Who are Progressives?

reply to post by jeffsmathers


Your exactly right; the operative term for both parties is "Statist". We have to understand that both parties are nothing more then 'big government' proponents; just a choice between 'faster' and 'fastest'.

[edit on 5/8/2009 by SGTChas]

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by jeffsmathers

 

Your exactly right; the operative term for both parties is "Statist". We have to understand that both parties are nothing more then 'big government' proponents; just a choice between 'faster' and 'fastest'.

[edit on 5/8/2009 by SGTChas]

Perhaps the old adage 'power corrupts' is absolutely right. Progressives, socialists, communists, and just plain liberals have time and time again rode waves of popular support to power only to sell out the ideals they used to get there.

I believe institutions which exert coercive authority are detrimental to the well being of mankind. That goes for the corporate model as well as the state.

reply to post by milesp


The difference being that Progressives and Socialist prey on that very human fault of wanting to not work too hard because the state will take care of you and will not let you fail. The only difference between Communist and Socialist is that “Communist have guns”.

reply to post by SGTChas


Ain't that truth! I thank god that my father never went so easy on me and taught me the importance of hard work. You definitely get a clearer view of how things really work when you have to get your hands dirty instead of the idiotic ideals some people have when all they do is sit on their bums, watch TV and eat junk food.

While this is a bit off topic, yet still related to your post, I want to share this video. It's one of my favorite scenes from the movie Rocky Balboa because it really hits the point and doesn't try to be too subtle.

reply to post by Question


Good Video clip. Yes hard work and the whole concept of 'duty' is no longer something valued by the vast majority of our youth. It would seem that the Progressives (or statist) that wish to enslave us have better work ethics then most who they herd or confront; sad but true.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by milesp

 

The difference being that Progressives and Socialist prey on that very human fault of wanting to not work too hard because the state will take care of you and will not let you fail. The only difference between Communist and Socialist is that “Communist have guns”.

I would argue that progressives and socialists simply attach a higher value to labor because they realize that it is the foundation on which capitalists and the state build their empires.

Stateist socialism certainly does prey upon that human desire to have more control and democracy in their daily lives, most of which is spent in their places of work. That desire is not a fault, as you say, but simply the natural desire of men (and women) to be free from coercion and toil. Of course this has been exploited by those who simply wish to dominate others in their quest for power, glory, or whatever other quixotic quest they might be on.

On the other hand Capitalists prey on that same human desire to be free of coercion by promising people who 'work harder' the opportunity to become wealthy and able to do the sorts of things that they would never be able to do if they were poor. The sad reality of this system is that 'hard work' is not necessarily 'rewarded' unless the work is for one's self above all others.

I consider myself to be an Anarchist because the only way for individuals to reach their full potential and live healthy and satisfying lives is through the realization that mutual aid, democratic control of capital, and ,above all else, a fundamental respect for the right of all people to pursue happiness.


[edit on 10-5-2009 by milesp]

I respectfully disagree; STATIST or PROGRESSIVE Capitalism is the predatory evil entity that Progressives and Socialist use as their ‘fall guy” to gain power. By example notice that most of the Democratic Parties funding came from the leaders of big businesses led by democratic operatives; the very same businesses that received TARP funds had given huge amounts of money to the DNC. Progressives for decades have been planting like-minded individuals in MBA programs around the country.

There has not been true capitalism in America since the Wall Street money changers and the big banks of the Federal Reserve got involved; certainly since the Commerce clause was perverted to allow governmental regulation of all aspects of business in the USA by the Progressives Roosevelt packed the courts and government with.

Originally posted by SGTChas
I respectfully disagree; STATIST or PROGRESSIVE Capitalism is the predatory evil entity that Progressives and Socialist use as their ‘fall guy” to gain power. By example notice that most of the Democratic Parties funding came from the leaders of big businesses led by democratic operatives; the very same businesses that received TARP funds had given huge amounts of money to the DNC. Progressives for decades have been planting like-minded individuals in MBA programs around the country.

There has not been true capitalism in America since the Wall Street money changers and the big banks of the Federal Reserve got involved; certainly since the Commerce clause was perverted to allow governmental regulation of all aspects of business in the USA by the Progressives Roosevelt packed the courts and government with.

First of all, I'm not entirely sure what you're respectfully disagreeing with me about, but I'm not disputing the fact that Progressives or Socialists (I'm assuming you're referring to the DNC when you use these terms) are beholden to their corporate backers just like their RNC counterparts.

As for 'true capitalism', I don't think there has ever been such a thing in America or anywhere else in the world for that matter. Furthermore, I don't think the creation of an unbridled capitalist economy was ever the intent of the framers of our constitution.

reply to post by milesp


Not unbridled, but a compassionate capitalism built on Christian morals of service and an honest wage and profit; my definition of 'true capitalism'. Forgive the misunderstanding please, but ‘true capitalist’ do not build empires on the backs of their laborers as “Their wages cry out to Me…” Not to offend with the scriptural quote, but it is the same verse used by President John Adams while addressing a Methodist fellowship in Boston on being a Christian while conducting business, as well as on Sundays.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by milesp

 

Not unbridled, but a compassionate capitalism built on Christian morals of service and an honest wage and profit; my definition of 'true capitalism'. Forgive the misunderstanding please, but ‘true capitalist’ do not build empires on the backs of their laborers as “Their wages cry out to Me…” Not to offend with the scriptural quote, but it is the same verse used by President John Adams while addressing a Methodist fellowship in Boston on being a Christian while conducting business, as well as on Sundays.

I like the idea, but the current system is not exactly conducive to compassionate capitalism. Certainly there are companies that work within a model of corporate responsibility, but that extends only to the point that it increases or at least doesn't cut into it's profit margin.

Although I'm not a Christian, I believe that the basic tenants of the religion are good for society. Compassion, humility, charity, and of course sacrifice are values that distinguish good people from those whose actions display arrogance, greed, and a disregard for others.

Here's my question: What traits are rewarded more in a capitalist economic system?

reply to post by milesp


In our current Darwinist capitalistic system, he who can climb over the dead bodies fastest while cheating the most people and maintaining the best publicity department and most successful lobbyist. It is the merging of ‘survival of the fittest’ with capitalism and the removing of Christian business ethics that has destroyed our system.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by milesp

 

In our current Darwinist capitalistic system, he who can climb over the dead bodies fastest while cheating the most people and maintaining the best publicity department and most successful lobbyist. It is the merging of ‘survival of the fittest’ with capitalism and the removing of Christian business ethics that has destroyed our system.

Sorry sarge but It's my turn to respectfully disagree. It seems to me, and most economists would agree, that competition is the means by which the capitalist economy moves itself along.

It's hard for the capitalist to be competitive when he's concerned with such quaint ideals as compassion and charity.

reply to post by SGTChas


Excuse me. . . . not to break up this happy hate-fest, but. . . .

Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were Republicans.

The eugenics movement was advocated by people at all of points of the political spectrum. It was a dark period in American history. But it cannot be associated with either party in particular. Both parties had its advocates.

It certainly is not advocated by Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the current progressive movement. Or by many in the conservative movement either. Eugenics is a dead issue and has been for a long time. To argue that anyone is guilty by association is also to set up a straw man argument.

Every side in American politics calls the other sides fascist. It's become a meaningless term. This practice, in argument theory, is called reductio ad Hitlerum. For example, Hitler liked dogs; therefore anybody who likes dogs is a fascist.

But please, don't let me stop your venom. Like-minded people will be drawn to this thread and those who disagree will avoid it, just as I should have.

Oh...and not to put too fine a point on it, but T. Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were at the turn of the 20th century, not the 19th. And FDR was about mid-twentieth-century.

reply to post by Sestias


The ‘we know what is best for you’ outlook is the very basis of eugenics and the underlying principle of statist progressives. The very reason for pushing an ‘anything goes’ abortion policy that was first exposed by the leaders of the eugenics movement, and now being carried out by ‘Progressives’. Further, it is the manipulation of the behavior of the ‘unwashed masses’ through tax policy and command economics – or fascism – that our current brand of progressives is using quiet openly. Because, of course, the statist elite (progressives) know what is best for you and that is always bigger government.

As for compassionate conservatism, I am sure atheistic economist have all kinds of reasoned studies on the motivation for capitalism, however the capitalism of America’s early agrarian economy was largely motivated by the Christian direction to help others and to be a blessing in all you do; something that all the Harvard, Yale and other such institutions of social reengineering and their atheistic economist proselytes will never understand.


[edit on 5/11/2009 by SGTChas]