Various considerations about Sitchin and your threads

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by mmiichael

 

yup lens flare, always has to be something wrong with the camera when something extraordinary happens.

didn't hear that it was debunked tho, i will have to look into it.

Just one of those days. Sorry if it looks like I'm trying to burst your bubble.

I learned from going down a lot of cul-de-sacs when I was younger. Part of the process.

I emailed a friend into this stuff and he sent me to a link on this forum where there's some good input


www.davidicke.com...


Ironically on a forum of David Icke - aka Mr Reptilian himself.


Mike



[edit on 17-5-2009 by mmiichael]

Anyone has a solution, other than sitchin's, that explains all these points?

- presence of sumerian, elamitic, and phoenician writings in the mesoamerica
- presence of the same archological patterns in various places aroud the world (montevecchia, giza and teotihuacan reproduce the Orion Belt - Girsu and Stonehenge 1 hav the same pattern)
- presence of even the same 'errors' (like defined by the archolgists): in sumer, mesoamerica and egypt we have statues that show the gods with 2 left hands
- presence of the same genomic marker (y-cromosome) in various populations proving that our common 'adam' was living in center-eastern africa circa 60.000 years ago (spencer wells found this marker in both the japaneese ainu and the andeans)
- presence of the same genomic marker (mtDNA) proving the 'common eve' dated about 150.000 years ago
- presence of the 'serpent' figure in many cultures
- presence of the same themes in many cultures myths, like the deluge, wars against gods, giants etc
- the same detail of the deluge being a flood coming from the south, in both mesopotamic and Tahiti myths

any idea?

Originally posted by ningishzidda74
Anyone has a solution, other than sitchin's, that explains all these points?

- presence of sumerian, elamitic, and phoenician writings in the mesoamerica
- presence of the same archological patterns in various places aroud the world (montevecchia, giza and teotihuacan reproduce the Orion Belt - Girsu and Stonehenge 1 hav the same pattern)
- presence of even the same 'errors' (like defined by the archolgists): in sumer, mesoamerica and egypt we have statues that show the gods with 2 left hands
- presence of the same genomic marker (y-cromosome) in various populations proving that our common 'adam' was living in center-eastern africa circa 60.000 years ago (spencer wells found this marker in both the japaneese ainu and the andeans)
- presence of the same genomic marker (mtDNA) proving the 'common eve' dated about 150.000 years ago
- presence of the 'serpent' figure in many cultures
- presence of the same themes in many cultures myths, like the deluge, wars against gods, giants etc
- the same detail of the deluge being a flood coming from the south, in both mesopotamic and Tahiti myths

These are all dot connecting used in amateur commercial fantasy lit.

Floods and flood myths practically everywhere. A basic occurrence and trauma for all primitive cultures.

Ditto serpents, gods, giants. Some borrowed and shared, most just the explanations people would come up with. Lightning = lightning God, etc.

If you bring up "common eve' and 'common adam' you don't understand what they are. Their parents and grandparents looked exactly like them.

Read some real books by people who research these subjects not the hack fantasists trying to make a buck off the gullible.


Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by ningishzidda74
Anyone has a solution, other than sitchin's, that explains all these points?

- presence of sumerian, elamitic, and phoenician writings in the mesoamerica
- presence of the same archological patterns in various places aroud the world (montevecchia, giza and teotihuacan reproduce the Orion Belt - Girsu and Stonehenge 1 hav the same pattern)
- presence of even the same 'errors' (like defined by the archolgists): in sumer, mesoamerica and egypt we have statues that show the gods with 2 left hands
- presence of the same genomic marker (y-cromosome) in various populations proving that our common 'adam' was living in center-eastern africa circa 60.000 years ago (spencer wells found this marker in both the japaneese ainu and the andeans)
- presence of the same genomic marker (mtDNA) proving the 'common eve' dated about 150.000 years ago
- presence of the 'serpent' figure in many cultures
- presence of the same themes in many cultures myths, like the deluge, wars against gods, giants etc
- the same detail of the deluge being a flood coming from the south, in both mesopotamic and Tahiti myths

These are all dot connecting used in amateur commercial fantasy lit.

Floods and flood myths practically everywhere. A basic occurrence and trauma for all primitive cultures.

Ditto serpents, gods, giants. Some borrowed and shared, most just the explanations people would come up with. Lightning = lightning God, etc.

If you bring up "common eve' and 'common adam' you don't understand what they are. Their parents and grandparents looked exactly like them.

Read some real books by people who research these subjects not the hack fantasists trying to make a buck off the gullible.


Mike

traumas coming from what? a trauma that makes different civilization use the same details? yeah as if...

serpent and giants borrowed and shared... for what?
everything is coincidence?

common eve and common adam... nope... sorry to tell you that the information comes directly from Well's books and Sykes' books, as well as Cavalli Sforza's books and National Geographic dvds.


Again, any solution (that doesn't state is all coincidence or trauma please)?.

Originally posted by ningishzidda74

traumas coming from what? a trauma that makes different civilization use the same details? yeah as if...

serpent and giants borrowed and shared... for what?
everything is coincidence?

common eve and common adam... nope... sorry to tell you that the information comes directly from Well's books and Sykes' books, as well as Cavalli Sforza's books and National Geographic dvds.


Again, any solution (that doesn't state is all coincidence or trauma please)?.




As I don't want to sound rude, let's just say picking up a phrase or concept and supplying a credible sources can fall short of understanding fully what they mean.

Common Adam and Eve do not mean a starting point of one individual for all humanty. That would be impossible to determine with millions of years of gradual evolution. What is referred to is the concept of Mitochondrial Eve - the Most Recent Common Ancestor of all humans via the mitochondrial DNA pathway.

The flood, the giants, the Gods.

Many people who have studied anthropology all their lives have come to the same conclusion. All primitive communities experienced births, deaths, hostile climates, dangerous animals, enemies, etc. They responded by generating similar explanations for what they do not comprehend.

We see this happening even today in isolated societies and the stories generated by contact with modern people.

A superficial cherry-picking of similar mythologies can give the impression there was a singular historical source for these stories that all humanity shared in the past.

And this is an interpretation the paperback scholars try to convince you of.

A deeper reading of the evolution of these mythologies and how they were transmitted through contact demonstrates this to be a false conclusion that has no evidence to support it, and much disproving it.

If you are determined to understand these things porperly, no website or video will give you anything more than bits of data, small pieces of the puzzle.

Information can be assembled to prove almost anything by people trying to sell you something. Be wary of false gods and false men


Mike

reply to post by Kandinsky

What pyramids in Bosnia, Italy, Japan and Cuba? 10 000BC? The earliest pyramid (after mastabas) is the Djoser step pyramid that has been dated to around 2700BC.

Hi Kandinsky,
what about the ancient relics that are scattered upon the floors of the oceans?
One particular location that comes to mind is Yonaguni, Japan.


Pyramid or not?

The only scholar involved, a Dr. Kimura, now states this rock sank around 2,000 years ago. There must be a thousand threads here at ATS about this entirely natural stone formation.

No evidence of any man-made construction has ever been found there.

The structure itself looks exactly like the geomorphology on the nearby island of Yonaguni Jima.
See for your self:
Link to photos.


Harte

reply to post by KRISKALI777
Like Harte says, there isn't a pyramid there. You can check all over the internet and find no sources that support the idea....other than Kimura's Morien Institute.

Even Robert Schoch went diving down there and concluded natural formation. I usually post a pdf magazine for divers at this point, but can't find it right now. It contains accounts by Schoch and other divers that explain why and how it's a geological (natural) formation.

You should know that several of the members that challenge these claims once believed them. By checking the sources and reading more, they began to see through the 'lost civilizations and advanced tech' BS that fringe authors make their living off. I'm just a well-read enthusiast, but some members are professionals with real subject knowledge.

Edit for Kimura not Kagura...

[edit on 18-5-2009 by Kandinsky]

To the guys in this thread

Finally, provide me a link to someone who said Neptune would be blue before Sitchin did... otherwise you are just craps.

It would seem N is a crackpot. Not point talking to him. You guys have a nice time.

Originally posted by ningishzidda74


Finally, provide me a link to someone who said Neptune would be blue before Sitchin did... otherwise you are just craps.

The Junior Encyclopedia I used in grade school showed Neptune as blue.

Mercury was red, Venus pink, Mars red, Jupiter orange, Saturn yellow. They tried to show the planets further away as colder so used purple, blue, grey for Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.

You might want to contact these people about their astounding predictive breakthrough.

Mike



[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by Kandinsky

Even Robert Schoch went diving down there and concluded natural formation.

Its fantastic that formations such as perfectly symetrical staircases can come from natural formation. Not to mention other examples of the sculpted remains at Yonaguni.
Anyway, besides Yonaguni, there are other submerged relics that must be considered; such as: Submerged ruins in >60m depth of the southern coast of Sri Lanka, the submerged ruins within the black sea, of Turkey.
Not knocking Mr Schoch; but even great scholars have been known to be wrong at times.

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Its fantastic that formations such as perfectly symetrical staircases can come from natural formation. Not to mention other examples of the sculpted remains at Yonaguni.
Anyway, besides Yonaguni, there are other submerged relics that must be considered; such as: Submerged ruins in >60m depth of the southern coast of Sri Lanka, the submerged ruins within the black sea, of Turkey.
Not knocking Mr Schoch; but even great scholars have been known to be wrong at times.

I wouldn't refer to Schoch as a "great scholar," although he does hold a doctorate in Geophysics, he has no standing whatsoever in the field of archaeology.

I also wouldn't make claims about sunken ruins anywhere on Earth without providing some evidence that they actually exist.

Since you do not, my response must be that these "sunken ruins" aren't there at all for us to "consider."

Harte

reply to post by KRISKALI777
I referred to Schoch because his 'fringe' reputation wouldn't be met with the blanket denial that other names might.

The Black Sea ruins are mesolithic sites from around 5000bc. Not advanced or even pyramid in design...scattered remains of basic habitations. No evidence of spaceports.

Presenting random selections of real and imaginary ruins across the world isn't adding much to Sitchin's or the OP's account. Still no Planet X, no spaceports, no advanced tech, no traces of the giant aliens/annunaki, no bones etc.

I used to believe in all this guff and was mildly disappointed to find that it was untrue (p**sed off at the writers too). The good thing is that the sense of mystery is equal to those stories when reading latest findings in archaeology or reading up on Beringia etc. Read around chert/ flint handtools and differences between geofacts and artifacts. Look into the evidence for pre-Clovis or N European trade routes. I didn't know much about them until reading links in this section. They're more interesting than Sitchin's fantasies...

Check out this thread...Ancient Crimes and Sacrifice...It could've been better written, more facts, more sources and whatnot (the author is an eejit). The point is that there's enough intrigue, mystery and 'Wow! factor' in history without needing to add aliens and levitating blocks of stone

Originally posted by Kandinsky

there's enough intrigue, mystery and 'Wow! factor' in history without needing to add aliens and levitating blocks of stone

I agree and I think we've seen an evolution of something that has little to do with archeology, ancient history, and anthropology. It's an outgrowth of UFO sub-culture.

Like the unidentified objects in the sky, it's a vast playing field with a lot of unanswered questions. Ripe for wild speculation and uninformed dot connecting.

Big enough now and with enough sci-fi elements to bring out pseudo-experts who can carve a comfortable living generating any disinformation that their audiences want to hear.

A veritable cul-de-sac of knowledge and reason.

Disturbing in that the von Danikens and Sitchins are better known and better rewarded for their ignorance than the people who research seriously and toil anonymously trying to increase the understanding of our world and it's earlier cultures.


Mike



[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
Disturbing in that the von Danikens and Sitchins are better known and better rewarded for their ignorance than the people who research seriously and toil anonymously trying to increase the understanding of our world and it's earlier cultures.

Mike

Mike,

I've been saying this for years and years.

Here's to you, a fellow empathizer with the archies that do backbreaking work in remote, difficult and dangerous places for the 6 hottest (or driest) months of the year, only to have their work stolen by armchair fantasists in air-conditioned comfort, picking over the latest findings looking for the most easily misconstrued morsels to convert into support for their fraudulent "theories" which earn them up to ten times what the archaeologists bring home.

For this, they get to be blamed for a world-wide archaeological conspiracy designed to "keep the truth about the ancient world from leaking out to the common man."

I made you a friend the first time I read one of your posts.



Harte

Originally posted by Harte


Here's to you, a fellow empathizer with the archies that do backbreaking work in remote, difficult and dangerous places for the 6 hottest (or driest) months of the year, only to have their work stolen by armchair fantasists in air-conditioned comfort, picking over the latest findings looking for the most easily misconstrued morsels to convert into support for their fraudulent "theories" which earn them up to ten times what the archaeologists bring home.

For this, they get to be blamed for a world-wide archaeological conspiracy designed to "keep the truth about the ancient world from leaking out to the common man."

I made you a friend the first time I read one of your posts.

Harte

I've put you on my list too. Thanks for the thought.

I'm edgier than some on all this. Sort of zero tolerance on the whole thing.

I'm not an archeologist but have studied related areas in university and been on many digs. Also travelled to many sites mostly in South America as part of my career.

I know many dedicated people in the field. I tell them they're too soft on the lunatic fringe side of things. I've seen when a von Daniken dupe has has confronted someone who has spent their lives studying the past. I tell them they're complete idiots. They know absolutely nothing and are stupid enough to believe any sensationalistic fairy tale just because it managed to get into print. The unmitigated arrogance they display just because they've swallowed a load of BS from con-men who know how to connect a few dots and spin a sci-fi story around it.

The UFO field is totally dominated by these predatory hucksters cultivating enraptured ignoramuses hoping they're onto the the biggest story of mankind - but with nothing substantial or credible ever presented.

It resembles religious cultism far more than an interest in science or history.
Just a new type of fundamentalism that finds support in a community comprised of the equally deluded and their cynical clergy raking in the money with their propagated deception.

Good examples are Scientology with it's outer space alien race nuttiness or even the respectable Mormonism with it's prehistory of Israelites in America given to some whacko in the 1820s by an angel and a golden book. Zero evidence of any these histories.

Sadly this mass ignorance has polluted archeology and anthropology along with ancient history.

Myself, unless they're just kids, as so many are, I wouldn't give these people the time of day.


Mike


[edit on 19-5-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by Kandinsky

Presenting random selections of real and imaginary ruins across the world isn't adding much to Sitchin's or the OP's account. Still no Planet X, no spaceports, no advanced tech, no traces of the giant aliens/annunaki, no bones etc.

I disagree. And what imaginary ruins did I speak of?
Wether you want to call it Pyramid or not, the terraced stones at Yonaguni are similar to what one may find on a Ziggurat.
Have a look at Graham Hancocks' website; although i suppose he dwells on the fringe as well?


If you honestly believe all of these "formations" are natural, I'd like to see other examples that you must have.
No this doesn't relate directly to the OP, yet it was mentioned by me to make a point- although Sitchins' views may be considered "fringe", there is still a lot that is unknown, so therefore, one view has no more weight than another. Unless that is you believe every theory presented by academics?

reply to post by Harte


Originally posted by ningishzidda74:
"So Sitchins claim to fame, is apparently that "gods" from another planet, Nibiru, came to Earth 450,000 years ago, and created humans through the gentic engineering of female apes. He also claims the planet Nibiru, sits outside Pluto and orbits the sun every 3600 years. Because Nibiru sits so far out from the sun, its only source of heat comes from within, by the decay of radioactive materials. He also claims that human descendants of these "gods" killed themselves off 4000 years ago, with nuclear weapons, despite the fact that there is no evidence to sunstantiate this outrageous theory."

Your reply:
"Do the math. It's 2009 now. When's the last time we saw a rogue planet whipping through the solar system? The orbital mechanics of such an incident would leave effects still detectable thousands of years later in the orbits of the other planets, moons, asteroids, etc."

What if the planet is not a planet but a gigantic spaceship, its hollow and its mass is low enough allowing it not to affect other planets in its path? That would work wouldnt it? I remember slightly a reference to a planetsized ship that was detroyed in some battle between factions or was that the Robert Morningsky Terra Papers and not Sitchin .. lol ?

[edit on 2009/5/20 by reugen]

reply to post by Kandinsky

Presenting random selections of real and imaginary ruins across the world isn't adding much to Sitchin's or the OP's account. Still no Planet X, no spaceports, no advanced tech, no traces of the giant aliens/annunaki, no bones etc.

Submerged ruins:
Mahabalipuram & Pumpoor- between Tamil Nadu and Sri lanka,
recently discovered submerged ruins off the coast of Cuba.
Could give the links, but probably wasting my time!

Oh and finally, I think you'll enjoy this one from Nasa.

science.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Hanslune


"now alleged 'naki for 450,000 years and ZERO sites and ZERO artifacts "

The legacy is humanity and all our civilizations, artifacts and structures. The Annunaki, well, they left earth after their work here was done. Some information regarding nuclear fallout and "green glass" in some parts of what we call the cradle of humankind maybe is an indication the annunankis erased all evidence of themselfs from earth i.e they nuked it.