France to Declassify Transsexuality as a Mental Illness

Plus do not say that society is ok with these things, in the real world, people still judge all these things as what ever. I am sure plenty have gone through hell, living in this world, with these problems. People are scum mostly, and you will find doctors are too, to these things.

Even though france says this out loud, it is totally different having to do this in society.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Nightchild

 

Actually the new term that's been going around is "Transgender"
I like that one the best. [/quote




Yeah I agree that term are better in the way that it is more of a Umbrella-term. "Transsexual" strictly applies to those that actually "are" of the opposite sex, while "Transgender" can be used by pretty much anyone that clearly differs from the norms of genders, so to speak.

With the exception for "Intergender", however. I feel that is something in it's own distinct area.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Nightchild]

reply to post by andy1033


You would only need to switch on the television to see how all this is being force fed to the general public. I myself think that television has about 2% of quality programming the rest is utter rubbish and should be taken of the air.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
reply to post by czacza1

 

How could you even compare pedophillia to transexuality?

Sorry for the one-liner but that response really bugged me.

it is all the same process. homosexualism, transexualism, and we will go deeper and deeper until we will have only one sickness - it will be heterosexualism. sorry for this opinion but I am not going to pretend that I belive otherwise.
peace

reply to post by andy1033


I very much agree with you analysis of the situation. There is a big difference with moving something off a list such as mental disorder, and having citizens actually respect and acknowledge the change.

It all comes down to personnal opinion I guess. I for one don't even consider them different from any human being, on the simpel basis that they are still human and these terms only exist to divide us from each other.

But I am sure the prejudice and discrimination will continue so long as people are told to do so by a society built on "norms" and not individuality as it should be.

For the above poster who stated these things are all the same, that's not true. There are fundemental differences between all facets of sexuality, whether it be homosexuality or Transgenderism.

However sayin that heterosexuality will become something that is frowned upon in the future is simply ridiculous. The natural order of things to have a man reproduce with a women, it's a hard wire connection in our genetic code. I don't agree with people who use that as a excuse to bash homosexuality, but that's simply the truth of it.

It will always be seen as the "appropriate" way to be, simply because it's what we were designed for. Anything else will be seen as out of the norm, but it's the responsiblity of the populace to understand and come to terms with the reality that these things DO happen and won't stop happening, regardless of how much hate and bigotry is thrown towards the subject.

~Keeper

Curious to see, if the whole classification is dropped or just tweaked in name to be more cosmetically PC. The DSM4 has transsexualism labeled as "Gender Identity Disorder"... may be replaced with "Gender Incongruence" or "Gender Dysphoria" or what has already been embraced "Transgenderism"... which i can see elevates/equates the label with other sexual orientations i.e. gay, lesbian & bi... essentially giving the transgender community a place at the table with respect to gay rights.

Interesting to note that recreational cross dressers fall under what the DSM refers to as "Transvestic Fetishism"... which is classified as a "Paraphilia"...

Paraphilias are problems with controlling impulses that are characterized by recurrent and intense sexual fantasies, urges, and behaviors involving unusual objects, activities, or situations not considered sexually arousing to others. In addition, these objects, activities or situations often are necessary for the person's sexual functioning. With a paraphilia, the individual's urges and behaviors cause significant distress and/or personal, social or occupational dysfunction. Someone with a paraphilia may be referred to as "kinky" or "perverted," and these behaviors may have serious social and legal consequences.

source: www.medicinenet.com...

Now how to make the act of a man dressing as a woman sound less perverse/threatening?

[edit on 17-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

I think it's long overdue. What right do I have, or anyone else, to try and determine how people perceive themselves? I think of this as akin to how I view homosexuality -- I firmly believe that people are born with their sexual identity. If a person doesn't believe so, I gently ask them to think back to a time when they were exploring their sexuality ---

Did they weigh the pros and cons of being heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or did they just "know"? I knew. I always knew from the moments I took to swimming in the public pool and gazing with ravenous interest at the lifeguard perched upon that shiny platform. I knew from the time that I rode my silly scooter 12 miles to visit my first lil' girlfriend. I never once considered the alternative.

Now, if that is true, why would it be so different to suppose that a person might be born with a gender identity but just happen to have a body that is inconsistent with their known selves?

I can't for the life of me see why it is anyone's business but the person who is going through it. I don't make a point of declaring my sexuality when I meet a person for the first time......... why would we expect difference from anyone else?

I can't imagine the pain of being born with a different physiology than one knows of oneself. I really have a lot of respect for anyone who goes through all that -- the counseling, the turmoil, the physical pain and rehabilitation ....... all for the purpose of finding one's true self.

How can anyone have that hard of a heart as to judge and scorn?

Originally posted by tristar

(Can identical gender chromosomes reproduce to produce a natural species in the evolution scale).

What does reproduction have to do with it?

Do you think we don't have enough people in this world?

Do you thing that transgenderism is contagious, that if some transgender people are not labelled as sick it will become a movement that takes over the world and causes mankind to go extinct?

Are you under the impression that transgender people are necessarily homosexual?

If what happens in nature is a guide to what humans should do, are you happy to see your daughters get pregnant at puberty to whatever guy they happen to meet when they're horny?

If reproduction is your primary concern I'm sure you'll be delighted to be a granddaddy many times over by the time your daughter reaches 18.

reply to post by Kailassa


What my point is, if were are to evolve as a species then we must look at nature to see how it has allowed the billions of species on this planet to evolve and the billions of species if we are able to count that many who have not evolved.

I do realize that this is a touchy subject, but that alone cannot and should not stop the human race from actively reassessing its own path towards evolution. What once was perceived as natural in an order in society does not necessarily grant its transition into today society.

Can someone explain to me how the wrong gender (spirit) ended up in the wrong bodies ? And how does a spirit know whether it is male or female ?
My spirit does not have a gender in my humble opinion (only my body does)

I am asking those who believe in evolution to explain that to me (which I do not )

So they actually do research on this topic but gay people are just like the rest of the world... not really theres something up with them like a tiny overy inside their crotch producing estrogen or something lol

Originally posted by beautyfrompain
I think this is a positive step in the right direction. I have a few transsexual friends and when I ask them about it, most of them said it was a physical thing - how they just didn't feel right in their body.

when you think about that though, then it isn't a "physical" thing, it is how they FEEL/THINK about their body?

reply to post by tristar


I kind of agree with the point on evolution...

but we need to be distinct here, are we talking about mental or physical evolution? If we're talking about mental evolution - I'm going to go out on a limb and state that it's the important one - then surely that would involve humanity being more accepting of diversity? We're at a point when for good or ill, we can guide our own evolution, the more that science develops the less our evolutionary boundaries will hamper us.

Please excuse me for not being able to read all of the above posts prior to posting, but I get the feeling that we are giving a politician way more credit than he or she deserves.

I am not sure about France, but if this was declared in some other country, like the place that confiscates my wage in the name of taxation, than the sex change operation would no longer be covered by an insurance company. It would, in fact, become a self-financed, cosmetic, procedure. So this move could very well prove to be a budged saving one.

Kind regards, M.

reply to post by jokei


I am referring to mental as the physical is a directly linked to our surroundings. On the other hand one could argue that our mental ability is also linked to our surroundings, except that in this day an age we tend to evolve our mental state through education and experimenting based on ideas.

It is our mental sate that questions and seeks answers to our ideas or hypothesis.

Originally posted by Manawydan
Please excuse me for not being able to read all of the above posts prior to posting, but I get the feeling that we are giving a politician way more credit than he or she deserves.

I am not sure about France, but if this was declared in some other country, like the place that confiscates my wage in the name of taxation, than the sex change operation would no longer be covered by an insurance company. It would, in fact, become a self-financed, cosmetic, procedure. So this move could very well prove to be a budged saving one.

Kind regards, M.

Indeed one could argue that it might be a cosmetic surgery but in the case of transsexual or however one wishes to name it, there is a problem of "who am i and what am i"

Originally posted by fairone98501
Well as a person who can speak from first hand experience on this subject all I can say it is about time. Hopefully the APA will follow suit. Having lived my life successfully as a man for 39 years I had a spiritual experience which compelled me to come to terms with the duality of the human soul. As a part of my transformative journey I was to live as a woman not female mind you but as a woman, this was in order for me to experience life from a different perspective and I must say it has been quite revealing to the nature of our society. As a man I was in the good old boys club had the world by the tail, but now that I have lived as a woman for the past 9 years I have experienced violent physical assaults, and across the board discrimination. Why? because I refuse to be put into a box. I could hide and become a woman culturally as I "pass" but that would be living a lie and I am done with that. The fact is each of us has attributes of both genders but if we honestly express who we are we face the harsh reality that our society wants you one one team or the other. It is my opinion that my trans people recognize this and just want to adapt to society so as not to face the harsh reality that exists. As for myself I will fearlessly remain divinely androgne and challenge society to evolve. Their is not a damn thing wrong with being how the creator wants to experience you.

Awesome to hear from someone who lives this. I would like to know your opinion about screening someone through counseling before having the operation since it is currently a one way street.

Maybe in the future our science will be able to help people change from female to male or male to female as easy as outpatient surgery. How cool would that be? That might fook up Hollywood pretty good.

reply to post by tristar


Completely agreed, I think as part of our mental evolution we would become more accepting of diversity, this may or may not be a good example, but: I think a greater diversity of humanity would be (is) a great boon to mental development, mankind by nature is a problem solver, we adapt to our environment to survive, great thinkers, scientists, leaders etc have all come into their own when trying to get to grips with new challenges - mostly these challenges have been met with creativity (not destruction). More diversity, not less is a good thing, less diversity (certainly in the gene pool) isn't going to aid human-development at all.

As an aside, think of the horrors of inbreeding.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Can someone explain to me how the wrong gender (spirit) ended up in the wrong bodies ? And how does a spirit know whether it is male or female ?
My spirit does not have a gender in my humble opinion (only my body does)

I am asking those who believe in evolution to explain that to me (which I do not )

I have been a bit perplexed about this myself. To me it shouldn't matter who we choose to love, plumbing is such a superficial issue in the grand scope of things... but for some reason beyond my ability to fully comprehend i have never felt physically attracted to men... yet i can recognize a good looking guy when i see one. Sometimes i have wondered if it would be easier to get along in a gay relationship, women can be so emotionally high maintenance and in some cases financially as well but all my gay friends reassure me that it's not any different for them.

I have known a couple drag queens, but never known any transgendered, i can only imagine how difficult it would be to go through such a transformation, as well as for the loved ones. The psychological hurdles must be greater then the physical.

[edit on 22-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Maybe it's the UN that is behind France's initiative?

...the United Nations has released a new action framework, UNAIDS Action Framework on Universal Access for Men who have Sex with Men and for Transgender People
(which you can download as a PDF...)...

...here’s a quick assessment:

The bad:

•They specifically use “transgender people” for the purposes of this paper to mean male to female, as they “have much higher rates of HIV infection than ‘female to male’ transgender people.”
•Similarly, they note that lesbians may be at risk of HIV through sexual violence, but don’t discuss further the implications of that and basically drop lesbians from the rest of the paper.
•They’re a little overeager to draw the connection between reducing transmission among MSM as a conduit to reducing heterosexual transmission. But that’s getting nit-picky.
The good:

•Human rights is goal number one. This document is not playing around that human rights violations of MSM and trans people are driving the infection rates in these populations and must be addressed for any intervention to have a prayer of working. It’s VERY strong on this.
•Strong emphasis on making sure governments, non-governmental organizations, etc. can “appropriately address diverse sexuality.” One of the action points is training for UN staff.
o Under objective 1:
-The promotion and guarantee of the human rights of MSM and trans people, including protection from discrimination and removal of legal barriers to access such as laws that criminalize sex between males. (why just males? I don’t know.)
-The empowerment of MSM and trans communities to participate equally in social and political life.
-Public campaigns to address homophobia and transgender discrimination
-Training and sensitization of health care providers
-Access to medical and legal assistance for boys, men and trans people who experience sexual abuse. (again, this should have been expanded to more than men and boys.)
o Under objective 3:
-Access to drugs, gender reassignment procedures and support
-The ability to change one’s name and gender identity on official documents and the legal right to live as another gender, free from stigma or discrimination.
The awesome: They expressly state that the big Human Rights documents (Universal Declaration of Human Rights, International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights) include MSM and trans people.

source: sexgenderbody.com...

[edit on 29-5-2009 by The All Seeing I]