Are Atheists Mostly Left Brained?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

Do you accept the Big Bang theory?

I accept it as a possible explanation to the origins of the Universe. I am not dogmatic in my belief in TBB though.

As far as God vs. TBB goes, I think that there is more evidence for TBB. We will never be able to rule out a God/Divine Being though.

edit for spelling

[edit on 19-5-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]

reply to post by MatrixProphet

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Are Atheists Mostly Left Brained?
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We all create a narrative , a coherent belief system, with which we attempt to maintain a sense of continuity to our lives. This probably has its roots in pre-history, before the dawn of the written word ,a time when we were story tellers with an oral tradition. .
This maintenance of a coherent , continuous narrative or belief system, is apparently done largely by the Left Hemisphere .

The Left Hemisphere incorporates any new experiences into the pre-existing belief system. Anything which does not fit -in with our narrative , is denied by our Left Hemisphere , with the anomaly sweep aside.

This tendency is countered by the Right Hemisphere .

The Right Hemisphere challenges the narrative & status quo . Once a discrepancy becomes unbearably large and obvious , the Right Hemisphere instigates a complete revision of the belief system .

I would liken this , to somebody revising their belief in religion, seeing the discrepancy between science and religious dogma for example.. You no doubt could see the opposite being the case i.e somebody moving from atheism to theism.

I guess it depends on what you regard as anomalous.


Self deception is kept in check by its parallel hemisphere .

So is the self deception manifest, by a belief, or disbelief, in a Supernatural being .......?

For me , it is the Supernatural explanation , that is the anomaly , by its very definition.With blind faith purported as a virtue - the ultimate manifestation of self deception ..... IMHO.

===================================
The medical condition anosognosia highlights this distinction between the hemispheres.

This phenomenon can be seen in stroke victims . If the person has suffered the loss of Right Hemisphere function , the intact Left Hemisphere is free to engage in its denial , without the counter-balance . Without the parallel hemisphere playing "devils advocate " the narrative goes unchecked and can become quite delusional .

We are capable of telling ourselves quite a few yarns to make it through the day. I`d go as so far as to say , its necessary , but when these beliefs, find there way into the foreign policies of nuclear armed countries etc , they must be countered . And hopefully they will be countered with logic and reason ~ not with opposing religious beliefs .

This short U Tube video , provides a stunning example of anosognosia and the Left /Right brain dichotomy. The concepts expressed above are found within this video.



A fascinating 10 minutes , IMHO.


Perhaps it is the "believers" that are Right Hemisphere impaired . , less willing to question the anomalous narrative .
We may very well be wired differently.
Nice to see the subject atheism/theism , couched in the language of neuroscience, its refreshing .

Edit to add: I am willing to change my narrative , but a tipping point of sorts would have to be experienced . This is probably true of atheist and theist alike .
......... , well at least thats "my story " and i`m sticking with it ...

[edit on 19-5-2009 by UmbraSumus]

reply to post by benzon

MY GOD that is so American! Im sorry but why does christians always want everyone to think what they think? Why can't you just give up your bedtime stories and accept that the only God in the world is James Hetfield from Metallica?

Im sorry if its a little offensive, but i really hate Catholism. REALLY!

The Catholic Church is a bunch of money hungry assholes, and if someone controdicts them, then they are hethens and infedales and what not.
Well guess wha - I am the hethen king!

And you are talking to whom? I hope you read the OP (which is doesn't sound like you did). Or is this trolling?

With that said, I couldn't agree with you more!!

reply to post by miragezero

I am not sad about being atheist or weak agnostic, though... so come out of the box and reinvent a god to believe in and that woudl make me happy? "search out an unknown that man cannot create"? Well you're creating it yourself in that case... and yes it sounds delusional. There is simply no evidence that there is anything out there not subject to physical law. There is no evidence for the supernatural. That is the crux of the matter.

It seems the majority of scientists would disagree with you. For MOST believe in something greater than ourselves created or started life! I am in good company for Einstein considered it, greatly.

What do you think started life? This obviously would include the first molecules and crystals.

Do YOU know who, what, or it, inhabits or fills all the dark universe? Do YOU know more than the actual astronomers? What is your personal experience with multi-dimensional universes?

If you have all the answers to the above questions then I would listen very carefully to your insight, but as it stands, I acknowledge those who have the intelligence to acknowledge that life had it's start by something who had some sort of consciousness, whatever you choose to call it.

In this case delusional seems to be the smarter way.


[edit on 19-5-2009 by MatrixProphet]

Maybe I made my post too long - I would like a comment from the OP.

Religion is left brain (belief) - spiritualism is right brain (possibility).

I'm right brain dominant and would say I'm basically an atheist - I'm actually agnostic, but the way most people understand God - well, I see no evidence.

I don't really consider myself spiritual - but I am very definitely a philosopher.

The big bang is a fairly crappy theory - but you can't rule out a quantum event any more than you can rule out divine creation - can't be tested.

Modern physics is complete trash - some crucial information regarding the nature of space or vacuum if you like, has been covered up. Science has become more dogmatic than religion - we cannot move forward with scientific knowledge until 'peer review' (or more like peer patronage) gets a shot of cyanide.

EDIT: What I mean regarding physics is that you cannot go back and do credible work on atomic structure, neither can you question Einstein and expect to have any support.

Both the model of the atom and relativity are flawed - but if you say "Einstein might have got it wrong", then its goodbye to your career. The media and social pressure created by the cult of Einstein generate so much pressure that if he WAS wrong - it will be almost impossible to discover it for years and years.

Left brain thinking is alive and well in religion and in science.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Amagnon


I appreciate your post, but I like to take it a step further than textbook! Beyond the neurological or chemical and physical aspects to this question.

It is this arena that I work in - behavioral science. I find that most (incl. psychologists and psychiatrists) do not understand the right brain.

I acknowledged earlier that I am simplifying this whole thing. This would simplify it for all those other than the academics and those who work in neurological science.

Left brain is the reasoning center and right brain is the feeling center. I noticed you didn't mention this?

Where do you think these feelings or characteristics came from?

Guilt
Shame
Joy
Sadness
Anger
Grief
Imagination
Senses

Or do they magically come from thin air?

Our conscience is made up of our left brain and right brain. Okay?

Guilt is centered in the left brain "knowing" that you did something wrong. Right brain "feels" that you did something wrong, this is called; shame. It is attached to our feelings and this is why those who work mostly out of a dominant right brain can be more emotional than those who are more analytical.


Why I say that the most intelligent use "actively" both sides?

If a person does not shut down their right brain which is the feeling center, then this person will have better access to healthier judgments and synthesis. This is where a person can be more sensitive to higher conscious levels.

If one is healthy and is individuated (authentic), this person will have better access to both sides and will be able to develop high abstract reasoning. High abstract reasoning must involve both sides. Why? Because our "senses" which come from the right side is an invaluable partnership with our logic.

A person who relies on their analytical mind will often discount their feelings as not having much worth. Yet, it is these very feelings that help us to judge the quality of our life!

I find that those who don't acknowledge their "feelings" or minimize them or don't really understand the right brain, are those who NEED to be guided by FACTS and are not as comfortable with abstract perception, and philosophy. They NEED life, and answers to life, to be more black and white.

Clinical depression is caused not only by a chemical imbalance in the brain but also by those who lose their sense of reality and have pushed their feelings down. The first emotion to go down before depression is: anger! If anger is suppressed long enough a person will eventually go into depression.

Unfortunately, psychology in the traditional sense is behind in human behavior unless one educates themselves beyond the narrow aspects of textbook psychology. A huge component in school is left out: ADDICTION. Most don't know a thing about it and hence, will misdiagnose someone. I see it all the time!

It is also ironic that I always have psychologists as clients in that their left brain textbook information could not handle their feelings! So they come to me to have me help them with their feelings which are governed by life.


Now to the tests: they are hardly accurate! Because they don't take into consideration the feelings aspect of things which is a crucial component. Often the tests are left brain in composition.

Most atheists I hear, and live with, are NOT very in touch with their feelings and would rather discount them above their analytical mind. But BOTH sides are important. We need the left brain computer chip, but we are shallow without the depth that the right brain gives us. So I often find that there are "blocks" with atheists that they aren't even aware exist.

The best of psychologists are those who understand human behavior in a non-textbook setting!


Here is a book (I can recommend many others) that will help you and WERF to understand the right brain more:

"Emotional Intelligence" Why it can matter more than IQ. The Groundbreaking Book That Redefines What it Means to be Smart!
By Daniel Goleman PHD




[edit on 19-5-2009 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by Amagnon



Star for you! Outstanding post!

Religion is left brain (belief) - spiritualism is right brain (possibility).

I'm right brain dominant and would say I'm basically an atheist - I'm actually agnostic, but the way most people understand God - well, I see no evidence.

I don't really consider myself spiritual - but I am very definitely a philosopher.

Which tells me that you are more broad in your thinking. This is a good sign.

Where I find atheists and agnostics are confused is in applying nothing but left brain reasoning to an unreasonable situation. So this would then require higher abstract reasoning that I just mentioned to you earlier.

Get the meaning?

This is one of the blocks that you all may have. Applying rational understandings to irrational concepts.

To be a good behavioral scientist a person MUST understand this concept. Why? Because we can draw the wrong conclusions or diagnosis otherwise.

The right brain may also have facts, but not ones that are provable to the analytical thinker. I am very analytical!! But...I also have a strong right brain. I am also an author, artist and spiritual scientist. I MUST have good access to both sides.

Those who don't, often are too rigid or too wishy washy. Make sense?

The big bang is a fairly crappy theory - but you can't rule out a quantum event any more than you can rule out divine creation - can't be tested.

Good for you! This shows brillaince! I learn all the time from atheists. For they can be (if not puppets) very knowledgeable. But to be humble means to know our limitations. Right?

Modern physics is complete trash - some crucial information regarding the nature of space or vacuum if you like, has been covered up. Science has become more dogmatic than religion - we cannot move forward with scientific knowledge until 'peer review' (or more like peer patronage) gets a shot of cyanide.

EDIT: What I mean regarding physics is that you cannot go back and do credible work on atomic structure, neither can you question Einstein and expect to have any support.

If I could kiss you I would (I'm female, hehehe). Thank you for saying the family secret out loud!!

There is junk science, psychology and religion.

Both the model of the atom and relativity are flawed - but if you say "Einstein might have got it wrong", then its goodbye to your career. The media and social pressure created by the cult of Einstein generate so much pressure that if he WAS wrong - it will be almost impossible to discover it for years and years.

Left brain thinking is alive and well in religion and in science.

So...God/It/Source/Creator may actually have more validity once you leave the junk out. That is what I fervently try to help people do, as I had to do. I was in just as much of a prison as most here.

Thank you very much!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by miragezero

 

I am not sad about being atheist or weak agnostic, though... so come out of the box and reinvent a god to believe in and that woudl make me happy? "search out an unknown that man cannot create"? Well you're creating it yourself in that case... and yes it sounds delusional. There is simply no evidence that there is anything out there not subject to physical law. There is no evidence for the supernatural. That is the crux of the matter.

It seems the majority of scientists would disagree with you. For MOST believe in something greater than ourselves created or started life! I am in good company for Einstein considered it, greatly.

What do you think started life? This obviously would include the first molecules and crystals.

Do YOU know who, what, or it, inhabits or fills all the dark universe? Do YOU know more than the actual astronomers? What is your personal experience with multi-dimensional universes?

If you have all the answers to the above questions then I would listen very carefully to your insight, but as it stands, I acknowledge those who have the intelligence to acknowledge that life had it's start by something who had some sort of consciousness, whatever you choose to call it.

In this case delusional seems to be the smarter way.


[edit on 19-5-2009 by MatrixProphet]

Well we do all live in a multi-dimensional universe so I guess I have had many years of experience with it... but more to the point a lack of explanation of everything in the universe at the moment is not evidence of God or anything supernatural. Do you understand? A lack of information is not evidence of god. For example, either the Sun is a being that is drawn across the sky by a chariot or it is not. Now we have proven that it is not because someone before either doubted that or through the slow return of scientific knowledge it became more and more silly to think that it was what... supernatural. How many of these steps do we have to climb before there is so little left that COULD be supernatural. You are throwing dark matter at me to make a case for supernatural occurance, when it is in fact part of many theories regarding our universe which follows physical law. Science is always at a disadvantage in this type of arugment. You want immediate answers for everything provided, completely disregarding thousands of years of answers already verified and yet can offer no evidence whatsoever of any claim of the supernatural. Believe what you like, but knowing is a different story.

reply to post by Welfhard


I guess... i have no idea what its called, i mean its just beliefs, right?

The world is a better place without religion. christ has done nothing for any of you, and you know it as well as i do.

reply to post by miragezero

You are throwing dark matter at me to make a case for supernatural occurance, when it is in fact part of many theories regarding our universe which follows physical law. Science is always at a disadvantage in this type of arugment. You want immediate answers for everything provided, completely disregarding thousands of years of answers already verified and yet can offer no evidence whatsoever of any claim of the supernatural. Believe what you like, but knowing is a different story.

You make good points here, ironically for both of us! Do you know that?

Spirituality is always at a disadvantage here also, because like science, so much is on faith and ones perceptions and or beliefs.

No, I don't want immediate answers because I already know that much is up to interpretation. I believe in science and believe that it is nothing without philosophy to move forward.

We question, which drives us to look for answers. Since not all answers come in a physical sense, then that leaves our other senses.

I think the more direct question would be: why not God/It/Source/Creator/Grand PooBaw Scientist in the sky? What is preventing Him/It being a reality?

Think on this if you would for a moment. Leave all religion and its books out of the answer. Leave childhood religious abuse out of the answer. Leave out God is cruel out of the answer. If we leave all prejudice behind, what is left?

What is the plausibility SCIENTIFICALLY that God (or whatever you want to call it) does not exist. Now what is the possibility that there was, or is, a power with consciousness that started life?

reply to post by MatrixProphet

What is the plausibility SCIENTIFICALLY that God (or whatever you want to call it) does not exist. Now what is the possibility that there was, or is, a power with consciousness that started life?

Well wouldnt god be life? what created god? How did god come to be?

It is a good question. God is plausible, but if a power with consciousness is needed to create life with consciousness, then where did the creating force with consciousness come from..... because before that power with consciousness there was no consciousness?

Regardless of all that, You have a interesting thread going my friend. I have learned something new about the whole right brain/left brain ordeal, although I feel that too much emphasis is being placed on the right/left brain.

Take care.

I consider myself Atheist.
I think that the concept of god is unnecessary.
I have no need for an explanation of or for life.
I accept that the universe is consciousness but have no need to further question it or philosophize about it. It simply is.
And no, I don’t think that this universal consciousness is any sort of “god unit”. If anything each of us is our own “god unit”.
It appears that the prime directive of consciousness is to create.
Those who do not put effort into creating their lives sink to the bottom of the social pool, and we mistakenly call them underprivileged instead of under motivated..
I accept those so-called supernatural events as being totally natural.
I don’t consider myself “spiritual” and don’t understand what other people think that is. It just sounds meaningful.
I hear people say that humans are, “body, mind and soul”, but they don’t seem to be able to define “soul”. They do however seem to be very fearful of losing it. I have to wonder how they would know if they lost it, if they do not know what it is.
My profession was a heavily involved with so-called left brained activity, but then it also needed reasoning. Does that make it a balanced activity?
I am now retired and spending time developing my skills as an artist. After years of inactivity in this area I find that creative ideas just do not flow like they used to.
I was also involved in music, and a friend & I spend a couple of years writing songs.
With a little effort I could be very ambidextrous.

So how do I run my life? Pretty much the same way as I run my car; all actions are based the rules of the road using visual and auditory input and the feel of the road.

reply to post by UmbraSumus


Thank you so much for this video! I thought it was excellent. Thank you for going to so much work. A star for you!

It is a situation where "sides" can be easily formed to establish black or white thinking. This is exactly the sort of issues I work with daily in my work, albeit, not on the medical level but on the human experience level.

Man works out of levels of awareness and denial. Depending on a persons programming this can really vary. Most will go to any length to protect their denial or what is causing the denial.

This creates self deception, supported by programming we all receive while children. Since most are comfortable in their comfort zones of beliefs and existence, they find no need to change. Even with many indicators that it would be in their best interest if they would.

This is because of one major reason: security comes from a familiarity of a ritual, which is completely self-contained. Hence, why people don't change!!!

Conditioning can take place within a family for multi-generations. I can interview a family because one member comes to me for depression. It is not surprising to find that in some families ALL members are clinically depressed. Why? Do they all have chemical imbalances? Not necessarily, but some were conditioned in a family environment to be: depressed!

Body language will always give a person away as to their state of lying or even health. But if most are not trained to "see" the lie, or dysfunction, this person will actually believe that they are fooling everyone. They believe their own lie!! This then leads to sociopathic behavior.

So this then brings up the troublesome disorder called: Self-Defeating Personality Disorder. Compound this with all the studies being done on society and we have society that is becoming more and more disassociated.

Now, on the religious end. Yes, this can be predetermined and conditioned by family or other authorities in ones life. Since religion works so much off the information end (left brain) this can (but not always) help a person to stay in denial because they can use the authority of religion as a boundary, and not always a healthy boundary.

Spiritual or God connection does not necessarily work in the same way, unless a person makes a religion of it. This of course applies to atheists, Buddhists etc, also. Anytime hard and fast rules, or teachings, box someone in, it can lead to a separation from our "senses" which tells us something is wrong, or feels wrong, to absolute dedication, in spite of indicators showing us otherwise.

So if we don't have a balance between our analytical side and emotional side, we can develop into fanatics regardless of the belief system we are talking about. Ie, black and white fanaticism to the point where our feelings or senses are not considered, to being overly emotional or impressionable, going with every suggestion given to us.

Thank you again!

Quoting pure evil: “It is a good question. God is plausible, but if a power with consciousness is needed to create life with consciousness, then where did the creating force with consciousness come from..... because before that power with consciousness there was no consciousness? “

****You are assuming that there was no consciousness and that it had to be created.
All that is always was. Consciousness creates and recreates. Nothing is ever created or destroyed, it just get recycled. Our finite minds cannot conceive of a universe with no beginning and no end. Can anyone truly trace anything to its beginning?

Originally posted by OhZone

****You are assuming that there was no consciousness and that it had to be created.
All that is always was. Consciousness creates and recreates. Nothing is ever created or destroyed, it just get recycled. Our finite minds cannot conceive of a universe with no beginning and no end. Can anyone truly trace anything to its beginning?

You assume that I assume.

I would tend to agree with you. I was thinking in terms if god is there, where was his start. If no god, then where did we get our start? either way, it is unanswerable...

I was merely thinking aloud, I did quite like both of your posts on this page though. I tend to lean the same way. Always thinking though.

[edit on 19-5-2009 by pureevil81]