Armed Revoultion Possible, Not So Difficult

Hi,

Originally posted by Allegory of Illumination
I heard in a video, Vietnamese leaders stated they were willing to lose 10 of their own men to kill one of ours. They would consider that worth it and a victory.

I hadn't seen actual numbers... thank you

What you heard is in my knowledge quite inaccurate. The Vietnamese , just like the rest of us, value their own lives but were not given much of a choice when it came to defending themselves against foreign invaders who insisted on massacring those suspected of being 'communist' ( read 'devil worshipers', etc) or generally not 'cooperative' enough.

One should not buy into the notion that Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Russians or others like to die in large numbers when resisting foreign invasions but sadly that's the situation they found themselves given how their invaders where just not interested in leaving or negotiating any type of decent settlement.

So in closing it's not that the Vietnamese were truly willing to die in such numbers to 'kill Americans' ( they had to accept the same against the French and the Chinese) but that it was the exchange ratio they were forced to accept to defend their country until such a time as the invader were no longer willing to accept the costs associated with their imperial ambitions.

Excuse the verbosity.

Stellar

Originally posted by xxpigxx
reply to post by Vilkata

 

If you are not free, you might as well be dead.

I think you just raised a very interesting 'belief' which history has shown to be utterly false. Human beings are primarily ( i would say overwhelmingly so) interested in having sufficient food, a decent place to call home and a family and friends to share it with. When such is met they will give up practically all their other rights/freedoms, especially when threatened with violence, to arrange the security of the above noted. Obviously you can press people too far ( like some of you claim to be) and take away too much but that's the type of thing 'TPTB' ( yes,yes i don't disagree) are past masters at avoiding hence the horribly economic system that is practically almost bordering on taking you to the cleaners.

If you believe that people want to be 'free' independent of those natural human ambitions you will find 'the trenches' decidedly empty and your 'friends' and 'neighbors' ( that claim to love 'freedom') wearing SWAT uniforms or joining the republican guard/whatever other state militia's to ensure that their homes are secure and their families cared for. Remember that you will be called a 'foreign insurgent' ( there are very few in Iraq but that's what their claimed to be) bringing about all the consequences to the 'insurgent's' , your, support base.

Stellar



[edit on 14-5-2009 by StellarX]

I read through all the posts and the most notable post a lot of people make is this "whoever thinks the U.S. military would kill its own civilians is an idiot or blah blah"

Do we have to look at history here.... How the military in EVERY country kills its own ALL THE TIME.

hitler and the nazi's slaughtered millions of their own

civil war we killed eachother over beleifs, laws and labor laws.

gangis kahn desimated all of asia and after RUINING the peoples villages would recruit them as his military power... and they would fight for him out of fear even after he slayed their families.

rome has been fought over numerous times by neighboring provinces.... woman and children raped and murdered....

The U.S. military grunts are made up of mostly people with bad criminal backgrounds who used the military to better their lives... most of them are educated with a G.E.D. and they may be nice people.... but they are going to obey whatever commands come down the pipe...

Even the intellegant military personell love their jobs and can easily be manipulated into doing whatever the high powers want them to do.

the military is made up primarily of high school and college dropouts. dont beleive me? look it up. you think our nation is somehow different from all the rest that slaughter their own people?

think again. shooting a muslim from 30 yards and shooting you... an american citizen from 30 yards is just as easy for any man.

on a side note... the military people have my upmost respect and this is not to degrade them at all. Their are plenty of intelligent people in the military and lots of good souls, but manipulation is very powerful.

and another side note..... half of our country is fat and out of shapre... the military does not belong in that half. so the 250 million possible recruits....

a good chunk are over 50... basically useless in combat (maybe some can pull it off but most have health issues at that age.)

a good chunk are under 14..... also useless unless you want to degrade yourself to what the taliban do.

thats prolly half of that 250 million out the window.... 125 million now.... which most will be too scared to go against the government.

lets say even 50% are willing to go against the government (which is rediculously high) 62.5 million possible recruits.

most are out of shape.... welcome to fat america.. some have health issues.. some will wet their pants the first time an automatic weapon is fired in their direction...

im not saying a revolution couldnt work.... but in this day in age we should think of a smarter way. this is the information age. use your head to win your battles.

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

 

It goes a long way in explaining why you fear a "revolt", considering the powers that be in DC now. Keep up the good work for them, I'm sure you'll be rewarded handsomely. 20 million Russians, 3 million Cambodians, etc can't be wrong, can they? They got their rewards from their masters as well, once their usefulness was over.

I don't fear revolt, revolt is natural. I do fear for the lives of others while this "revolt" is undertaken. There is no common alliance, no common enemy, and no clear common objective. It's just a bunch of angry people pissed off for a multitude of reasons, backed by a diverse range of ideology and agendas, and any sort of just "mob rule" will be grounds for chaos, dischord, destruction.

I do not want my family embroiled in such a state. In fact, I would thrive, but my family, even your family would be sitting ducks. Ultra-vulnerable, not only to the unruly people with unknown intentions, but also to the government that thinks everybody is the enemy.

I'm not here defending the government, as some of the policies in the last 30 years have been truly disgusting, especially in regards to taxation and Bush' and Obama's bailouts. I have a lot to say about them as a concerned citizen, do I drive that point home through someone with a bullet? If so, who? Why? And can you justify the murder of somebody because you're "angry." No, you can't.

It seems as if everybody here, with the exception of Dooper and a few others even have any idea as to how to coordinate this effort, but what about the majority of "sky is falling and somebody is following me" who are armed and are in a state of angry disarray? Could you imagine the threat they would pose to anybody, especially a well intended revolution.

This topic is deeper than, "We're pissed and have guns." That's called mania! The same type of mania that happened in Russia and Cambodia. The same mania that elected the most brutal men that imposed their will through guns and aggression upon 20 million Russians and 3 million Cambodians. Those stemmed from a "people's revolution." A long with those revolutions delivered an iron will of one man's ideology who subjected millions to death and torture.

You're not making a change, I doubt anybody here is, especially if they're talking about the use of physical violence to achieve a desired outcome. The "desired" outcome seems to be as ambiguous as the actions they want to take to attain them.

everyone wake up and realize that the government is made up of our friends and families, the military is made up of our friends and our families, and the united states population is made up of our friends and our families....

which side will you take?

reply to post by sciencenewby


It would be one thing if anything, and by that, I mean ONE SINGLE THING you stated, had any truth.

Aside from a bizarre sense of truth, you remind me of summer vacation.

No class.

Originally posted by sciencenewby
everyone wake up and realize that the government is made up of our friends and families, the military is made up of our friends and our families, and the united states population is made up of our friends and our families....

which side will you take?

You are absolutely right.
There's no government caste and military caste, like in ancient India. America is a complex society with relationships spanning all differences.You wouldn't have to shoot many people before you shot one who was known to someone you know. Soon everybody would be at war with everyone else.

I doubt this "movement", being started by posters in various forums all claiming virtually identical emotive garbage as their own, is being organised by an American.

I believe it is being organised by a sly enemy of America, whose loyalty is to a distant country, who hates America and wants to see Americans pull their country to pieces like a pack of rabid dogs.

People supporting this are brainless traitors.

Or just not American.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Hmmm... today they have thermal imaging, UAVs, robots... cameras everywhere, high altitude blimps, microwave guns and the biggest enemy of a rebellion... the Obama lovers. It wouldn't be a revolution, it would be a civil war.

IMO in the end we would probably win but the death rate of the resistance would be freaking high. But it would be crazy... Just imagine in each big city in america, put a team of 10 special ops and they can turn the whole city to panic.

And if the people really rebels, the government won't just stand there, they will release a virus or do some kind of false-flag terrorist attack and blame it on the resistance... let's say they blow up New York and kill 500,000 citizens and blame it on the militias... IMO a lot of troops will believe it and they'll even ask for NATO troops and mercenaries and yes they will fight the white terrorists as they brand us in Homeland Security documents.

But as times passes, the people will wake up and fight for the resistance side. If the government wants to win this future war, they'll have to win it fast or else they'll lose.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Vitchilo]

[edit on 14-5-2009 by DragonriderGal]

i feel the need to reply as hopefully to be the voice of reason


id like to first state, i think its incredible more and more people are getting angry with how things are, its great that more and more people are saying enough is enough and they want change, not just some marketing gimmick and catchphrase

i think its very important that americans are finally awakening and wishing to stand up to those in power


what i find worrying is that we are more willing to actually try a violent revolution rather then use the polls


i ask us all to be realistic in the situation here

what are we really thinking about

armed revolution?
we really think the military, the police? will be on our sides?
id be careful of the naivety in that idea
even if somehow that were to end up being the case

it would be extremely naive and honestly ignorant if one were to actually count on that definitely being the case

now are many americans armed? sure they are, but its not just arms that win a war, what about resources?

what about the deaths?
the setbacks?
the loss of technology and ways of life?
the loss of knowledge?

lets say we could win a armed revolution
is that necesarily the best way to change things??

no not at all

our forefathers created a government where the people have the power

we may have lost a lot of that power
but its only because we willingly gave it up
we gave it up thru ignorance and indifference

we gave it up when we stopped caring and when everyone was only concerned with pop and bubblegum


we could easily take back our country and we could do it without firing a single shot

we the people have the most power in the world, the power to change things with a vote, sure the vote can be rigged, but we arent that stupid, we can all tell when a votes rigged, like the way bush beat gore

and if we tried hard enough we couldve changed that

in order for a revolution to work, you need the majority of americans on your side
thats not going to happen realistically
you have a better chance of getting people to start caring about politics then you do of having them all take up arms

for before they all take up arms, they must know enough about politics to care

if they know enough about politics to care, then they will be using their vote
they will be making their voice count at the polls

we could make a difference very easily

vote out the corrupt and the fools that arent doing what we wish

and vote in the people who will do what we wish

people make it out to be hard, its not its only a vote

its a lot easier to cast a vote than to cast a bullet

but in order to do that we need to stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated and controlled by the media as significantly as we are

we need to educate, inform, and fight with intelligence, not violence

when violence is used, the only winners are the corrupt, the killers, for if youre innocent you are simply the victim


use the ballot as your weapon, keep the gun as your side arm, use it as the last resort

but if our voices are loud and strong enough there is no gun that can be stronger

Originally posted by earthman4
In the fantasy land of people overthrowing the goverment, the next goverment would be much, much more corrupt. The suffering would be much greater. Hell, you guys don't even know what you are fighting against, let alone what you are fighting for. Try to make a list. Read "A Tale of Two Cities". Decide what you are really bitching about. Angry shooting in the air does nothing.

My recommendation would be start with shooting those traitors who hold dual citizenship with both the US and Israel. Like the head of Homeland Security for example. Doesn't that just make your pro-america skin crawl?? I can't help but wonder which he considers his 'homeland'.

reply to post by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Hmmm... today they have thermal imaging, UAVs, robots... cameras everywhere, high altitude blimps, microwave guns and the biggest enemy of a rebellion... the Obama lovers. It wouldn't be a revolution, it would be a civil war.

IMO in the end we would probably win but the death rate of the resistance would be freaking high. But it would be crazy... Just imagine in each big city in america, put a team of 10 special ops and they can turn the whole city to panic.

And if the people really rebels, the government won't just stand there, they will release a virus or do some kind of false-flag terrorist attack and blame it on the resistance... let's say they blow up New York and kill 500,000 citizens and blame it on the militias... IMO a lot of troops will believe it and they'll even ask for NATO troops and mercenaries and yes they will fight the white terrorists as they brand us in Homeland Security documents.

But as times passes, the people will wake up and fight for the resistance side. If the government wants to win this future war, they'll have to win it fast or else they'll lose.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Vitchilo]
Geez this forum is very confusing for posting quotes and editing. I can't get the dang thing to allow me to post once I have editted! Grrrrr!

Anyway, what will make any virus they release be any more dangerous than the ones they have been releasing already but which totally fizzled??

I gave you a star for that. Very well thought out, and elucidated. Of course,you realize I couldn't let is pass without a response, right?

No animosity intended.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

I don't fear revolt, revolt is natural. I do fear for the lives of others while this "revolt" is undertaken. There is no common alliance, no common enemy, and no clear common objective. It's just a bunch of angry people pissed off for a multitude of reasons, backed by a diverse range of ideology and agendas, and any sort of just "mob rule" will be grounds for chaos, dischord, destruction.

Simply because you don't want to see the battle lines that are already drawn, doesn't mean they aren't there. Agreed, there will most likely be chaos, discord, and destruction, and yes, mob rule, particularly in the beginning. The seeds are already sewn for that, and have been for 30 years or more, as you stated. The purpose of militia types will be to gain control of that. It takes the police around 20 minutes to get to my house. A lot can happen in 20 minutes. Been there, done that, and that wasn't during massive unrest. I believe the massive unrest will stretch them out a bit. Do I just tell the mobs to hold off, the cavalry will be here in 20 minutes?

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

I do not want my family embroiled in such a state. In fact, I would thrive, but my family, even your family would be sitting ducks. Ultra-vulnerable, not only to the unruly people with unknown intentions, but also to the government that thinks everybody is the enemy.

I don't want my family embroiled in such a state either. I believe I've said repeatedly that I don't WANT to see this happen. However, I'm old enough to know precisely how my 'wants' figure into such a scenario. They don't. I, and my family WILL NOT survive the first 30 days of chaos. I've said that before too. Not what I want, but factual nonetheless. I am the only thing that stands between them and the chaos, and once I'm dead, they won't be far behind. It's an unfortunate consequence of the corner I've allowed myself to be painted into.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

I'm not here defending the government, as some of the policies in the last 30 years have been truly disgusting, especially in regards to taxation and Bush' and Obama's bailouts. I have a lot to say about them as a concerned citizen, do I drive that point home through someone with a bullet? If so, who? Why? And can you justify the murder of somebody because you're "angry." No, you can't.

See? There IS a common foe. You see it, but don't want to RECOGNIZE it. The same things you see, as a concerned citizen, is going to cause a lot of other concerned citizens to wind up as buzzard bait in the streets. Funny thing is, those who promote such reckless follies, and their ever-strident, spiral-eyed supporters, aren't listening to concerned citizens NOW, before it's too late. That's why I believe it to be inevitable.

True enough, you can't murder anyone simply out of anger. Well, you can, and a lot WILL, but it still ain't right. I've never 'murdered' anyone, and I never will.

'Murder is defined legally as 'unjustifiable homicide', the taking of human life without cause. Anyone I have to drop the hammer on will have it coming to them. Unambiguously.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

It seems as if everybody here, with the exception of Dooper and a few others even have any idea as to how to coordinate this effort, but what about the majority of "sky is falling and somebody is following me" who are armed and are in a state of angry disarray? Could you imagine the threat they would pose to anybody, especially a well intended revolution.

I can more than imagine the threat. Dooper and a few others, several of whom we haven't even heard from, will most likely be the ones to bring order out of the chaos. The government can't. I won't. Even if I somehow managed to live through it (I don't see that happening), my days of leading ANYTHING are over. Even if I were so inclined, there simply isn't anything here to coordinate. I am completely surrounded with the makings of the angry mobs, not those who would resist the mobs. And I've got no way out. I will end my days as one of the buzzard bait corpses, no family even close enough to retrieve and dispose of the remains. I feel the growing tension much more acutely than many, and I wish it weren't so. But it is.

Consider, though, that the threat these angry mobs pose to all, including a 'well intended revolution', may well be their own undoing.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

This topic is deeper than, "We're pissed and have guns." That's called mania! The same type of mania that happened in Russia and Cambodia. The same mania that elected the most brutal men that imposed their will through guns and aggression upon 20 million Russians and 3 million Cambodians. Those stemmed from a "people's revolution." A long with those revolutions delivered an iron will of one man's ideology who subjected millions to death and torture.

True enough. That's why restoration of the Constitution will be imperative in the aftermath.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

You're not making a change, I doubt anybody here is, especially if they're talking about the use of physical violence to achieve a desired outcome. The "desired" outcome seems to be as ambiguous as the actions they want to take to attain them.

I don't want 'change'. We've already got that. I want 'restoration'. I think the 'desired outcome', as well as the actions, are pretty clear. I just won't be there to see the end of it, whichever way it goes.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by sciencenewby
everyone wake up and realize that the government is made up of our friends and families, the military is made up of our friends and our families, and the united states population is made up of our friends and our families....

which side will you take?

if no one can come up with a response to this question... but still continues talking about starting a revolution, needs to be banned for being of very low intelligence.

on the other hand if you can actually tell me why a revolution is a good idea WHILE still answering the above question and not sounding like a complete idiot, then we have an argument.

Destruction of brass by the DOD is a "smoking gun" perhaps?

www.theshootist.net...

Got that? From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD--actually from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition.

Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap.

Georgia Arms, who brought this to our attention, is the 5th largest ammunition manufacturer of centerfire pistol and rifle ammunition in the U.S.

"We're right up there behind Hornady," Larry Haynie told me.

He also told me with the cancellation of his contract to purchase this brass, and the ending of his ability to purchase any more expended military ammunition, he will have to severely curtail his operation--laying off approximately half his 60-person work force.

Haynie further pointed out this move is a stupendous waste of taxpayer money--reducing the worth of the brass some 80%--from casings, to shredded bulk brass.

He stated most of this will now go to foundries where it will be melted down, cast in shippable forms, and likely be sold to China, one of the largest purchasers of U.S. metals on the open market.

Haynie was manufacturing over 1 million rounds of .223 ammunition every month, which he sold on the civilian market to resellers, and to law enforcement agencies across the country.

He will start tomorrow sending cancellations of orders for .223 to law enforcement agencies all over the country.

You can expect this to affect every bullet you purchase in the future--with no reloaded ammunition available, the already strained new manufacturers will be unable to meet demand. They are already turning out everything they can build for the military market. The civilian market is stressed to the point even reloading components have become hard to find.

I am not a fan of Armed Revolution simply because it is like that moment before a bar fight where everyone's drinking and happy and then when the fight begins, the damage to the idiot drunks is usually negligible but the damage to the well being of the establishment (the bar) is affected. When the bar fight starts, the scene becomes bleak for everyone.

But I do not like them turning off the spigot of ammo in some sneaky plan to disarm Americans.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by sciencenewby

Originally posted by sciencenewby
everyone wake up and realize that the government is made up of our friends and families, the military is made up of our friends and our families, and the united states population is made up of our friends and our families....

which side will you take?

if no one can come up with a response to this question... but still continues talking about starting a revolution, needs to be banned for being of very low intelligence.

on the other hand if you can actually tell me why a revolution is a good idea WHILE still answering the above question and not sounding like a complete idiot, then we have an argument.

I would guess that the friends and family would be on the side of friends and family. As for starting a revolution all I've read is reactionary to the question of What IF.

reply to post by sciencenewby


Who is not our brother and friend. Defense of ones selves and family will always be a priority. Is there not incest, spouse abuse, and even murder among us all? Why then should this be any different.

When one stands up for an ideology that is larger than the family unit, invariably conflict will arise. This is such an idea. It is larger than friends and family, it is for the betterment of all those that are to follow. What we sacrifice is small compared to what is gained for those that are to come.

How can we sit back and say " friends and family" when their very life is on the line if we do nothing? Look at what you said and see the selfishness there. Is not the loss of friends and even family worthy of a goal to achieve the level of peace and prosperity that we once had. It is the same choice our Founding Fathers made, and one they made gladly. We owe them the same.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
reply to post by sciencenewby

 

Who is not our brother and friend. Defense of ones selves and family will always be a priority. Is there not incest, spouse abuse, and even murder among us all? Why then should this be any different.

When one stands up for an ideology that is larger than the family unit, invariably conflict will arise. This is such an idea. It is larger than friends and family, it is for the betterment of all those that are to follow. What we sacrifice is small compared to what is gained for those that are to come.

How can we sit back and say " friends and family" when their very life is on the line if we do nothing? Look at what you said and see the selfishness there. Is not the loss of friends and even family worthy of a goal to achieve the level of peace and prosperity that we once had. It is the same choice our Founding Fathers made, and one they made gladly. We owe them the same.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I love how you would sacrafice friends and family for "what we once had"

because if I remember history correctly... we once had slavery... we once had women who couldnt vote or speak their mind... we couldnt discuss things like this or we would be considered traitors instantly and be killed..

we have more freedom now than ever before.

now im not saying things couldnt be better... our government is still out of control and overstepping its bounds.... they are making mistakes... and our rights are getting stomped on a bit....

but lets also remember that most of the country has healthcare... most of us have jobs... and most of us can eat a decent meal and live in a decent home every day and night of our lives..

we can enjoy the hobbies we like and we can pick and choose what we wish to learn and read about.

we have freedom of religion. even witchcraft is accepted.

i dont think we are at an extreme where a revolution is required

no one is being slaughtered.... no one is a slave... our free speech is tainted a bit.... our news sources are bought off to only show certain things... but in the end.. we all go home to our families and dont live in fear.


things can be better... and should be better... but revolution is not the answer in this case. THIS IS THE INFORMATION AGE!! USE YOUR BRAIN TO DEFEAT YOUR ENEMIES!


but sadly enough your all going to just argue with me instead of take action. your gunna sit behind your computer and make posts about how pissed off you are and then grab something to eat and watch the tube..

You can talk all day about how to fix things.... even put it on T.V. or youtube... or put it in the press... but without action, without a movement, nothing will change.


but go ahead... keep discussing the idea of a revolution and how it needs to be done!!! get all hyped up about it! because the massive bloodshed will fix everything wont it? maybe some things... but there are much less violent ways

run for local mayor in your town or get someone with good ideals to do it if you arent the politcal type... it all starts at that bottom... most governors started as mayors and so on..

become law enforcement.. local sheriffs and chiefs have a lot of say of what goes down in these towns.

your voice and opinions can be heard if you want them too. To beat the system you need to become the system... the system is made up of people.

Please read my post. I never said "what we once had" I said an ideology. i do however subscribe to those original tenants of the founders. That is that all men are created equal. That freedom comes from God and not government. That all may pursue life as they wish.

you said that have no more slavery. Are we not now enslaved? We must have a job. We must have a number to have said job. We must have licenses, permits, permissions, etc. Is this not a form of slavery?

As to being able to discuss revolution openly. We have always had that right, but until now not had the reason to use it.

You say we have more freedom than ever? Can you give an example? I can give you many that have been restricted.

1. We can no longer assemble in protest freely without a permit.
2. We cannot say what we choose. Hate speech is a violation.
3. We can worship as we choose, so long as we don't mind being labeled a terrorist.
4. We cannot publish as we choose. See 2nd example
5.We no longer have the right to protect ourselves in some areas with firearms, or in some instances to even posess them.
6. We are no secure in our property. Search and seizure laws have been wiped out thanks to the patriot act.
7. Posse Comitatus has been removed.
8. We no longer have the right to legal counsel, a quick trial, or facing our accusers.
9. We ar no longer innocent until proven guilty. Try this with the IRS.
10. States rights are superseded by federal law.
Shall we continue? Or do you get my Point.

Have we not always had healthcare? But now you must have your Dr. approved by your HMO. As well as any test. Ever try homeopathic remedies? They are now illegal and fall under the FDA. Want a procedure that is experimental? You must leave the country and pay out of your own pocket. By the way didn"t we once have to pay for this out of pocket anyway? Oh that was before government regulation, frivolous lawsuits, and insurance regs.

Sure you can have a job. As long as you are registered and have a number.
But remember, you must pay into a bankrupt tax called social security, federal taxes that go to a private bank to pay for a loan you never signed for. Work for someone that is unregulated. If you choose to work for yourself it is even worse.

I for one would like to have on occasion more than a decent meal. I have found that my dollar buys less and less. I now also, thanks to government regs, have a problem if I like to grow my own food. Heaven forbid if it is not approved.

as to a home, if you still have a job, you may still have one, however you will find that it may be worth less than you paid for it.

Oh yes you can be a Pagan today. I actually once was. But try to be a fundamental Christian and see where tat gets you.

Yes we may have more things than we once did, but that is not freedom that is slavery. Slavery to your job and slavery to your government. Only now it is called entitlements.

I and many here would rather be free and have to work hard. I would rather not depend on my government for anything. What will you do if we get nationalized healthcare, and you are no longer a viable member of society? I bet you wont get that new pacemaker. The quality of life has only gone downhill in the last forty years, while wild consumerism and government dependence has gone up. What ever happened to the nuclear family? One parent worked while the other took care of the family? The family that went to neighbors to play cards on Friday nights. Little League that had no fights. Being able to walk alone in an urban community unmolested. Not being scared of the Police and being able to fly the Flag without apology.

If This is the freedom you want you can have it. But I don't and neither do many here on this post. Take your marxist fantasies and go elsewhere. They are neither wanted nor approved of here. However you are free to believe what you wish. And the funny thing is many here would die to make sure you retained that right. Could we say the same for you?

Oh one more thing.What makes you so sure that some here have never or do not now hold office?

respectfully

reluctantpawn


[edit on 15-5-2009 by reluctantpawn]

all of your points are out of context and are manipulated to feed your purpose.


name one point in history where people are not afraid of the police...

name one point in history where the city streets were safe to walk at night?

i could say this about every one of your comments. you dream of a past fantasy.... not reality.

we are human. we have flaws. if we destory government and live off the land as you so choose. then rape and murder and thievery will rise and your so called freedom will be a worse experience than ever before.

we rely on the police and the government for stability, without it we are nothing more than cavemen.

now again... we do need a better government.... this is true. but to say we are slaves?

I think you should go live in vietnam where you are allowed to live off the land.... and see where that gets you.

I am sad you think of america so lowly. to call us slaves. slaves cant leave... you can get on the next boat out of here if you so choose.

and if its so bad here then why are people risking their lives to cross our borders?

oh right.... to become slaves..

There are many points in history where the people where not afraid of the police. In my own hometown I both liked and respected the police. I didn't have to worry about getting beaten because I broke the neighbors window. As to someplace safe to walk at night. Although I have never been there I would willing walk down any street any time in the city of Kennesaw GA.

Now why don't you reply more to the spirit of my post than trying to pick and choose what you think you can argue with? I welcome good ideolgical debate. But foolish chasing of specifics is useless. This thread was created to discuss these ideologies but to discuss whether the people could endure and or survive a revolt versus the military. We would gladly discuss this with you if you could provide insight into it.

respectfully

reluctantpawn