What ATS is...

Over the past few months I've seen a growing change. Members have been outspoken in what they think ATS is and what it should be. Clarifying, or contradicting, what others perceived has resulted into a culture of negativity and mistrust.

Yours truly has been here for a while, a long time, I've seen the atmosphere change on countless occasions and I've seen many people come and go. But, what never changed is what this site is about.

We are not freedom fighters, we are not revolutionaries, we are not defenders nor machineries for any cause/movement. We are abovetopsecret.com, denying ignorance. We are non-partisan, secular and free to hold any thought, regardless what the status quo and majority believe.

It is execrable to witness the vicious tongue occurring on certain subjects. The me orientation, "I'm right, your wrong", is a regular event. But, truth be told, ATS does not represent your view or mine. It is a community based on all our beliefs, we are the community - not I.

A house divide cannot last. We work best when we, abovetopsecret.com, work together.

ignorance

–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

deny

–verb (used with object), -nied, -ny⋅ing.
to state that (something declared or believed to be true) is not true: to deny an accusation.

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Originally posted by infinite
It is a community based on all our beliefs, we are the community - not I.

Except when it comes to discussing illicit drug use, then you are no longer a community. Just saying. You can't claim to be free and open and then have rules restricting certain topics regardless of the justifications behind it.

A house divide cannot last. We work best when we, abovetopsecret.com, work together.

ATS serves two masters. The advertisers and the community which provides the content. You cannot please one and satisfy the other all the time.

I for one dont really think its anything to do with ATS as you tend to get an attitude of im right, youre wrong on a lot of message boards.

Obviously people are going to be more outspoken on a message board as oppose to face to face converstaion because there is obviously a certain level of anoniminity taht the web offers.

As for what ATS (the collective) stands for... Its all about divided opinions, disagreement and debate and you have to admit its great fun thrashing them out.

It also benefits the owners of ATS to have disagreements, remember they are a business at the end of the day and they need to keep people returning/posting. Im sure that wouldnt happen if everyone just got along together, lol...

Anyway thats my tupence worth, lol

have a good day all and remember... im right and youre wrong.. ok...lol

chroot

[edit on 7/5/2009 by chroot]

Are you trying to tell everyone what ATS is? Or are you offering people a chance to share what they think ATS is? A bit strange. I think it is a place where we can let the endless possibilities of our collective consciousness meld together in an intriguing yet unexplored possibility. All the while taking a break from the mundane. I find it very refreshing.

I think the point I was making has been missed.

Go to the 9/11 section or participate in any topic about the Middle East - you'll understand the the premise of this thread. It is about members who believe that ATS represents their view and nothing else. It seems that some are no longer willing to work together to find the truth, but believe they already possess the truth and will not accept anything else.

jackflap came pretty close to defining what I was referring to. Collective consciousness.

Read any official thread by SkepticOverlord, he is regularly accused of "selling out" or "denying the truth" just for being critical. Is this now the future of ATS? You are either with us or against mentality? I hope not.

reply to post by ben91069


Drug use discussion is not allowed (as far as I know, but I am not a staff member) for many reasons, the main one being how seriously do you think the outside world would take this site if everyone were talking about drugs and abuse?

If we want any of these important topics to get mainstream attention we must be professional.

Also, I believe a narcotics forum was opened briefly but members abused it, so there is the other main problem.



[edit on 5/7/2009 by jkrog08]

I think that what infinite is trying to say, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, is that ATS is US.

We - the membership are ATS - a collective whole which, when focused, can achieve great things.

However, sometimes collectives fragment and lose sight of the bigger picture - which in the case of ATS is to deny ignorance in whichever shape that ignorance takes.

Together we are intellectually strong, more than the sum of our parts, and cannot be led down a road which we believe to be false or misleading.

We stand together and we fall apart.

I believe that infinite is asking us all to remember why we are here. We are not here to have petty arguments. We are not here to ram our views down others' throats. We are not here to preach, convert or recruit.

We are here do deny ignorance.

"Simples" - to quote a very clever and cool merekat.

Peace,

MGGG

edited for grammar

[edit on 7-5-2009 by machinegun_go_go]

reply to post by machinegun_go_go


Thank you for understanding and seeing the point I was making.

You elegantly defined the message of this thread.

reply to post by infinite


I think that you did that in the OP.

I was merely reinforcing your point because I am in complete agreement with you.

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by infinite



Good post Infinite.

We definitely make ATS what it is and we are a community....a diverse and wonderful community who could achieve great things and help each other a lot if we work together.


Peace my friend

reply to post by ben91069 if AST were to allow threads on illicet drug use it would not only cheapen this site given time (1 day), it would cause so much chaos and discord among members fighting over should it be legalised or not. it would eventually take presidence over every topic.

reply to post by infinite


I simply dont understand.

What differences have you noticed since 2003?

The way I see conspiracy theorists is they come to gather information on a personal level and try to arrange pieces of the puzzle that seem to fit. When they reach a personal conclusion is this bad?

Have some formed a superiority complex over others claiming they have all the facts? I dont find many facts in a theory.

Was ATS more peaceful back then?

I understand some can keep a nuetral tone, others are very opinionated on religion, or other more personal beliefs.

I was hoping you could explain it in more laymens terms, other than deny ignorance. Can you give me any examples, besides skeptic overload.

Have you noticed this change in behavior more so after the 2008 economic crisis?

Sorry for the 101 questions. I love ATS but wonder what it was like before.

Originally posted by wonderworld
I love ATS but wonder what it was like before.

Imagine you're in a room, with all of your best friends.

Next, imagine in that room one of your friends calls everyone over quickly and professes that he or she just received a phone call from someone representing themselves as a Government Agent, and that the building and room that you are all in are being watched.

Now, imagine how you would all work as a team, all caring about each others future and all the hows, whys, and trying to pinpoint all of the variables necessary to find out why this is happening to all of you...how close you all become in your quest to find the answer and finally bring this thing to closure. There are 10 of you there, 1 of your closest friends gets riled up easily and gets out of hand, but the others have a reassuring way of calming him or her down and keeping him or her focused on the task at hand.



That's what it was like very early on.



AB1

reply to post by infinite


I understand your point, but I'd like to add something slightly different to the discussion for consideration.

Because of the size, nature and diversity of this website, it's nearly impossible to make meaningful assertions about its "tone" or "culture".

I too have been around for some time, and like you, felt similar things about the experiences I was having on this website.

But I've also come to a completely different realization. ATS is what you CHOOSE to make of it.

If you consider the number of daily posts made on this site, do any of us (mods and administrators included) really read enough of them to make sound conclusions about things like ATS' "tone" or "culture"? I think it entirely possible to be here eight hours a day and never encounter more than a hand-full of examples of the issues you mention. In the same regard, depending upon your specific topical interests, it's possible to repeatedly encounter such examples.

Frankly, it's the reason I have generally ignored the recent threads started by SO concerning similar issues.

I don't really think there are systemic solutions, beyond the initial framework of the site to address these culture questions.

In the end, "ignorance" has to be addressed one post at a time.





[edit on 7-5-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by ben91069

 

Drug use discussion is not allowed (as far as I know, but I am not a staff member) for many reasons, the main one being how seriously do you think the outside world would take this site if everyone were talking about drugs and abuse?

So you see that ATS is embracing ignorance by doing what is more popular. You proved my point.

If we want any of these important topics to get mainstream attention we must be professional.

The more mainstream ATS becomes the more it will cater to what is popular in the public and to consumer targeted advertisers - not unpopular or controversial ideas.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by wonderworld
I love ATS but wonder what it was like before.

Imagine you're in a room, with all of your best friends.

Next, imagine in that room one of your friends calls everyone over quickly and professes that he or she just received a phone call from someone representing themselves as a Government Agent, and that the building and room that you are all in are being watched.

Now, imagine how you would all work as a team, all caring about each others future and all the hows, whys, and trying to pinpoint all of the variables necessary to find out why this is happening to all of you...how close you all become in your quest to find the answer and finally bring this thing to closure. There are 10 of you there, 1 of your closest friends gets riled up easily and gets out of hand, but the others have a reassuring way of calming him or her down and keeping him or her focused on the task at hand.



That's what it was like very early on.



AB1

Thank you, I'm new and have made a few friends. I've seen 2 of them get attcked and I have stepped in to clear things up.

Have those "Off Post" signs been more frequent over the years. I'm always curious what the poster said if it wasnt named manners or language. I suspect they were perhaps insults?

You kind of make it sound like a club of friends. I like that idea but also wonder what past opinions of new members was. I guess it takes time to earn respect.

I dont quite know how to ask this but is it like you've lived in a familiar neighborhood for years then people begin to move out and new one moved in changing the entire area? People making new rules and setting the tone? Then to find one neighbor is constantly calls the pound on your dog. Sorry trying to think of a comparable example.

Being a member of the community the past history of ATS is interesting. Ive happened to read another similar post and didnt quite grasp it. I guess it must be related to negativity? I have nothing to compare it to.

You make mention of an agent watching in the room. That would be horrible but Ive seen this happen. One guy abruptly quit talking to me and ended with “Got to go fed on thread” I wondered why everyone signed off.

The words are still written they can be viewed while not being logged on. So why do they get scared? It doesn’t make sense I guess??

I figure if an agent wanted me he would easily get my IP address, personal name and address through other means.

Should we be worried about agents? The only problem I can think of is if a person was an arms or drug dealer.

Has ATS always had conflicting Patriotic talk going on. I have contributed to this and wonder if there is really such a thing as a red list. Is there?

As you can see Ive had a lot of questions but never found an appropriate place to ask them.

I still think I'm missing the picture about calming the one guy down. Are there now too many on here that are impossible to calm down?

I want to know what ATS is about, if it's other than I think? I hope the OP will "Please" give a small list of "This is what ATS is, (was)"

I'm just a traditional person and like to keep things as they were, yet I still dont know.

Thank you, and sorry again for the 101 questions.

To the government/CIA et al, ATS is a source of information about what people in general and persons as individuals are thinking (and plotting?)

To the site owners, ATS is a never ending creation/ amusement/ frustration/ toy/ vehicle for expressing their secret desire to control the world and influence opinion - oh and a tool to make money.



To the users/members it is many diverse things - most of which have been more or less adequately described - some good and worthwhile, while for some merely (or satisfactorily) an outlet of anxiety, paranoia, fear, hate, and on and on.

What ATS is, is entirely in the eye of the beholder. To me ATS has continued to get a bit more boring as time goes by for its predictability, prostheletizing and axe grinding. It seems I really have to search to find the interesting and novel tidbits.

ATS membership is, and has been, and will continue to be a cross section of global society. We have members from virtually every corner of the world, with opinions that run the spectrum politically, and sociologically. We've got nuts, we've got not so nuts, skeptics, and true believers, and opinions to match every one of them.

According to an ATS poll a couple of years ago, we're on average a well educated bunch, as well as opinionated. It's to be expected that there will upon occaision, be fireworks... Personally? I wouldn't have it any other way.

ATS when I joined was so much smaller, I liked it then, now I've grown to love it. The owners gave me a singular honor when I was invited to join the staff, because I guess my love, as trite as that sounds, came through. I get very vocal in my defense of ATS upon occaision . But the ATS of today is far and away superior to even the one I joined almost 4 years ago now. I'd like to think we've all had a little somethin' somethin' to do with that.

ATS is a large and sometimes unruly family.

What is ATS??

ATS is a lot of things.

Throughout much of 2008 and early 2009 it seems to have been a right-wing propaganda site disguised as a conspiracy site, with every other topic bashing Barack Obama over one thing or another. We've had everything from constant re-postings of assertions he's not fit to serve due to "complications" with his birth certificate to wild accusations that he's basically Satan in Karl Marx's clothes, while also a secret Muslim and possibly also a lizard from Alpha Centauri. Even now there's threads about how much of a "Socialist" he is, largely started by and supported by people who have no real idea what "Socialism" actually is or how it relates to and can be distinguished from Communism, Liberalism, Libertarianism etc. and folks who seemingly are just reacting to whatever viral anti-Obama email is circulating this week regarding some phantom piece of legislation he's supposedly pushing to strip us of "freedoms" his predecessor already effectively took away (of course few ever seem to research anything they receive in these emails; if they did they'd find Obama has nothing to do with much of these pieces or it's already a dead issue that has no chance of getting past committee).

It's also a place where supporters of Religion X, Y or Z, or non-religion Q can fight it out over which God would win in a fight, and who's more likely to make it to a happy afterlife by killing/oppressing/displacing their rivals.

It's a place for people who obviously failed to grasp grade-school science can come to assert their 12th-Century viewpoints about how the world works and how we came to be (through a dozen-odd Evo v. Creation threads).

As with any other media source, it's a place where the users can and do ignore any evidence that doesn't fit their tight little world-view, continually asserting their disbelief in an evidence- and fact-based reality.

It's a place where excited YouTubers can come to post the "coolest UFO video EVAR" and then see their hope that their "proof" will be accepted come crashing down when confronted by people who have become jaded by 60-plus years of hoaxes and false alarms, and knowledge that technology has advanced to a point where a 10-year-old with Final Cut can make a fake UFO video that looks so good it might have been considered among the best footage ever created--in the 1950s, '60s or '70s.

It's a place where the ownership is caught between a rock and a hard place in wanting to promote free and open discussion, but finds themselves in the unhappy position of being the "Bad Guy Censor" when it comes to certain topics out of their desire for commercial viability in a bigger society that, frankly, hasn't shown a whole lot of maturity or resilience when it comes to the free and open discussion of hot-button topics.

It's a place for closet racists to come and make "logical" arguments for why they hate Group A, B or C without actually coming right out and identifying themselves as racists.

For me, especially, it's an illustration; an eye-opener. I think every single person who identifies themselves as Liberal, Progressive, etc. (and even Moderates who haven't been exposed to the craziness) should come to this site, so they can see for themselves the face of the Extreme Right and the inconsistent, destructive policies that movement stands for; and see why the mentalities many here represent need to be defeated if our society is to progress and mature to a point where we can truly face the challenges of our future. It's also a demonstration of why Liberals, while advocating some common-sense gun control measures, should themselves take advantage of their 2nd Amendment rights to bear arms lest they find themselves in the crosshairs of these right-wing crazies in any upcoming civil conflict.