America threatens trade war with China

Originally posted by Common Good
The way this sounds to me, its pretty simple really.

Dealer one(USA) has a bag of sugar at the price of $50.
Dealer two(China) has a bag of sugar at the price of $45.
Dealer one gets mad at dealer two for selling cheaper goods to stay in buisness while driving dealer one in the dirt.
So Dealer One wages war on Dealer Two to keep the Market fair.
Makes sense to me.

If I am way off on this, hip me to the game.

I wonder if this is a mere coincedence or if it has anything to do with the new 'rules' implemented by china a few weeks ago in regards to Debt to GDP ratio staying the at the same rate despite deflation?

Originally posted by Common Good
The way this sounds to me, its pretty simple really.

Dealer one(USA) has a bag of sugar at the price of $50.
Dealer two(China) has a bag of sugar at the price of $45.
Dealer one gets mad at dealer two for selling cheaper goods to stay in buisness while driving dealer one in the dirt.
So Dealer One wages war on Dealer Two to keep the Market fair.
Makes sense to me.

If I am way off on this, hip me to the game.

if dealer two has a lower costs and lower income than it is a free market than. you can not ask all dealers to keep the same prices cause it is against the law (monopoly).

and BTW there are no chance to fight now agains China. they have all aces in the hand at the moment. you can protect your market but at the end you will loose anyway. the only choice is to lower your own costs and try to fight. as a EU resident I could say that the prices of some electronics from US are killing the production in EU so let's start a war against US producers. tax it and stop import from there.

reply to post by Common Good


what i'm saying is corporate america has overpriced their own goods. the result is forcing internal demand to look outside the country for a cheaper product.
maintaining shrinking profit margins is the direct reason for outsourcing. china has a cheaper product and doesn't overvalue their currency for that exact reason.

now corporate america can see how deep the pit is and is pushing "buttons" to devalue china's currency.

[edit on 13/5/09 by spearhead]

Now I will let you know right now I am no that educated in this matter to be honest with you, but when you import merchandise,shouldnt it cost more?You ever buy an Imported beer? Everywhere you go to get one, it costs $1-$2 more per beer. Why? Because its imported.

China...Im sorry to say, is able to do these things because of their manipulation to the market. Not to mention all of the slave labor that they have going on in order to make these goods 'cheaper'. So everytime you buy something from (wal-mart as an example)..just remember there was probably some 6 year old kid behind the machine press in order for you to save that $1.50 you so desperately needed.

You comming after me tonight arent ya?
lol/its all good. I think we are the only ones up this late anyways so its ok.

reply to post by Common Good


yeah.... its just good sport.

and yes imported goods should be more expensive due to transport costs and currency fluctuation. the reason i say "own goods" are overpriced is the price 'here' goes up but doesn't over 'there'.
not to many people trouble themselves with buying over there because you have to wait for it. as opposed to if you buy here you get it almost immediately. this 'as shadowed the profiteering going on in the western world.

a common currency would eliminate trade issues such as these.

[edit on 13/5/09 by spearhead]

" "own goods" are overpriced is the price 'here' goes up but doesn't over 'there'. "

Isnt that what this is all about ?

China produce shoddy goods, put poison in food, lead in toys and apparently don't have to abide by any food and manufacturing legislation at all.
It's a free for all. And we don't appear to be able to sue them either for the lead in the toys and melamine in the baby's milk.

I'm sure the West could produce products very cheaply with no conditions and not being answerable legally for the repercussions.

So it's hardly free trade when one side is operating with one arm tied behind it's back.

China got rich fraudulently and I'm quite surprised that they got away with it for so long.
We would be well within our rights to begin lawsuits against a lot of chinese manufacturers and get our money back legitimately that way.

reply to post by czacza1


I get what you are saying, but there is also the fact of quality of goods.
If my sugar is better than your sugar than I have every right to charge more for it no?
But if you both have the same quality material, and you sell it for WAY less than I am, isnt that in itself a monopoly?

reply to post by Common Good


Well if i was a consumer i would still buy from dealer 2, unless dealer 1 drops his price lower than $45 cause he has to make it worth while for me to switch suppliers?

reply to post by Daniel666


I feel you on that, but you have to know that by doing that, you arent exactly in the know of what you are getting. As an above poster stated, a lot of these producers do not have someone watching over them making sure the things that they put out to the people is safe.
Yea you might save a buck or two...but at the same time you might also rack up $50,000 in medical expenses just to save pennies.

reply to post by Common Good


so ask the question...
why do costs go up here......?

because of inflation. inflate the cost of everything to increase immediate profit.but when somebody else doesn't inflate with you, your left high and dry.

china uses a different currency so their 'static' costs went unnoticed until domestic suppliers really started importing goods rather than sourcing goods from domestic producers.

the commercial world has three main men.
the 1st man - producers/growers/suppliers
the middle man - retail/manufacturing
3rd man - customer

the '1st man' contains the most labour and so jobs suffer, domestic costs inflate to cope with losses and the whole cycle spirals downwards.

people don't have jobs, so they don't have money, retail falls. the the need for supply dries up and the whole system collapses.
we are about 2/3 of the way through the downfall.
after recession comes depression.

reply to post by Common Good


True but in todays world where EVERYTHING revolves around money.
A couple of pennies are worth more than our lifes!

Sadly, That is the evil of capitalizm!

reply to post by spearhead



This isnt about just America though. Its the entire global financial system.
Everyone right now is hurting, so therefor we should all be working together in order to fix this mess or this world is going to find itself fighting each other more and more in order to gain control of the markets and industry no? Like I said, Im not that well versed in economics, but I know enough to know that when certain players of the game are not playing by the rules, then someone is bound to get hurt. The way this article seems to come across to me is that China is not playing by the rules, and I doubt we here in the US are either because of the guy running things right now who dumped all of that fake money into our system only causing inflation which doesnt help the cause any. So in an essence, arent we all failing?

Originally posted by Common Good
But if you both have the same quality material, and you sell it for WAY less than I am, isnt that in itself a monopoly?

Isn't telling another how much they can or can't charge called price fixing/manipulation? What is it called when a government decides what you can and can't buy, and who you can or can't buy from, and how much or little you must pay for that which you seek?

If i am not mistaken China warned before to use the monetary nuke to sell most if not all of their dollar reserves/bonds if the US threatened with a conflict over the Yuan..after all the US had a free choice of becoming such a close trading partner with such a criminal dictatorial regime..

reply to post by Divinorumus


Hey I agree with you. Nobody should be able to tell someone what they can or cannotbuy, and from whom they can or cant buy it from. I agree with you a hundred percent.
I just asked a question, it had no meaning behind it, just a simple question that I still havent got an answer to.
Like i said earlier, Im not well versed in economics, so naturally I am going to ask questions instead of pretending to know everything =)
Whats your take on all of this?

Originally posted by Common Good
Whats your take on all of this?

Fiat money, funny money, and all these different versions of it, that's one of the BIG problems I think.

What we need is a common WORLD currency, and one that is backed by something tangible, something that can't be easily manipulated, a currency that can't be devalued so that that dollar I earned and stuck away for a rainy day will still have its original promised value when I received it as it should when I decide to spend it, even 30 years from now. We've been being used and robbed ever since the creation of fiat money. Every time they arbitrarily decide to print up more and further deflate its value, they are robbing us. That upsets me the most.

There would be no trade deficit if we all used a common world currency, we would simply go broke as a nation if we maintain this imbalance in trade, and not into debt because we kept printing up fiat IOUs. Fiat money was invented so that they, the PTB, could keep us enslaved and forever on the loosing end of this game. Look at how we use our fiat money to enslave Chinese workers. If we were on some kind of gold standard once again, this trade deficit with China could not happen because the game would be over once we exported all our gold for imported iPods.

I know a lot of people fear something like a ONE World Currency, but honestly, I think THAT would be in our best interest, us the citizens of Earth, and would not be in the best interests of the PTB. If we were using a one world currency, no one nation could manipulate the value of their currency and its exchange rate to create an unfair trade practices.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Divinorumus]

Okay - this is crazy - the U.S. is in NO position to be demanding anything from China! China is the ONLY thing that is keeping us going - they are still buying our T-bills!

It seems the govt. is trying to create a problem with China - why is that?

The only thing it will accomplish is putting the U.S. in more dire straights!

It really does not make sense the U.S. doing this - unless there is another motive behind this - for something else to come from it. Like hyperinflation before China can get the dollar tied to it - so the U.S. can pay off the debts right away?
Just a thought.

If 'Dealer A' invents iPhones and wishes to sell them to 'Customers A' he uses 'Dealer B' to produce them as they work harder and for less.

'Customers B' are, for the best part, communists and have little need for throwaway consumerist toys.

'Dealer A' ends up with no 'Customers A' as no-one can afford their iPhone anymore.

'Dealer B' is happy to change whatever he produces to something that is of benefit to 'Customers B'.

'Customers A' blame 'Dealer B' for making the toys instead of 'Dealer A' who was only try to save money for 'Shareholders X'.

'Shareholders X' laugh and commit all their money to Dealer B for the moment to keep it safe - all the while eying up potential military money that could be made from 'Dealer A' against 'Dealer B' in the future.

And that's not even bringing in the bailouts for capitalist countries!!

-m0r

reply to post by questioningall


You are so right is not funny, even Japan is now campaigning to stop the buying out of US Treasuries and they are our second biggest buyer.

Also China won one with the EU, their currency is now to be accepted by traders.

I think our nation is now a littler to late to do anything, after all they better don't do anything to make China mad, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.