Where are all my Fellow Libertarians At?

"I disagree, in a previous post I asked for which of the laws in the Patriot Act were the ones taking away my rights. I received no answer."


It was on this thread and I answered it days ago.......


www.abovetopsecret.com...

It will probebly not do any good because if bush wanted cameras in EVERY house you are one of those that would say "if you have nothing to hide so what?"


If you do not believe the Republicans have as part of their platform, lower taxes and more power for the States then I don't know what to say. They do. Bush cut taxes the first year didn't he?


Lowering taxes does not mean a hell of a lot when you can be jailed indeffently without being charged with ANY crime, your telephone can be tapped without a court order, etc. If it was the democrats doing this you would be screaming but since its your nazi instead of theres its OK.

"To stay sane and understand US politics we have to take a long view. Nothing major is going to happen in four years, all we can hope for is small changes, picking away at the establishments wall of government, a little at a time."


What changes are they giving us? THEY control the house, senete and the white house and what do we have? MORE government spending, MORE laws, A lLARGER government, the LARGEST defict in history (how do you think they are gonna pay for this without raising taxes in the future?), they are jailing US citizens without trials, etc does this sound like they are for smaller government or more freedom? I guess that it might in Newspeak (1984) but to anyone able to think for themselves it dont.


"You still didn't respond to the basis for my argument about the Libertarian view on personal rights. Why not? Certainly you understand that world of the founding fathers is dead and gone? We can click our heels all we want but, we have to live in the present, wishing don't make it so."

Its early morning and I am half asleep so maybe I dont understand the question. I said I didnt have a problem with anybody have any weapons and as for your statement about the world of the founding fathers being dead that would explain why Bush wants to bury the constitution along with them......LOL

Any body can SAY anything you have to look at what they DO to see the truth, and what they say and what they do is two different things

You can defend them all you want but clicking your heels wont make it true......LOL

Yep, I agree with all of that Phoenix. It is just that reality is what it is.

So you agree that BOTH parties are corrupt? If so there is hope for you yet.......LOL

That URL doesn't really answer anything Amuk so I read a little more about the PA. I knew about much of it but, I see from the ACLU web site some issues that should be fixed. The problem is that the FBI has shown a willingness to hide evidence and basically "cheat" to get prosecutions of people they knew were guilty. I can see how a pessimistic attitude about law enforcement would make you think this is road to a police state. If it gets as bad as you say, the law will get changed. I refuse to believe that the People of the US will allow the FBI to become the Gestapo.

Several years ago, I knew people who thought we should all vote for the most liberal candidate we could find so that the Libs would take power and the People would see how bad they are. Then we could get rid of them once and for all. Maybe we could say the same thing about the far right?

Variable

Originally posted by Amuk
Hey KJ hows my favorite closet Libertarian doing?


I think he means just against human nature, I think you would agree that communisiam does not work for JUST that reason. Its against human nature to strive if you dont have to. Why work your ass of if you will not get ANY reward and the bozo next to you does nothing, shows up drunk half the time, and misses the other half and makes the SAME that you do?


The things you listed might not be natural, really some are but that beside the point, but do not go agianst human nature.

Hey bud. I like some of what the libertarians are shooting for, but not enough to vote for them.

Perhaps it is human nature. But it is also human nature to be jealous, hate, kill, lust, prejudge, and the like.

They are seen as evil yet are ingrained in us. We fight against ourselves in almost every struggle on Earth.

Maybe we could say the same thing about the far right?

The trouble with that is if they keep passing laws like the PA then we could wake up some day and it be ILLEGAL to disagree with them. It can happen here when I was young you could order a gun out of a cataloug with out ANY ID, if you wanted to start a bussiness you just started it, etc, as long as you minded your own bussiness people left you alone and to me this is what America is all about.


I agree that we will not allow the type of government that BOTH major parties seem to want but I wonder if enough people will stand up before its too late for the vote to work.

That is why I back the Libertarians even if they dont win it sends a message to both parties that a huge segment of the country is tired of their #. I think that the only way we will see any real change is to vote independent or Libertarian

Originally posted by Amuk

Which party is in favor of cutting taxes and giving more power to states?

It damn sure aint the republicans

And, it damn sure hasn't been the democrats:
LBJ--the Great Society and welfare
Clinton--FMLA and many others like it, that have the government interfering in our lives
I'm sure there are other examples.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Originally posted by Amuk

Which party is in favor of cutting taxes and giving more power to states?

It damn sure aint the republicans

And, it damn sure hasn't been the democrats:
LBJ--the Great Society and welfare
Clinton--FMLA and many others like it, that have the government interfering in our lives
I'm sure there are other examples.

Right

Thats why you vote Libertarian