A valid point-- how can Republicans be against abortion but be pro-military?

Well let's see here, supergenious...

Isn't it odd that liberal democrats are so anti-war because innocent people die but seem to think it is perfectly ok to be a baby killer?

Usually we go to war because of a threat - what did a baby do to anybody?

And a preemptive rebuttal for good measure... The choice is made at the time of conception.

reply to post by jayjayrocks


We don't go to wars because of threats. We go to war because our government is filled with a bunch of greedy war-mongers that think that the thought of peace is sacrilege and treasonous.

Republicans keep talking about smaller government and fewer laws but can't seem to believe that people should have the right to choose in this matter.

I find that inconsistent with their base beliefs.

Abortion and war is both wrong in my opinion. I am not for abortion unless they a certain circumstances that deem it necessary. For example; if a young girl was raped who's body simply could not handle a pregancy. If the mom and baby both will die in child birth or if the baby is dead in the womb or dying.
I am also only for war if we are attacked by another country directly. I am talking about a country itself. For example if the leader if North Korea were to Nuke us then it would be for a proctective defensive action. I am not for war if a terrorist group was responible. I am for arresting and trying those terrorists. I never agreed with the afghan war or iraq war.
I am neither republican or democrat. I lean more toward democrat because they used to be more for the people and less for the rich. Now I am starting to become more of an independent.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Republicans keep talking about smaller government and fewer laws but can't seem to believe that people should have the right to choose in this matter.

I find that inconsistent with their base beliefs.

I used to believe the government was their to protect the people. Ideally this is the way it should be.
I agree with fewer laws but we really have to rethink our whole republican
democrat idealogy.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Doesn't it seem odd to you how Republicans are pro-military intervention around the world yet they are against abortion? They want us to be strong. They don't mind the fact that they kill innocent adults but they hate the idea of abortion because it kills the unborn. But they kill real people and the born when they use military action.

What don't fly is the intellectual dishonesty involved, when it is maintained that abortion is not murder.
Let them come out and plead "We want the right to do this one class of murder, okay?".
I'm disinclined (in general) to give somebody permission to do anything, when they are lying about what it is that they are actually doing.

I am pro military. Abortion reduces the number of people that can join the military. So logically I would be against it.

A valid point?

reply to post by RRconservative


Not really. My main point was that although abortion does limit the amount of people will be borned is that really a bad thing? I mean first of all they're not alive. They're not a person. They're just in your body... they aren't people- they're unborned for a reason. What they have is a potential for life. However, people fighting in the military have life and they are dying out there... that was my main point.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by RRconservative

 

Not really. My main point was that although abortion does limit the amount of people will be borned is that really a bad thing? I mean first of all they're not alive. They're not a person. They're just in your body... they aren't people- they're unborned for a reason.

So if I was walking on a beach and discovered some sea turtle eggs, I could destroy them with impunity? Because they are not endangered sea turtles yet, they are unborn.

It's a shame that an unborn sea turtle has more rights than an unborn human being.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.
-Ronald Reagan


[edit on 28-8-2009 by Totakeke]

reply to post by FlyersFan


And that photo, which isn't what it seems has been used for propaganda and has now become an urban legend.

The baby stuck its hand out and the doctor pushed it back when the guy snapped the photo.

The nurse replied, oh that happens all the time.

snopes

What I find most intersting is one of the most republican states of all, is the capital punishment capital of the US.


And that without public health care coverage, there are going to be a lot of pregnant mothers who can't get treatment and prenatal care and have the option of having that surgery.

Or are only wealthy babies viable?


[edit on 28-8-2009 by nixie_nox]

Pro-life means you protect the innocent, which pre born and children fall into that category.

Pro-capital punishment means you punish the guilty, and that includes using M16's to do so in a war.

American War Casualties

EACH + represents 50,000 deaths

CIVIL WAR 498,332
++++++++++
WORLD WAR I 116,708
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WORLD WAR II 407,316
++++++++
KOREAN WAR 54,246
+
VIETNAM WAR 58,655
+
PERSIAN GULF WAR 372
-
WAR ON THE UNBORN 85,000,000
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Now you were proposing that military combat is more inhumane than abortion







[edit on 28-8-2009 by fmcanarney]

reply to post by desert


As far as womens rights go ---half of the aborted babies are women, ---don't they have rights??


I am pro-life, pro-woman, pro-gun.

And for those who think war is just about killing the enemy:

BAGHDAD (AFP) — Iraqi civilians bore the brunt Friday of a bloody start to Eid al-Fitr, as a US air raid killed 15 women and children, and a sinister suicide attack on a playground shocked a northern town.

Blood of women and children stains Iraq's Eid

More than 300,000 Iraqis were killed in the 43-day military war in 1991. Since then, more than one million people-mainly young children-have died as a direct result of the US-led blockade on this small country. The lack of food and medicine, along with the deteriorating sanitary conditions in Iraq, have caused far more harm and suffering than the military war itself-despite the use of more than 142,000 tons of bombs and 350 tons of depleted uranium shells during the bombing campaigns. From a legal perspective, the maritime blockade, coupled with the air blockade, amounts to an act of war, thereby making the economic sanctions a continuation of the war that supposedly ended in March 1991.

The Women and Children of Iraq Are Under Siege

Analysis carried out for the research group Iraq Body Count (IBC) found that 39 per cent of those killed in air raids by the US-led coalition were children and 46 per cent were women. Fatalities caused by mortars, used by American and Iraqi government forces as well as insurgents, were 42 per cent children and 44 per cent women.

Iraq air raids hit mostly women and children

Up to 60% of Iraqis are unemployed.
40% of all Iraqi professionals have left the country since 2003, including 12,000 doctors.
Only 37% of Iraqi homes have sewage systems.
About 30% of Iraqis have adequate clean water.
28% of Iraqi children suffer from malnutrition.
A home in Baghdad has electricity for an average of 1 or 2 hours a day.
2,225,000 Iraqis have lost their homes since the war began.

women standing with Iraq

Sewage systems
2001 was a landmark year in America, as 95 %of US homes had running water and 96% had cable TV.
More sewer pipes coming into homes than going out.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


No damn it, that is NOT what the military does. My brother doesn't kill babies, he has three of his own. I'm a few months away from boot camp myself, are you saying that I am taking this job because I wanna go kill?

Ignorance at it's worst right there.


The purpose of the military is to close in on and destroy the enemies of the United States. Sometimes people who shouldn't get hurt do. It is shameful and heart breaking to say the least, but even more so to accuse the US military of killing innocents as part of "What they do".

As for the abortion thing. I'm not for or against. I don't have the answers. I haven't the moral monopoly on deciding what is right answer, and neither does anyone else.

But it is apples and oranges.

For the record I am not a liberal or a conservative.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Republicans keep talking about smaller government and fewer laws but can't seem to believe that people should have the right to choose in this matter.

I find that inconsistent with their base beliefs.

I struggle with that too, but it's not necessarily morally inconsistent, just because you are a libertarian or whatever doesn't mean that you condone murder. I ask you this, since people say that a fetus isn't a "person" until so many weeks. If a woman is say....5 weeks pregnant, and a drunk drivers runs a stop light and crashes into her...say the steering wheel gets jammed up into her stomach killing the fetus. Under the current legal system that person would be charged with vehicular homicide...YET if she decides to have the fetus removed by a doctor at that same point in time, then it is a casual and socially acceptable event.

Is that not conflicting? If she wants to keep the baby, then it's murder...if she doesn't want to keep it then it's something else. The usual claim is that it's not murder because the fetus isn't developed, so how can these two events exist side by side? If you then say that it's fine to kill a person in the womb, then at 8 months is it ok? Is it ok to slit its neck until you cut the umbilical cord? Since it's the woman's body, then is it suddenly ok for her to start shooting up heroine after the birth and cause her to neglect the child, starve it to death or kill it accidentally or just throw it in the dumpster? These aren't easy questions to answer, that's why people have so many passionate feelings in both directions.

[edit on 30-8-2009 by yellowcard]

Is it murder when I rub a few off in the toilet? Just curious since they all potential babies. I have killed trillions by now if so

Originally posted by Xeven
Is it murder when I rub a few off in the toilet? Just curious since they all potential babies. I have killed trillions by now if so

Thanks...for....sharing? I don't think that would be murder any more than a woman having her period is murder. During sex only one sperm lives anyhow, so it's not really even on the same level conception.