The Dali Lama---A Marxist?

Well this was very intersting afternoon for me.

I woke up and decided I needed my daily fill of propaganda, so ofcourse I tuned in to CNN. The program that was was Zacharia, something GPS. Anyway, he had the Dali Lama on as a guest speaking about what needs to happen in China in regards to tibetan rights, and party systems.

Now the interesting part, is when asked what should happen, he told very clearly that he was a total Socialist, a Marxist my design and that's simply what he was.

However, he stated that he was the voice of the people and his views were not to be used as a platform for what tibetans want.

He also said the next reincarnation of him would need to take place in the free world, meaning the west for all of you playing the home game.

What do you think of this, it's a interesting notion that the person we see as being the holy dali lama, a very enlightened and spiritual man, is also a Marxist.

Any thoughts?

~Keeper

Dali lama is not perfect too. And somehow i think that anyone can have the luxury of being mistaken.
"From each according to ability, to each according to need" can never work in human society. Who knows what i need? Maybe 11 houses, 12 luxury cars and 5 huge swimming pools alone would satisfy my daily needs? And all i can produce is flood massages on ATS. Economy would not be able to support me.
So government would have to determine what i need. Like air, and maybe water/bread/pants. While those who do important task of determining what other people needs would certainly need houses, luxury cars and swimming pools, i am afraid.
And government would have to determine my abilities too, naturally. For example i might be capable of working in uranium mines.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by CityIndian]

reply to post by CityIndian


Although I see and understand your point.

Socialism seems like a great thing on paper, however, when used in the real world, it simply falls apart.

The reason behind this is mostly related to people's greed and their views that people should have more based on type of work and many other things.

~Keeper

You're leaving out the part where he specified that it wasn't including the authoritarian aspect. There isn't really a name for it that I'm aware of. But, if that political spectrum questionaire means anything at all, then like me, he's economic left and social libertarian. In fact, I score about the same place as he.

We can dub it "lamaism".

reply to post by EnlightenUp


That's correct, I did not add that into my OP.

That makes all the difference really in a socialist kind of system, if you remove the totalitarian point.

Me myself I am a Libertarian, through and through. I have my own ideas on how things should be run, but they are flawed as all ideas are.

I'm still waiting for "real" democracy.

~Keeper

Total socialism is in many ways a libertarian form of society. I am in total agreement with him. China and the soviet union are in no way representative to what he is speaking about.

Such a hard topic to discuss though. The only way it is possible is to have an absolutely amazing education program. But whether this can be considered indoctrination is up for debate. I also believe that it has to be done throughout the entire world at the same time otherwise the materialism in other societies can break the whole system down. I'm a 'La Taballa Rassa' (blank slate, I know I just butchered that one haha) supporter so I guess that's why I believe in it.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


I agree with what you are saying in this (albeit that if all you can produce is flood massages on ATS i dont believe you would need pants since you wouldnt need to go anywhere to do this ) However given the fact that it does seem to work in china, and for a short time in Russia. Perhaps the Dali lama is correct in his view of the way the world should be.

Look at it from his perspective, if everyone had the same stuff would we need to worry what the guy next door has in his apartment? No cause we would have the same stuff. If food was given equally and we were not starving, would we need to take it from others to feed ourselves. No, so in his eyes this would bring about a peace of the world, and provide the benifit of people not having to work 3 jobs to get ahead and support thier families. We could have time off after work instead of rushing home to change for our next jobs. We could pursue a more benificial life and get ahead with our free time, not having to worry about the bills of the house and the 11 cars.

What i am saying is, even though this is sometimes viewed badly, it is only when the government controls all aspects of our lives that it becomes bad, such as in the way of China holds its grip on its people. However if America was to take all the houses and land and cars and distribute them to everybody, then keep out of thier civilians lives, would it not be a far better America. When everyone is no longer poor or without jobs or starving? you wake up in your own home, go to work in your own car, work the job that best suits you, eat a free lunch provided by said job, come home to your beautiful (wife/ husband/ lover/ cat/ dog/ goldfish), play with your 2.5 kids, eat dinner that night with your family, watch TV or do some studying to make your life better. Wash and repeat the process the next day, Weekends Oh look you do what you want. Each year your offered 3 weeks vacation (more if your working at the job longer) then you can afford to go places cause It doesnt cost you 1000$ for one person to go to europe.

Personally the Idea is sound. It could work, however implementing it would take to much violence and bloodshed and would never be completed the right way. people would fight to keep thier 6 houses that they live in for 2 months a year, Also nevermind that you need trusted individuals in the planing commitee, or else they just might (like you say) have 2 houses for themselves.

Saying this I think Hewas saying that his next reincarnation comming from the west was a stab at China. They will just claim as they have that the next Reincarnation was born to them and that they have the true Dali and try to riegn in more control. By saying what he said he has iliminated the possibility of China declaring they have the next Dali. Stoping them from taking more control.

All this is of course my speculation on the matter and you may take or leave it (or make fun of it or myself)

thank you


[edit on 10-5-2009 by anubis9311]

[edit on 10-5-2009 by anubis9311]

Hi again, can someone please explain how to give a star?
I looked everywhere for it however i cant seem to see it, It cant be this hard since the falg was super simple, so much so that a 2 month old could have done it.

thanks for all your help

[edit on 10-5-2009 by anubis9311]

IMO both Marxism and religion both seem to be great things, on paper as already said. human nature leads people to abuse both. I too am a Marxist at heart but humanity isn't all as enlightened as the Dali Lama and therefore needs to be looked over like spoiled young child

The Dali Lama---A Marxist?

Marxism doesn't not approve of the religion racket,
they only approve of their own racket.
I think Communism went the same way.

The Dali Lama is the head of a religion and got
kicked out of his country by people doing their own
racket that left no room for him.
Other things and power scarcity most likely the cause.

Here in America there are lots of rackets and power to
go around.

I saw this interview and somehow actually agreed with him (dahli lama). I think the proper role of government is making sure people are clothed, sheltered, have food and medical care. Outside that they shouldn't be in the business of restricting anything unless fraud is involved to deprive people of those basic needs.

If you look at our current system...all (4) of these sectors are breaking down. It's not because of lack of regulations, it's because of too many regulations, and nobody monitoring the regulations that exist. If I wanted to get some chickens and breed them so I could sell there eggs and meat I would have to jump through all kinds of hoops to make that a reality. Doesn't that go against the whole foundation of freedom? I can't even feed myself without paying the government.

So yeah I agree with the above poster that a limited socialist society is next to a libertarian society. A lot of Libertarian's would dispute this, but they are closer to anarchy than limited government.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by ExPostFacto]

reply to post by DJones



Socialism is authoritarian, which is completely opposite to libertarianism

The dalai lama is a hypocrite. I read in one of his books that everyone must be a vegetarian, and then he adds that he eats meat because of health reasons. He expects everyone else to be a vegetarian even though he knows there are serious health repercussions that he himself will not endure.

He also says that he might reincarnate as some sort of technological transhuman.

The guy is a devil, a cannot believe anyone would be so stupid as to be fooled by his air of holiness. Marx was a satanist and an utter failure, nothing good has come of him.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I would sooner take advice from a muppet.

Since when being a Marxist is a "bad thing"?..

.. Americans' minds are so messed up and brainwashed , the whole red-scare, cold war anti-communism propaganda really messed you all up eh?

[edit on 18-11-2009 by Polynomial C]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I thought he had said previously that this was his last incarnation? Did he change his mind? I guess all he has to do is reach nirvana and he'll go from being a bodhisathva to a buddha.

If you understand Buddhist philosophy and thought, then there are some aspects of Marxism as it stands, the ideology about taking care of all of the people that do agree with the belief system as it stands. However, most in China would prefer if he was not so vocal about Tibet or remain quiet instead of being on the world stage. His Holiness has stated time and time again, he is just a man and a simple monk.
As far as China producing the next Dali Lamma, well good luck as they would have to have a child that could pass the number of tests to prove the child was the reincarnation of the Dali Lamma.

Socialism seems like a great thing on paper, however, when used in the real world, it simply falls apart.

Almost my entire life I've heard people say that. Then in my mid to late thirties I studied Marx and what I discovered was that socialism doesn't even look good on paper.

The Communist Manifesto exalts thievery, thuggery, and tyranny as the only means to attain a socialist state.

What looks good about that?

Over one hundred million people were murdered during the 20th Century for the travesty of communism.

What looks good about that?

The Dalai Lama has never lived in the real world. He's been exiled from his homeland for nearly his entire life.

Why would anyone care what he thinks about anything?

[edit on 2009/11/23 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Now the interesting part, is when asked what should happen, he told very clearly that he was a total Socialist, a Marxist my design and that's simply what he was.

However, he stated that he was the voice of the people and his views were not to be used as a platform for what tibetans want.

He also said the next reincarnation of him would need to take place in the free world, meaning the west for all of you playing the home game.

What do you think of this, it's a interesting notion that the person we see as being the holy dali lama, a very enlightened and spiritual man, is also a Marxist.

Any thoughts?

okay to begin, the lama though a figure of great spiritual significance is after all a human, in this case his name is Tenzin Gyatso.

In regards to his philosophies I would say despite the claim you cite that he is essentially socialist / marxist, he is in fact a Tibetan Buddhist. I think it would be difficult to argue that he was either socialist or marxist over Buddhist as he was raised up from a small child to the spiritual and political leader of the Tibetan Buddhist people.

That said I think the likely intent of his statement, which I can not be 100% sure of with out at least hearing it, would be that he was trying to translate elements of his philosophical beliefs into terms that the western mind could readily comprehend.

I think that both socialist and marxist philosophy can reflect elements of Buddhism in many ways, not completely, but well enough in some regards. Especially socialism.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Then in my mid to late thirties I studied Marx and what I discovered was that socialism doesn't even look good on paper.

Grady, there are elements of socialism in marxism but they are different theories derived from different sources.

Karl Marx and Max Weber tend to be viewed as the main roots of Marxism

while in comparison

Pierre Leroux, Friedrich Engels, and Robert Owen are some of the figures regarded as roots of socialism.

So if you want to say:

I studied Marx and what I discovered was...

don't finish with:

that socialism doesn't even look good on paper...

finish with:

that Marxism doesn't even look good on paper...


My apologies for the digression. . .


[edit on 24-11-2009 by Animal]