Losing My Faith

Originally posted by skept!cal
i dont know what to think anymore....just growing more and more frustrated w/ the topic...you know what im saying?

Sure. And nobody's forcing you to keep up a steady interest in it. I generally get interested for a while, get bored with it, take a few years off, pick it up again, and so on. I've been doing that for over 40 years now.

Look at it this way. If something really earthshaking happens, if suddenly the answer to it all appears out a clear blue sky, you'll hear about it on CNN or some other news channel. You won't miss out.

Otherwise, as much as the abundance of evidence may point to a real phenomenon of some kind, the actual nature of the subject might just turn out to be something we can never really figure out. It might be beyond our ability to comprehend. There's a point at which it makes sense to stop beating your head against the wall -- and all the morons with their claims to knowing "The Truth!"

It's just a hobby. Like stamp collecting. Nothing to get too worked up about one way or another.

haha i know exactly what you mean, i do believe there are some amazing things out their and almost anything is possible but alas people are too willing to believe and repeat anything for it to be a sensible search - some guy with a book to read or half a braincell comes up with some certain proof and everyone jumps on it no matter how nonsense it is, the second i come up with a rational response to something I'm a disinfoagent or a lizard hearted one or something...

It does kinda get you down hu, i had to accept long ago that most these people aren't looking for truth they're looking for a dream, a fantasy or something - some world in which they are the hero. It seems the more you learn about things in this field the more you can cross off your list as nonsense, the more you understand about how and why the stories get spread the more hopeless humanity looks. It's sad because i know that weird things happen, crazy almost impossible things happen all the time -sometimes we get to hear about them, these are the things we should focus on -not some nonsense mumblings about reincarnated aliens from atlantis or whatever the silly story of the day is.

Really what i'm saying is sure go ahead and wipe most of the nonsense off the table, however governments do lie - nature does weird things - aliens might even visit one day... Don't think just because the storys they're trying to sell you aren't true that the world is a dull place, now you know some more things you don't believe maybe it can help you focus your search onto amazing things that are worth believing... hehe i suggest quantum mechanics, social science or geopolitics

you are looking in the wrong place....

The answer is not in the sky its inside of you.

YOU are the reason for aliens.. can you not understand that?

you can be skeptical i am myself but i understand WHAT I AM..

I am a function of the universe and in order for one to be here you need the other

that is basic logic 101 .. its not hard.. you don't need a degree or a phd

I would suggest you go the park on a hot sunny day relax and think how amazing it is your even sat thinking what you are.

Then you will understand why aliens are real.

YOU are the reason sir NOT the aliens

It happened to me not a long time ago. The more I study cases, the less I'm convinced about them. However a few cases stand out and are hard to dismiss. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I'm very skeptical of most claims presented here, but even if 99.999% of cases are bunk I don't rule all of them out, just because they are extraordinary. Some skeptics claim that it is not possible to be neutral about subjects like aliens & ufos. I don't agree with them. I have no moral qualms about debunking frauds and exposing hoaxes, but I will never claim that all abductees / contactees / experiencers are nuts. Concluding to the inexistence of phenomena that are not proven is a logical fallacy.
en.wikipedia.org...

Truth is my goal. Nothing would please me more than definitive answers to the many questions in this forum. ATS made me rethink my position about many subjects, and I'm thankful to the posters.

[edit on 2009-5-6 by nablator]

reply to post by skept!cal


Perhaps you are looking too hard for the absolute proof we all want and yet is distorted and buried beneath a lot of BS. People like you, and me, WANT to see absolute proof, yet this not possible at the moment, so in the meantime all we can do is research the available data and make up our own free thinking mind to what this data tells us. Its NOT all BS, you just have to feel your way around the information presented to you and make up your own mind.

There IS truth out there, my gut feeling makes me believe we are not alone, I am just waiting for this to be *cough* officially confirmed.

Between you and me, there are still recorded events and eye witness reports that cannot be glossed over as swamp gas!. Be sceptical yes, but dont be blinded to the truths.

Originally posted by Freelancer

Between you and me, there are still recorded events and eye witness reports that cannot be glossed over as swamp gas!. Be sceptical yes, but dont be blinded to the truths.

How are these things truth, if they are not verifiable? Do you just believe they are the truth, because of your gut instinct? Instinct is not fact, it is not proven, nor is it evidence.

I guess some people have differing opinions as to what the truth is. What is true for you might not be true for another person.

A healthy dose of being skeptical does not hurt anything that you might consider to be true. If it is true, it should become apparent due to skeptascism being able to not prove it otherwise.

edit because I am quote challenged


[edit on 6-5-2009 by Blanca Rose]

reply to post by Blanca Rose


Your points are of course valid, without proof there is no positive and acceptable 'truth' that will suffice the scrutiny of sceptics. May I ask what, in your eyes constitutes as 'proof'?

reply to post by Freelancer


Proof would be an alien spacecraft put on display, and either a real live alien or a dead one. Any of those 3 things.

Is there any other kind of proof or evidence people will believe?

reply to post by Blanca Rose


We could not prove a spacecraft was "alien" without an occupant/pilot?

Proof would be the live alien, even a dead one would be suspect.

reply to post by nerbot


Why yes, how correct you are! With all the stories of UFO's and or people thinking they are not of this world, a live pilot of something not of this world would be needed.

I'd still like to see a dead alien body though. Just the fact it would be here, and not of this world would mean it had to come from somewhere else!

edit typo

edit again for more

Ah yes, but then we have the alien soul in a human body crappola going on...........I need to invest in a higher pair of waders, don't I?

[edit on 6-5-2009 by Blanca Rose]

[edit on 6-5-2009 by Blanca Rose]

reply to post by Blanca Rose


So, if the Russian Goverment, via one of its many official agencies were to announce they had an alien body, taken from one of their 'many' reported crash sites and were now going to put this body on public show you would be more inclined to beleive in the UFO 'truths'?

The point I am making here is this.. Most 'Goverments' of the world have at one time or another, been accused of outright lying or, mis-directing its people, hence the rise of many conspiracies to be found here at ATS.

What goverment would you beleive would tell the truth? your own?.

You are losing faith because faith is all you have. It sucks. I can't imagine what that is like, so I can say I understand, but I really don't because I have seen with my own eyes. If I could transfer that to you, and all others who need their proof I would, we live in a time were proof is only in first hand knowledge because our technology has surpassed our ability to prove something that can not be fabricated. I wish I could help. I hope you see for yourself soon.

reply to post by Freelancer


I don't believe many things, unless I can see it, taste it, feel it, or hear it for myself.

It wouldn't matter what government provided anything. I'd still have to experience it for myself, so, no, if Russia pronounced they had some sort of evidence, either they would have to send it on a world wide tour, or I'd have to go to Russia, and see if for myself to believe it.

Originally posted by Blanca Rose
reply to post by Freelancer

 

I don't believe many things, unless I can see it, taste it, feel it, or hear it for myself.

It wouldn't matter what government provided anything. I'd still have to experience it for myself, so, no, if Russia pronounced they had some sort of evidence, either they would have to send it on a world wide tour, or I'd have to go to Russia, and see if for myself to believe it.

Based on the above I am tempted to ask if you believe in 'God'... But as this would clearly be off-topic I wont ask.

This is'nt a one liner.

Aliens exist, we are no alone in the universe. I will never accept that we are, never.

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina 42
Aliens exist, we are no alone in the universe. I will never accept that we are, never.

Sounds like there's a struggle going on in there!

Without proof you can only cling to wishes and beliefs.

Maybe you should accept that there may be a chance there "could" be aliens out there rather than a defiant (but ignorant (unless you're not telling us something)) "they exist"......but you could also accept that we could be completely alone or that we may never have "contact".

Saying "aliens exist" doesn't make them magically appear does it?

Right now it's just us...all alone on our spinning ball of dirt hurtling through an endless void for no apparent reason other than to enjoy the ride.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Originally posted by Blanca Rose

I'd still like to see a dead alien body though. Just the fact it would be here, and not of this world would mean it had to come from somewhere else!

How would you know 100% that it WAS from somewhere else and not of this world unless you could do an autopsy and tests yourself. I hardly think they'd let ME loose with a scalpel. And being told "because we say so" would just be suspect.

Naaaaaa, "it" would have to be alive (and would probably be kicking) to convince many of the more logical and conspiritorial minded among us. Even then, I'd want a handshake to get a feel for something other than a disguised special effect.

Ultimate proof for an ultimate truth....nothing less.

I've never seen a black hole, but I believe they exist.

Originally posted by sniggitydiggity
I've never seen a black hole, but I believe they exist.

That's nice!

Can I assume you were making an analogy between Aliens and Black holes, neither of which you have seen but both you believe in?

Black holes are real and have been detected by scientists and astronomers. The proof was found in distorted light around them from stars.

Despite its invisible interior, a black hole can reveal its presence through interaction with other matter. A black hole can be inferred by tracking the movement of a group of stars that orbit a region in space which looks empty. Alternatively, one can see gas falling into a relatively small black hole, from a companion star. This gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperature and emitting large amounts of radiation that can be detected from earthbound and earth-orbiting telescopes. Such observations have resulted in the general scientific consensus that, barring a breakdown in our understanding of nature, black holes do exist in our universe.

Wikipedia-Black Holes

Aliens still have to be proven. You may believe they exist, but right now, it's only a possibility and not a fact.

reply to post by sticky

Science is not king either, it is just accepted by the community of experts in that particular field.

Your understanding of science and the scientific method is fundamentally flawed in a major way.

The Scientific Method



Here's a good "Made Easy" video by Potholer54. It was intended for creationists, but works equally well for pseudoscience. Notice how much emphasis is placed on ways to attempt to reduce or remove bias. I would love to see a detailed methodology for the process of discovery that is consistent across all conspiracy researchers. If not, that's fine. A few of the major ones would do fine.

The Scientific Method isn't perfect, but thus far it is the best we've got - so if there's a methodology out there which is better or can help refine the scientific method, then by all means they should be introduced into the scientific literature for review and proposal.

Until such a time, however, I will remain dubious as to their veracity, and I doubt any such time will ever come - because science works. It produces technology. Pseudoscience, however, doesn't work - and has only ever served to produce false hopes, fraudsters, and crystal-healing New-Age mystic hippies.

And don't get me wrong, hippies have a great culture. I just wouldn't trust them with the future of cancer research.

On to point 2, you're wrong about this. I assume this comes about from the contention over AGW or something a creationists spouted. You may not fully realize just specialized individual fields of science are - or the vast amounts of knowledge we've acquired through the years which would be practically impossible for any one person to master and retain - so while scientists are rather well educated in a wide variety of subjects, and on the forefronts of knowledge in their chosen and closely related fields - it's not impossible for them to hold misconceptions and misunderstandings of things outside of their field.

This is why we don't have physicists peer-review Medical research... and we shouldn't have Kenneth Miller or Robert Ballard doing peer review on a paper concerning the results of experimentation at a high energy particle collider.

And for that matter, Stephen Hawking would be a BAD fill-in for Robert Ballard unless they attached a lot of water wings and flotation devices to his wheelchair.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by Lasheic]