprised if his entire cabinet croaked at a reunion picnic.

"Wouldn't be prudent to let them all go Powell on me!"

reply to post by schrodingers dog


People die everyday from being murdered, raped, tortured etc etc. So what makes this one special? Because a Republican is to blame? Nothing is going to change just because you get on here and made a thread about it.

Originally posted by Dark Jester
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

People die everyday from being murdered, raped, tortured etc etc. So what makes this one special? Because a Republican is to blame? Nothing is going to change just because you get on here and made a thread about it.

Dark Jester, the whole point of this forum is to discuss these issues, not to attack someones viewpoint. And 'Yes' making a thread is all we can do, that's the whole point.

Originally posted by Dark Jester
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

People die everyday from being murdered, raped, tortured etc etc. So what makes this one special?

Oh dear, and what do we do about it? We prosecute the offenders.

Because a Republican is to blame? Nothing is going to change just because you get on here and made a thread about it.

And where did I ever mention political parties here?

Or do we only only prosecute Democrat/Republican criminals?

Is your party affiliation so blinding?

Originally posted by ExPostFacto

Originally posted by Dark Jester
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

People die everyday from being murdered, raped, tortured etc etc. So what makes this one special? Because a Republican is to blame? Nothing is going to change just because you get on here and made a thread about it.

Dark Jester, the whole point of this forum is to discuss these issues, not to attack someones viewpoint. And 'Yes' making a thread is all we can do, that's the whole point.

The only reason you people care about this is a Republican is to blame, I don't see any threads about how thousands of tibetians are being tortured and killed. So yeah like i said you people don't care

reply to post by Dark Jester


I care about this topic and I'm a Republican. I don't know what you are getting at.

I didn't realize the people we voted into office and entrusted to represent us and do the public good was responsible for the death of 1,000s of tibets. Nor was I aware this country invaded Tibet on false pretenses and lies to further private enterprise gains. It's a liberal media conspiracy I tells ya.



[edit on 19-5-2009 by CuriousSkeptic]

Originally posted by Dark Jester
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

So what are you going to do about it? cry? Its the truth that they are not going to charge Bush with anything so why bother.

Because we want to be able to tell people one day not to torture our troops and citizens. We want to live noble lives.

Even if we fail, we should protest what Bush/Cheney did because we don't want the world to know we were silent on this issue. Failing is not the shame -- doing nothing however, is.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by EvilAxis

 

Seriously, who cares if Pelosi lied or not UNTIL we've prosecuted people who approved and conducted torture.

UNLESS people care if the Speaker of the House lied, those who approved and conducted torture are unlikely to be prosecuted.

Her guilt is not that of perpetrator but facilitator - she shirked her legal and moral duty, actively fending off attempts at redress and impeachment during the Bush administration. She's guilty as hell - like much of Congress.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Do you seriously think that these guys, who had been spying with the NSA before 9/11, who had been planning the invasion of Iraq for 20 years when the PNAC was formed, who had committed crimes, and were doing torture BEFORE the one meeting -- the only meeting they ever had with Pelosi, were going to risk this whole enterprise by telling Pelosi they were breaking all the laws that mattered?

You, I, Nancy Pelosi and anyone who was paying attention from the fraudulent election to 9/11, the Patriot act and the illegal wars could see that "they were breaking all the laws that mattered?" Nobody needed the CIA to tell us.

Pelosi blames the CIA and the Bush administration to save her skin. The CIA fight back and the media broadcasts the spectacle. I don't wish to see her scapegoated but I relish the possibility that her flailing against a corrupt system she supported will unravel more facts which may divest the real perpetrators of their cover.

reply to post by EvilAxis


What does Pelosi have anything to do with the story in the OP?

Yours and others' attempts to politicize and deflect the issue are transparent.

Ad-Libi

While I suppose it's not surprising that U.S partisan politics would take center stage in a thread like this, it would be much more constructive to focus on the truth and minimize the finger-pointing.

What are the facts? Peeling away the prejudices and "spin" that invariably accompany news like this can go a long way toward uncovering the truth.

As unfashionable as the truth may be these days, I still think it's worth looking for.





(Just my personal opinion, nothing more.)

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by EvilAxis

 

What does Pelosi have anything to do with the story in the OP?

Yours and others' attempts to politicize and deflect the issue are transparent.

Pelosi knew torture was being used, was in a position to oppose it, but chose not to.

You completely misread me. Far from wishing to politicize and deflect the issue I starred several of your posts. I deleted from my last post "this is not about political allegiance" because I thought it would be obvious from what I said.

Surely "who cares if Pelosi lied" is a party political sentiment. In my view they all lie and party politics is largely a smokescreen, therefore we should focus on the lies not the party.

I have every wish to see the prosecution of those who approved and carried out torture together with those like Pelosi who could have acted to halt it.




[edit on 19-5-2009 by EvilAxis]

Originally posted by EvilAxis
reply to post by schrodingers dog

 

I find it ironic that you completely misread me. I deleted from my last post "this is not about political allegiance" because I thought it would be obvious from what I said.

If I have you have my apologies.

Surely "who cares if Pelosi lied" is a party political sentiment. In my view they all lie and party politics is largely a smokescreen, therefore we should focus on the lies not the party.

I never said "who cares if Pelosi lied" (I realize you weren't responding to me). However what I did say that Pelosi, unless she was part of the specific conspiracy outlined in the OP, is irrelevant to this specific conversation. There are numerous threads where such valid concerns can and are being addressed.

I have no wish to derail and every wish to see the prosecution of those who approved and carried out torture together with those like Pelosi who knew it was happening, could have done something about it but chose not to.

Again, two separate conversations in this case. Both have merit, but we do justice to neither should we combine them. After all we are trying to unmuddle the waters.

[edit on 19 May 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Sorry, I just edited my last post to try to clarify.

We're really on the same page here but I take strong exception to giving Pelosi a pass on this and take comfort from the fact that the media are on her case - above all because I think this could, maybe with the wind blowing in the right direction - crack open the much larger can of worms.

To that extent I don't think it's muddying the waters. Much as we may wish to see the most guilty prosecuted first, it's simply not going to happen until something breaks.


[edit on 19-5-2009 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by EvilAxis


My friend, I agree with you ...

If Pelosi had any part to play in this shameful period of American history she should hang with the rest of them.

We'll pick'em apart one detail at a time, but it's getting tougher as more and more people are getting "suicided."


ps. happy belated two year atsversary.

[edit on 19 May 2009 by schrodingers dog]

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
ps. happy belated two year atsversary.

My God - 2 years and 2AM, UK time. Good night!

Originally posted by EvilAxis
reply to post by EvilAxis

 

UNLESS people care if the Speaker of the House lied, those who approved and conducted torture are unlikely to be prosecuted.

Her guilt is not that of perpetrator but facilitator - she shirked her legal and moral duty, actively fending off attempts at redress and impeachment during the Bush administration. She's guilty as hell - like much of Congress.

Wow.

So it's not already hard enough to go after Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonzales -- you want to go after the Speaker of the House?

If Pelosi is guilty -- then EVERY Republican and Democrat in Washington was guilty, because they all could be as well informed as me with internet access but chose not to be.

This is just another way of saying; We have to clean up every speck on the Democrats, before we can hold the perpetrators accountable.

You've failed to point out WHY the CIA would even Tell Pelosi? If they are forging documents for Yellow Cake -- then who what records are going to tell you what they did or didn't tell Pelosi?

Sure, Pelosi SHOULD have done something. But all these people have a yellow streak a mile wide. NONE of them would be in office if they went about making waves. Dennis Kucinich, Feinstein, and Ron Paul are the exception -- anomalies.

You are never going to get ANYTHING by going after EVERYBODY. Do I consider it "aiding and abetting" -- sure. But Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh are the ones behind pointing fingers at Nancy Pelosi.

If you want to say the CIA has any credibility -- you are saying the same people helping banana importers with death squads are character witnesses? LINK

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
So it's not already hard enough to go after Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonzales -- you want to go after the Speaker of the House?

Absolutely.
Pelosi is forced to pass the buck because public and international outrage at the torture is exerting real political pressure. But if partisan apologists insist on defending such people because they're less guilty than Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales and co. - there will be no prosecutions.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
If Pelosi is guilty -- then EVERY Republican and Democrat in Washington was guilty, because they all could be as well informed as me with internet access but chose not to be.

Most - by doing nothing to protect the Constitution and the rule of law are guilty, but at the moment Pelosi is the one in the hot seat.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
You've failed to point out WHY the CIA would even Tell Pelosi? If they are forging documents for Yellow Cake -- then who what records are going to tell you what they did or didn't tell Pelosi?

It's not the Yellow Cake she's being drilled over. The CIA says they have records proving they informed her about the torture. That's really just a technicality, because she knew better than you and I that torture was taking place - but it's a technicality which is forcing her to damage those she once loyally protected.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Sure, Pelosi SHOULD have done something. But all these people have a yellow streak a mile wide. NONE of them would be in office if they went about making waves. Dennis Kucinich, Feinstein, and Ron Paul are the exception -- anomalies.

True. So we defend them and give them a pass?
Pelosi blocked Kucinich's articles of impeachment:

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
If you want to say the CIA has any credibility...

I don't. The CIA, like the Fedreal Reserve is largely unaccountable and largely a menace to our well-being.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by EvilAxis]

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Yeah you've got to love the guys name.

Al-Libi = ALIBI

Ahahahah awww # well pointed out

classic

funny, in a kind of scary way

Another "suicide" in the torture investigation why does this not surprise me? also,any of you who are expecting a "full and impartial" investigation by our government are wasting your breath they all want this to go away and will do anything to make sure that happens.