Time travelling

I saw some interesting topics about time-travelling, and some questions about it and this is my theory:

Time travelling is possible.
If something moves at the speed of light (the max speed, probably set by God ;+)
and more energy is put into increasing the speed, several weird things happen.

First, the mass of the object that is trying to go faster increases. Meaning the moleculs get bigger.
I have no clue why this is, but it was tested. (the speed tests in a large underground donut)

Another weird thing that happens when you move at great speed, is that time itself advances slower for objects that move that fast.
This was tested by using atomn clocks, one on the ground and one in a very fast plane, set to the exact same time.
After a while of flying, the plane lands and the clock in the plane is slightly (very slightly) changed compared to the atomn clock on the ground, time on the ground went faster then time in the plane.

What does this mean?
This means that "time travelling" is actually not travelling, just changing the flow of time on your location.
By moving at great speed, time becomes slower.
By standing still time is at its max speed.

This means that time travelling into the past is not possible.
You can't move slower than non-moving.
This also means that timetravelling into the future is possible, meaning that you will experience one week for the earth as one day for you.
If a camera would be pointed at you while you are flying in your spaceship, and the world looks at you they will see you move and talk extremely slow.
All processes in your body would become extremely slow.
So instead of calling it time travelling, you could also call it time-stretching on your location.
Stretching your "one day" to a year in "real time" by moving at great speed.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Jakko]

Isnt this a topic of many sci fi space travel movies?...I dont know much about time travel...but Ive heard all of this before somewhere...correct me if im wrong...

You seem to be referring to Special Relativity. There are a lot of interesting links on Special Relativity in Amantines Science Resources Page

Or for some easier to understand information, you can always rely on our mates over at howstuffworks.com to cover us.
Howstuffworks: Relativity
Howstuffworks: How Time Travel Will Work

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Kano]

Jakko...If speed is the deciding factor in your time travel equation then you are incorrect. The speed of an object on earth is imaterial. I think that all matter is in fact moving all the time. If I were to travel back in time to a point 2 seconds ago. I would either be A.) In the Air about 10 miles or B.) Inside the earth.
Even If you stand perfectly still you are still moving close to 1000 miles per hour around the circumfrence of a sphere, if you believe the earth is round,your still moving around the sun in a big sphere(not sure of this speed)? This whole spinning contraption called the solar system is then speeding through our local galaxy. I think that the area of space were entering now will have tremendous effects on mother earth. I think were are speeding through time and your molecules probably are never-ever-ever in the same space again...Ever! So if you had something that could time travel you would also need one hell of a computer to accurately cut the power and move you to a spot in the universe that is habitable by your body.

Just my thoughts on the matter

This means that "time travelling" is actually not travelling, just changing the flow of time on your location.

I believe time travelling IS travelling, as it is a movement from one place to another, through time,the 4th dimension.And yes, i believe you are rite Jakka, we can travel through time, although, is it possible for entire beings like us to do it?Wad is time travelling to another may only be like normal time to another.

Originally posted by chickenchecker0945
Jakko...If speed is the deciding factor in your time travel equation then you are incorrect. The speed of an object on earth is imaterial. I think that all matter is in fact moving all the time.

Relativity is all about relative velocity. If you travel at 50% of the speed of light past the earth, the earth observer sees your clock running slower. You, however, see the earth racing past you at 50% the speed of light and see all the clocks on earth running slow. Kano's links explain this pretty well.

Originally posted by Jakko
This means that "time travelling" is actually not travelling, just changing the flow of time on your location.

That's why it's called "Relativity." The effect of time is relative to each individual observer depending on their current velocity.

Originally posted by Jakko
This means that time travelling into the past is not possible.

Not necessarily. There are quite a few interesting, but rather unlikely, theories that show how it might be possible to tavel back in time.

If you are interestd, I recommend "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe." It's an excellent book:
www.amazon.com...=1083172935/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6718397-9550311?v=glance&s=books

The speed of objects is actually not immaterial.
The speed of the rotation of the earth or around the sun, are nothing compared to the speed you need to have to make time advance slower.

This brings up a very interesting question, to what point can our movement truly be related?
The earth moves, so the first spot that seems to stand still would be the sun, but what if even the sun does not stand still?

Originally posted by 23rd_Degree
Not necessarily. There are quite a few interesting, but rather unlikely, theories that show how it might be possible to tavel back in time.

If you are interestd, I recommend "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe." It's an excellent book:
www.amazon.com...=1083172935/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6718397-9550311?v=glance&s=books

Yeah I think I read a few of those theories, but they don't make sense to me.
You can bend time like I explained, but you will never reach the point where time no longer advances in your spot.
It's like a variable ranging between 0.0000001 and "max".
On earth, time is almost at it max speed, because our movement and the movements in our solar system are way too slow to bend time.
But if you start to move faster, time will pass less fast, the "time speed variable" will drop, but it can never reach 0 or anything under 0.

Time bending changes you, and your body and how fast the processes in your body work, nothing outside of the object that is time bending is changed.
This means that if you would succeed at getting the time speed var on 0, you would no longer do anything at all/your body would not work/age anything.
Untill you collide with planets of course. ;+)
Getting the time speed var under 0 would (in theory) make you younger, not the world around you.
I don't think it can ever reach 0.

Yeah Kano, interesting links.
The "easy" links are kind of weird though.
Travelling back into the past is not even possible based on what they say, still they talk about it as if it is the same as traveling into the future.
And using black holes for time traveling will only make you and your aircraft as flat as a penny. (you will basicly die)

Ready for me to argue with myself? Read on!

I think that time travel to the future isn't possible since it hasn't happened yet. But since the past has happened, we are able to go back to it. Once we are in the past and need to go back, we essentially go back to that past's future (our present - the time we left from). That would mean time is a finite continuum, with the present at the most recent end. However, when we want to return to our time (from that past), would time have advanced (meaning we return to an 'older' world) or will we return to the time we left at?

But if it is possible to travel to the past and then back to the present (the past's future, the future's past), it would make sense for the people of the present's future (also the past's future) to return to it's past (our present, still the past's future) - an infinite continuum. Would that mean infinite timelines? Infinite universes? Infinite dimensions?

I will draw these two theories (with MS Paint!) and upload them to my website.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

does this mean that someone who runs alot instead of sits on the couch ages slower?

spangbr, yes i suppose it would relative to someone else (but not to u). It might make your life longer by 0.00000000000010 seconds or something at those sort of speeds. If you were travelling at 0.99c then it would be noticeable. You wouldn't think that you were living longer, but someone else would as they are not in motion (relative to you; say on earth; you are in a space ship) but they wouldn't think they ages quicker either though, but you would. So the space ship dude would live longer if he returned to live back on earth, but i think that if he lived in space ship for ever he wouldnt notice a difference.(earth ppl would)

Originally posted by xenophanes85
Ready for me to argue with myself? Read on!

I think that time travel to the future isn't possible since it hasn't happened yet. But since the past has happened, we are able to go back to it. Once we are in the past and need to go back, we essentially go back to that past's future (our present - the time we left from). That would mean time is a finite continuum, with the present at the most recent end. However, when we want to return to our time (from that past), would time have advanced (meaning we return to an 'older' world) or will we return to the time we left at?

But if it is possible to travel to the past and then back to the present (the past's future, the future's past), it would make sense for the people of the present's future (also the past's future) to return to it's past (our present, still the past's future) - an infinite continuum. Would that mean infinite timelines? Infinite universes? Infinite dimensions?

I will draw these two theories (with MS Paint!) and upload them to my website.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by xenophanes85]

I think a common mistake made, is that time travelling is seen as a process manipulating your environment.
It is actually the opposite of that, you merely manipulate yourself and the objects that travel on high speed with you.
Meaning, you slow down time for yourself. (your 5 minutes is 5 hours for the rest of the world)
This is why I think time can never be stopped totally, the closer you get to timespeed 0, the harder it gets to decrease the timespeed.


This also explains why travelling to the past is not possible.
High speed leads to a slower time advance for you. (a faster time advance for the world around you from your point of view)
To revert this project you would have to create a faster time advance for you. (a slower time advance for the world around you from your point of view)
Besides the fact that this could only be accomplished by moving slower then "not moving at all", it would mean watching the world stand still while you live your life normally. (for the worlds perception you would age and die within a split second)

I posted another topic about using time travelling for journeys into space in the space forum:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

This week's New Scientist has an interesting article concerning the physics of time. Unfortunately, the article is only available in print at the moment. I'll be buying my copy on the way home from work today and report back with some info.

Originally posted by Jakko
I saw some interesting topics about time-travelling, and some questions about it and this is my theory:

Time travelling is possible.
If something moves at the speed of light (the max speed, probably set by God ;+)
and more energy is put into increasing the speed, several weird things happen.

First, the mass of the object that is trying to go faster increases. Meaning the moleculs get bigger.
I have no clue why this is, but it was tested. (the speed tests in a large underground donut)

Another weird thing that happens when you move at great speed, is that time itself advances slower for objects that move that fast.
This was tested by using atomn clocks, one on the ground and one in a very fast plane, set to the exact same time.
After a while of flying, the plane lands and the clock in the plane is slightly (very slightly) changed compared to the atomn clock on the ground, time on the ground went faster then time in the plane.

What does this mean?
This means that "time travelling" is actually not travelling, just changing the flow of time on your location.
By moving at great speed, time becomes slower.
By standing still time is at its max speed.

This means that time travelling into the past is not possible.
You can't move slower than non-moving.
This also means that timetravelling into the future is possible, meaning that you will experience one week for the earth as one day for you.
If a camera would be pointed at you while you are flying in your spaceship, and the world looks at you they will see you move and talk extremely slow.
All processes in your body would become extremely slow.
So instead of calling it time travelling, you could also call it time-stretching on your location.
Stretching your "one day" to a year in "real time" by moving at great speed.

[Edited on 28-4-2004 by Jakko]

Part of the problem with these statements is that you used the term "real time". There is no base time that can be measured according to relativity (which may in fact not be 100% true). The only "real time" would be the time that you experience relative to yourself.

Now, you mentioned above things like the molecules get bigger. You also referenced Partical accelerators (Giant donut thing in the ground). Relativity can be tested in some ways in these partical acceleraters. For instance, we can take a particle with a half life of lets say 1 second, and extend that half life significalntly by accelerating the particle at near the speed of light. That does not mean that the particle traveled in time. Rather it means that the partical experienced time differently relative to me and you.

Now, you were stating above about molecules and how they get bigger. Now, when time dilation occurs, along with that comes things like length contraction and the increase of mass. Remember though, that these are all relative to the observer. So if it was you accelerating at high speeds, you would not be able to tell that your time was being expereinced differently, nor would you be able to notice your increased mass, nor would you be able to notice length contraction. It would only be able to be observed by a seperate observer.

"What does this mean?
This means that "time travelling" is actually not travelling, just changing the flow of time on your location.
By moving at great speed, time becomes slower.
By standing still time is at its max speed. "

This is almost correct. All that needs added is "relative to an observer" after the word slower. Also, remember that there is no absolute reference frame to be "standing still".

What speed do the electrons that orbit the nucleus of ALL the molecules of your body travel at? I would think all these speeds would have to be equal for all parts of your body to make a jump! But thats just not possible today. If you could make all these electons in your body travel a "c" would you no longer age?

IMO, the world repeats itself! like a tape put on a replay! you are born again and again and again! and it never ends!

so by stretching the time, you may get caught up to the next cycle of life! which means that you actually haven't traveled back but waited for the next cycle and then stopped in a time you want

[Edited on 29-4-2004 by CyberGhost]

Quest, you were wrong.
If a place is 20 lightyears away, and you travel there at the speed of light the following will happen:

Back on earth we will think it took 20 years.
In the aircraft they will think it took (for example) 10 years. This means that from the pilots point of view he travelled with twice the speed of light.
And from his viewpoint he would be right.