Torture Continues at Guantánamo Bay

reply to post by iamjesusphish


They were asked to take them and refused. I'd guess because they are dangerous Terrorists.

So on what moral ground would Spain criticize if they believe these are not dangerous men?

Actually nothing in the OP article is from the Government of Spain. It is just about an Attorneys rantings.

reply to post by iamjesusphish


We are both posting too fast. Sorry.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I am aware that this isn't from the Spainish Gov't. I am not saying they are not dangerous prisoners in any way. I am anti-torture and believe it needs to stop regardless of who says its happening. It is unacceptable. I am always up for a good debate.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

As to the red cross being at gitmo I found this article which I was unaware of....

"WASHINGTON - Medical personnel who monitored the harsh CIA interrogations of "high value" prisoners at secret overseas sites violated medical ethics, the International Committee of the Red Cross says in a report.

The 2007 report, based on interviews with 14 detainees who were held at the secret sites before being transferred in September 2006 to the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, said the health personnel monitored detainees as they were subjected to techniques such as waterboarding — which simulates drowning — and prolonged stress positions.

In some cases, the Red Cross reported, medical staff recommended stopping the treatment; in others they "recommended its continuation, but with adjustments." The report said the 14 detainees were interviewed by Red Cross officials at the Guantanamo camp in October 2006.
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One detainee told the Red Cross that while still being held at a secret site, "a health person threatened that medical care would be conditional upon cooperation with the interrogators."

Report: Interrogation process flawed
The report said the health personnel's "primary purpose appears to have been to serve the interrogation process, and not the patient."

"The interrogation process is contrary to international law," the Red Cross said, "and the participation in such a process is contrary to international standards of medical ethics."

The confidential 43-page report was published Monday on the Web site of The New York Review of Books. Journalist Mark Danner, who obtained the report, revealed some of its findings last month in an article in the Review.

The neutral, Swiss-based ICRC is designated by the Geneva Conventions on warfare to visit prisoners of war and other people detained by an occupying power, to ensure countries respect their obligations under the 1949 accords. The ICRC was granted private access by the Bush administration to the 14 prisoners after they were moved from secret interrogation sites and prisons to the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay in 2006"
source

[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

reply to post by iamjesusphish


Don't quote a source and then change the wording in your post, if you change the wording then you are the source. This shows a complete lack of intelligence as you assume none of us will read the source for ourselves. ( on a side note Wiki's are hardly a legitimate source for information, since any person can modify at will, any of the wording and add false information). you are showing a complete lack of debating ability.


nice ninja edit there, I luckily still have a screenshot I took so I could look at the info you posted without all the back and forth windows stuff.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by uncommon-sense]

reply to post by uncommon-sense


I have not changed any of the wording of any of these sources. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why are so many of you so hostile? Show me what I have changed and I will admit to being an moron with a 136 IQ...




[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

Originally posted by iamjesusphish
reply to post by uncommon-sense

 

I have not changed any of the wording of any of these sources. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why are so many of you so hostile?


[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

read my edit above...I still have your original post.

reply to post by uncommon-sense


I can't seem to find the error in his post either? Perhaps you should quote what he changed since your making allegations?

Anyway back to topic.

In any case regardless of what these people are doing with detainnees or where they will send them, torture is flat out wrong, in any situation.

Have we not learned anything from WW2 or the genocide in Rwanda?

Come people, the US touts itself as being the leader of the free world who sets the example. How can we condemn terrorists for their actions when our own country is participating in the same kind of behaviour?

Regardless of wether it works or not, which I believe it doesn't, America has a global responsibility to act as they would like to be treated, and right now, they are acting in a way that invites terrorists and creates anti-american sentiment all over the world.

~Keeper

reply to post by uncommon-sense


Yea, it was a ninja edit that was an old old article... My apologies.

No need for personal attacks though as that is against the T and C's...

Exactly keeper that has been my point all along in the OP. So many hostile noobs on tonight. I am enjoying myself though. Some flags would be appreciated since this thread is so long...

[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

[edit on 16-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

reply to post by iamjesusphish


Ahh but flags aren't for just long discussions friend, it's for the quality of information being presented .

You'll get one soon enough, I don't give them out as easily anymore because of various reasons the most being most breaking news articles aren't worthy of them since the information being presented is one sided and usually from only one source.

Anyway, that's no the point.

I agree with you totally on the aspect of torture and still would like to know what you posted that was wrong?

~Keeper

he completely changed the post, he had originally "quoted" the laws on habeas corpus but with the wording changed to his own words not what was on the page he linked. he knows what he did , that was the reason for his edit.

and as far as saying we are doing the same things as them... you must be kidding right, you must not have seen how they treat prisoners of war.
the facts remain that the prisoners housed at gitmo(with the exception of 1 american) were not entitled to rights under the laws of the united states. These prisoners are to be held until the end of the war.

reply to post by uncommon-sense


I am not sure what I did wrong... The only thing I noticed that was incorrect was the original red cross article that was from 2006 and once I noticed that I put a new article from April in. As to what is wrong about gitmo is that the geneva convention says all prisoners of war are entitled to the rights given by Habeas Corpus, I am wrong?

I see you made amends, cool. now you have regained my respect. I feel the taking of prisoners in any conflict is wrong, but it seems unavoidable. I also feel they should be treated no worse than a prisoner in any other maximum security prison. The EIT's used were only done by the CIA and only on a few of the prisoners. apparently only two were waterboarded, according to the complaint.

reply to post by iamjesusphisht


Calling me ignorant is typical of a person who quite simply does not understand the global repercussions that this kind of press has. And to quote Habeas Corpus, thats funny. Do you even know who Matt Maupin or Eugene Armstrong are? Do you think they were given a Miranda warning before they were beheaded. Have you ever fought in a war? Have you ever looked down the barrel of an Ak-47 wielded by a 13 year old kid who believes you are a blond haired blue eyed devil from the west. Self righteous idiots often condemn what is termed as torture because they have no clue as to what it takes to gain peace and stability in an area that has NEVER known either. I hate George Bush Jr. just as much as the next brainwashed liberal moron but I certainly am not naive enough to believe everything I read on websites like these. And for you to regurgitate what you read and hear in the media at me of all people makes you look just as ignorant as you think I am. The difference is that I actually did my own research, often firsthand,in the last 15 years and I know the difference between bamboo splinters under the fingernails and sleep deprivation. Get a clue.

Originally posted by iamjesusphish
reply to post by uncommon-sense

 

I am not sure what I did wrong... The only thing I noticed that was incorrect was the original red cross article that was from 2006 and once I noticed that I put a new article from April in. As to what is wrong about gitmo is that the geneva convention says all prisoners of war are entitled to the rights given by Habeas Corpus, I am wrong?

yes you are re-read the bottom, enemy combatants do not qualify under any of the new judgements. Only the sole american detained does.

reply to post by uncommon-sense


And somehow you think that's right?

And yes we are doing what they do. Have you ever looked into the Economic Hit Men or the false flag attacks that were done to overthrow dictators and place puppet governments?

That's not even the point, the point is torturing a human being for ANY reason is plain wrong, how could you not see that?

I don't understand today's logic, so long as it's not happening on your soil then you don't care and that makes it ok. What it were American citizens being treated that way by let's say Australia? Would you feel the same way even if the government and police agencies told you they were murdering terrorists?

What proof have you seen that these people are terrorists? Or how other treat POW's? And don't refer to Vietnam or any of the WW's as they are far behind us and the world is a very different place.

~Keeper

reply to post by uncommon-sense


I am happy I have your respect again lol, anyways yeah but just as this original news article may be propaganda the number of prisoners tortured could also be propaganda. You never know...

reply to post by uncommon-sense


Sure, cause they decided to call them "enemy combatants" instead of POW's, that makes it ok for them to do whatever they want.

Ofcourse, NOW I GET IT.

Simpletons...(the government not anybody here)

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Spot on. I like the way you try to state it so others may understand. Its called empathy for another human being. The way the American prisoners in our country are treated is very questionable but thats another topic. Just imagine being in the other person shoes that are being tortured when in a possibility are innocent? The ones that are guilty should be convicted like any other prisoner and sentenced. Torture is unacceptable no matter what way you spin it. Don't assume all the prisoners at gitmo are guilty and the term terrorists was spread by the Bush administration to create fear in the public.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The supreme court made the descision, We must live by their rulings, besides were those people not actively trying to kill people? so we are worse for getting water up their nose? after you are waterboarded you feel fine in less than a minute, when you are hit by a mortar or in an explosion caused by an IED you never feel anything again, or are left with lifelong injuries.