Connect The Dots: Kalahari, MJ-12, Area 51, and EBE-3

Good thread, star and flag from me.

I have some comments on your OP if you don't mind:

Kalahari Crash
I cannot find the documents regarding this case on the web. Do you maybe have a link? The reason I ask is because I have the documents on my harddisk at home and I would like to compare them to the (faked?) documents Kandinski spoke of.

Area 51
The picture you linked shows the Groom lake facility. Like Kidflash pointed out this is a testing site for secret aircraft so no saucers and EBEs there. This also confirms the recent stories from Groom lake employees who claim nothing alien is at the base. Both Victor (Alien Interview provider) and Lazar speak of a different facility about 20 miles south of Groom Lake called S-4. According to them this is where the saucers and EBEs are kept. This facility is allegedly built into a mountain at Papoose lake.

S4

Alien Interview
I am of the opinion that there is a good chance the footage is authentic. Unfortunately there is no way to prove this at the moment. Victor claims the EBE arrived in late 1989 and the footage is from January 1991. So this does tie in nicely with the alleged Kalahari crash. Furthermore Victor claims that the alien was shot down.. I you havent heard the Coast to Coast interview with Victor I recommend giving it a listen. I can provide a link to the C2C interview if you need it. The number 27 in the video appears to be a number in a logging system so it has no real meaning in itself.

MJ-12
These documents are highly controversial but could very well be real. Skeptics who claim they are faked because of spelling errors are not to be taken seriously in my opinion, because spelling errors point more towards authenticy then hoax I think. A hoaxer would want to get it right at all costs and not misspell words to compromise his hoax. I do feel that many MJ-12 docs are fakes in an attempt to discredit the originals. The thing that stood out for me was the presence of Donald Menzel on the list. He was a public UFO debunker and wrote multiple books to dicredit the phenomenon. Stanton Friedman found out that Menzel had been leading a double live, working for military intelligence and having a top secret ultra clearance. This was not publicly known so a hoaxer would never have put him on the list of MJ-12 members. Something to think about...

Keep up the good work.


[edit on 5/5/09 by Fastwalker81]

Completely off topic but i think everyone should take there hats off to the OP.
S/He always presents their cases well and is always open minded and well mannered.
Ive read a few if jkorgs threads and find them fascinating and well researched and even though i don't believe alot of them i applaud his civility.

Tien Uit Tien

Ten out of Ten

The thing about the Thor laser cannons... I have read Denel (Denel is the biggest Arms Manufacturer in South Africa) reports somewhere that Thor laser guidance systems are now being used for most of G-Series canons and Rooivalk attack helicopter.

Also another thing to take into consideration is that South Africa's Nuclear Program from South African Atomic Energy Association (AEK) "Atoom Energie Koorporasie" was first runner for leading nuclear and atomic development in the world before we had to shutdown.

South Africa was very far from "primitive" in any situation. Note I used the word "WAS". Some here will understand what I mean.

Another thing to add... The Mirage jets were scrambled from Valhala Airforce Base in Pretoria. I was the age of 10 and we stayed at Pierre van Ryneveld, which is basically across the street from the Air Force Base. I remember we always used to climb on the room of the house to check the Jets coming in to land

[edit on 5/5/2009 by bskivss3]

reply to post by bskivss3


So did you see anythng strange when this happened?

reply to post by Azador


Thaks for your kind words, and I am a "he" by the way,lol.

reply to post by Fastwalker81



I never mind comments by other members, that is one reason I like to put this information out here, so we all can discuss it

I do not have copies of the documents themselves, what I got was from the website I linked to in my OP. You said you have some?

Would you care to share them on the thread?

Does watching the interview give anyone else a headache? Maybe it's that stupid green light bouncing around.

reply to post by Demonis



I think that green light was a heart monitor.

Originally posted by jkrog08
I do not have copies of the documents themselves, what I got was from the website I linked to in my OP. You said you have some?

Yes I have five pages of documents regarding the Kalahari crash. There are two official looking cover pages, which include the South African Airforce crest. The other three pages are a case description, but appear to be a summary taken from the originals if there ever were any of course.

Would you care to share them on the thread?

Sure but they are on my pc at home so I cannot upload them now as I am at work. I will give it a go when I get home.

reply to post by Fastwalker81



Alright!

That would be great, thanks.

reply to post by jkrog08


You can find the documents I promised to share here:

i654.photobucket.com...
i654.photobucket.com...
i654.photobucket.com...
i654.photobucket.com...
i654.photobucket.com...

Of course these kind of things can be faked with some effort, but they are interesting none the less.

reply to post by Fastwalker81


WOW, thanks for those, they contained some more information than what I was able to get ahold of. I agree they could be faked but a lot of whats said in there on the surface looks legit and matches up to rumors of how the recovery protocol goes. I will further look into this, again THANK YOU.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by Fastwalker81

 

I never mind comments by other members, that is one reason I like to put this information out here, so we all can discuss it

I do not have copies of the documents themselves, what I got was from the website I linked to in my OP. You said you have some?

Would you care to share them on the thread?

Excellent thread,
I found this whilst surfing a cpl of days ago,


www.scribd.com...


It is the MAJESTIC 12 Special operations manual for ET Entities & Material recovery and disposal, dated 1954.
I am not claiming that it is authentic but it makes for interesting reading.
hope it helps,

PEACE,
RK.

did anyone ever get the bottom of who that blacked out guy in the video is?..(victor)....wasnt he on coast to coast and it turned out he may have been the guy with the pony tail?..

sorry..im rotten at remembering names

[edit on 22-6-2009 by alienesque]

Originally posted by alienesque
did anyone ever get the bottom of who that blacked out guy in the video is?..(victor)....wasnt he on coast to coast and it turned out he may have been the guy with the pony tail?..

I think you are referring to Robert (Bob) O. Dean. And yes there were claims that he and "Victor" are the same person.

There is a thread about the subject here

In that thread member free_spirit decoded "Victor's" voice and compared it to the voice of Bob Dean. The voices do not match at all...

video.google.com...

So I guess it's safe to say "Victor" is not Bob Dean. His real identity remains unknown to this day. Maybe he is just some actor or hoaxer but then again maybe he really is who he says he is, and actual footage of an EBE is being passed of as a puppet and ridiculed on Youtube.




[edit on 22/6/09 by Fastwalker81]

reply to post by Rigel Kent


Good stuff, there are many rumors of ET and UFO recovery teams. "STARR", "EBE-RT"(pronounced 'Eee-Bert', "ETECH-RT"(pronounced 'Eee-Tek-Are-Tee') and others. Here is a recent thread discussing the last two...www.abovetopsecret.com...

It has taken me a great deal of contemplation and courage to join this group and say what I am about to tell you.

I hope by what I tell you that you will at last let my husband rest in peace.

I am from Germany and I am the wife of James Van Greunen.

We have 2 wonderfull children that are 22 and 20 years old.

My Husband was a Colonel in the RSA Military Intelligence.

He felt it was his duty to inform the world of the event that you call the Kalahari Incident.

My husband trusted the wrong people with this information.

These people made money out of the documents supplied by my husband, eg Michael Hesemann.

It was Mr Hesemann from Munich who destroyed me and my childrens life by systematically discrediting my husband and the truth that he stood for.

My husband commited suicide in 1993 due to pressure from Intelligence services eg. CIA, NSA, DIA, SASS, Michael Hesemann, Henry Azadhedel and many other self made UFO researchers and self proclaimed UFO prophets.

My husband died as a man and not a Transexual as you would like the world to believe. My husband never changed his sex!

I suggest you question the source of your information. The more crazy the story the better it sells... Isnt it?

James Van Greunen is buried in Bavaria near our town.

All I ask is that you let him rest in Peace now....

His Wife and Children

reply to post by DanaScully


Hey Dana, thanks so much for sharing. I am curious though as to what you are trying to say about the statements? Are they true? Did a UFO crash? Any elaboration would be appreciated, and I am sorry about your husband. Thanks again for sharing...

reply to post by jkrog08


What my husband had to give to the world was Real. He only offered the truth to mankind.

It was important to him that the world know about this.

In return he was crucified for bringing this information out. My husband never tried to defend himself against all the lies they spoke about him.

He believed you could not hide the Truth when it was as big as this.

If you look you will see that these so called investigators made a witch hunt against my husband and that it became a personal war against him and not so much the information he offered the world.

Makes you think does it not?

So many tried to keep him from saying anything more. The US intelligence services, The British Intelligence Services and the South African Intelligence Services are all guilty of this.

It was the German Intelligence Service that gave him and us as a family safety, but it was not enough cause in the end all the lies they spoke about him made him very depressed and he shot himself in the woods near our home.

After this I wish that everyone and the world will just let my husband have peace in his grave.

Our Family have sufferd enough!

Originally posted by DanaScully
I am from Germany and I am the wife of James Van Greunen.

...

My husband commited suicide in 1993 due to pressure from Intelligence services

...

What my husband had to give to the world was Real. He only offered the truth to mankind.

Most people that have looked into the "Kalahari incident", including me, disagree.

With all due respect, the available evidence suggests that James Van Greunen was not offering "the truth".

A brief summary of the general consensus about this case is offered on Wikipedia's page about UFO sightings in South Africa:

1989 Kalahari crash

According to supposed leaked documents an alien craft was shot down by South African aircraft, some 80 miles into Botswana, on 7 May. Two alien beings were claimed to have been captured on site. To date no primary witnesses have been traced, while the supporting documents, some obvious fakes, were all obtained from James van Greunen. Researcher Tony Dodd lent Van Greunen some credibility in Quest magazine, but other researchers were highly skeptical.[23][24][25][26]

In addition to considering various relevant articles and documents (online and offline), I have previously collated references to discussion of this incident in various UFO books - including the following (sorted in alphabetical order by book author):

• 2 page discussion by Jerome Clark in his “The UFO Encyclopedia: 1st edition: Volume 1 – UFOs in the 1980s” (1990) at pages 69-70 of the Apogee hardback edition in an entry entitled “Crashes of UFOs”.
  
  
• 2 page discussion by Jerome Clark in his “The UFO Encyclopedia: The Phenomenon from the Beginning - 2nd edition” (1998) in Volume 2:L-Z at pages 870-871 (in an entry entitled “South African Crash Hoax”) of the Omnigraphics hardback edition.
  
  
• 40 page discussion by Tony Dodd in his “Alien Investigator” (1999) at pages 33-42 and 46-75 (in Chapter 2) of the Headline paperback edition.
  
  
• 2 page discussion by Kevin Randle in his “A history of UFO crashes” (1995) at pages 211-212 (in Appendix A, “The UFO Crash Data Base”) of the Avon paperback edition.
  
  
• 11 page discussion by Kevin Randle in his “Case MJ-12” (2002) at pages 276-286 (in the Appendix generally) of the Harper Torch paperback edition.
  
  
• 4 page discussion by Jenny Randles in her “UFO Retrievals” (1995) at pages 151-154 (in Chapter 7) of the Blandford softback edition.
  
  
• 3 page discussion by Nicholas Redfern in his “A Covert Agenda” (1997) at pages 248, 250-251 (in Chapter 17) of the Simon & Schuster hardback edition.
  
  
• 2 page discussion by Nicholas Redfern in his “Cosmic Crashes” (1999) at pages 191-192 (in Chapter 9) of the Simon & Schuster hardback edition.
  
  
• 7 page discussion by Daniel M Salter in his “Life With a Cosmos Clearance” (2003) at pages 29-30, 32, 33-34, 35, 36 (in Chapter 3) of the Light Technology softcover edition.
  

After this I wish that everyone and the world will just let my husband have peace in his grave.

While I'm sure everyone on ATS is sympathetic to your personal loss of a loved one, your posts raise interesting questions.

Should everyone stop pointing out the reasons for considering someone to have been a hoaxer because he has died?

Should we take everything said by someone as the gospel truth because he has died since making the relevant claims?

Should we just ignore the entire incident, leaving the claims made by a hoaxer to stand unchallenged in various UFO publications?

Our Family have sufferd enough!

If your husband did indeed hoax this "crash", then do you not think he is responsible for various people suggesting he was a hoaxer?

If you have reasons for considering that James Van Greunen has been misjudged, I would be happy to raise specific questions about him and his claims (whether openly on the ATS forums or - if the moderators have no objection - by more private means).

Kind Regards,

Isaac


[edit on 25-2-2010 by IsaacKoi]