Israel destruction in 14 days?????

Originally posted by audas
How very unsurprising - the UN has found that Israel deliberately targeted UN buildings but OF COURSE Israel has "dismissed" the report becuase it had already conducted its own enquiries -

What a profoundly misguided sense of justice the isralies have -

www.guardian.co.uk...

So you are outraged, in your typically ironic performance of righteous indignation, because Israel dismisses a UN Report? Yet, I don't sense a similar level of outrage at Iran for refusing to conform with various UN Resolutions?

But, you do not hate the Israelis. You, sir, are a seeker of justice.

Bravo.

reply to post by audas


You are quoting a newspaper article which is using another newspaper article as its source and has given it the trademark Guardian spin. For the sake of balance here's the original, which less partial readers may find slightly more informative.

The fact that the Guardian now relies on copying and rehashing articles from the Jerusalem Post in order to push its anti-Israel agenda is telling in itself.

Here are the quotes that the Guardian conveniently left out:

"Immediately upon the conclusion of Operation Cast Lead, and unrelated to the UN investigation, Israel carried out independent inquiries into the damage caused to the UN installations," the Foreign Ministry said. "The findings of these inquiries were published two weeks ago, and proved beyond doubt that the IDF did not intentionally fire at the UN installations."

"The report completely ignores the eight years of attacks against Israel that preceded the decision to initiate the operation, and ignores the difficult circumstances on the ground as dictated by Hamas and its methods of armed operation," the Foreign Ministry said. "Surprisingly, the report lays no responsibility on the Hamas organization, which placed its installations and dispatched its men to confront the IDF in proximity to the UN installations."

edited for spelling.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by mattpryor]

The fact is that Iran probably won't attack Israel until it can back it up with a hydrogen bomb. If it does, Israel will do what it must in order to survive - as it always has.

And of course the world will hate Israel for it, and distortions and lies will fuel that hatred.

But as someone once said, better an Israel that the world hates than an Auschwitz that the world loves.

Originally posted by mattpryor

But as someone once said, better an Israel that the world hates than an Auschwitz that the world loves.

Are they not the same thing? Or are you saying that human rights abuses are acceptable when Israel are the perpetrators?

In any case, it's an illogical saying! Evil is Evil!

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


No it means that there will always be people that hate Jews. Anti-Semitism is as old as Judaism, and it spreads fast. Therefore it's better for the Jews to have a state of their own which they can defend (and the world will hate them for it whenever they do) than a repeat of the Shoah.

Originally posted by mattpryor
reply to post by audas

 

You are quoting a newspaper article which is using another newspaper article as its source and has given it the trademark Guardian spin.

...and this thread is about a little article of an unknown journalist, who reported about an interview he saw on tv and left out the important parts.

I am a little irritated, that this causes a war of the words here.

It was just a canard, and the tension in Middle East will not be better, when it swaps into forums.

Originally posted by mattpryor

No it means that there will always be people that hate Jews. Anti-Semitism is as old as Judaism, and it spreads fast.

Why is that? Is Anti-semitism is everyone else's fault? Was it something that someone else did? Could it also be argued that the Jews have forever practiced anti-everyone-else-ism? I don't know... just thought I'd put that honest question out there.

What we must remember is that anti-semitism does not just refer to Jews, though they appear to have distorted it's meaning these days to personify an anti Jew concept. To be a true anti-semite you would also have to be anti many Arab cultures as well.

I consider the words 'gentile' and 'goyim' to be racist because at their heart, they really mean "non Jew"... or "not one of us". Those words evoke a strong concept of 'us and them'. They draw lines of distinction and should be frowned upon IMHO.

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
What we must remember is that anti-semitism does not just refer to Jews, though they appear to have distorted it's meaning these days to personify an anti Jew concept. To be a true anti-semite you would also have to be anti many Arab cultures as well.

I consider the words 'gentile' and 'goyim' to be racist because at their heart, they really mean "non Jew"... or "not one of us". Those words evoke a strong concept of 'us and them'. They draw lines of distinction and should be frowned upon IMHO.

"Semite" refers to ancient people of Middle Eastern origin.

"Anti-Semite" refers to people that don't like Jews. Always has, always will.

dictionary.reference.com...

A word is only racist if it's used in a derogatory context. "Gentile" and "Goyim" are no more racist than "American" or "Catholic" unless they're used as an insult. They're just nouns.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Why is that? Is Anti-semitism is everyone else's fault? Was it something that someone else did? Could it also be argued that the Jews have forever practiced anti-everyone-else-ism? I don't know... just thought I'd put that honest question out there.

So, in other words, good thing those Nazis came along eh? Those damn Jews were just BEGGING to be exterminated.

They should learn to mind their manners.

Excellent point, IRM.

reply to post by Night Watchman


I can't understand your intent OR your radical extremism.

Simply because there may be an alternative reasoning to anti-"anything"ism, by the Israeli people and someone points that out, that the person noticing it, observing it, and bringing it up as a possibility should (almost as if by spring reaction) be labeled as condoning the Nazi terrorism of the JEWS????

I keep saying this time and time and time again, that we here are becoming far too extreme in our views to the point of divisiveness from the inside out.

From a group of peoples who should be bringing intellectual thought and ideas AND value each others thought and ideas without having to ascribe them to any "radical" ideology from a time long past.


AB1

If God has a plan for the Jews and they resemble a burden as described in the Bible to the world to test human nature or man and evil natures to test God's promise then it could not be more plain than what history has witnessed 2000 years ago or 4000 years ago or 60 years ago and even today. The same story applies through history and if 6million Jews are alive today or less then why can not 1billion Indians from India or 1billion Chinese people have the same impact of being infiltrators and conspiritors of world banks and ritches? Why does not currupt governments around the world do the same conspiracy as everyone accuses the Zionists of doing? These Jews are smart people, they have certain genes and a promise to God from the beginning, some accuse their riches as a conspiracy but I say its their blessing and man's way of being jealous.
Look at how many scientists and inventors have come from this minority group, do the maths and the ratio's it can not be coincidence.

www.jinfo.org...

At least 178 Jews and persons of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 23% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2008, and constituting 37% of all US recipients2 during the same period. In the scientific research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Medicine, and Physics, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 40%, respectively. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.25% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)

Chemistry (30 prize winners, 20% of world total, 28% of US total)
Economics (26 prize winners, 42% of world total, 56% of US total)
Literature (13 prize winners, 12% of world total, 27% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 9% of world total, 10% of US total)3

Physics (47 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)
Physiology or Medicine (53 prize winners, 28% of world total, 41% of US total)
Text

Yet we just have a habbit of killing them off like some sub species or hunting them for their furry coats once they start to prosper. I will see what this new want it now generation has changed, but I don't think it has as history will forever repeat.

Originally posted by alphabetaone


I can't understand your intent OR your radical extremism.

Simply because there may be an alternative reasoning to anti-"anything"ism, by the Israeli people and someone points that out, that the person noticing it, observing it, and bringing it up as a possibility should (almost as if by spring reaction) be labeled as condoning the Nazi terrorism of the JEWS????

I find it instructive that you find my response to be "radical extremism," but do not find the suggestion that the Jews have brought anti-semitism on themselves to be equally so.

I don't understand that line of thinking.

The poster asked whether anti-semitism is every one else's fault? Of course it is. If one has hatred for an entire race of people, it is the fault, and intellectual failing of the person harboring the hatred.

There are those who hate Muslims because of the actions of particular sects of the religion. Is that ok with you? Would you not take offense if a poster had written, "If people are anti Muslim, isn't that the fault of Muslims?" would you accept that.

I would not.

I believe we, as a world society, have an obligation to speak out when others begin to accept any attempt to paint a particular race of people as evil. Especially a race that has had to defend itself from extermination from its inception.

Do you disagree?

[edit on 5-5-2009 by Night Watchman]

Originally posted by mattpryor
The fact is that Iran probably won't attack Israel until it can back it up with a hydrogen bomb. If it does, Israel will do what it must in order to survive - as it always has.

And of course the world will hate Israel for it, and distortions and lies will fuel that hatred.

But as someone once said, better an Israel that the world hates than an Auschwitz that the world loves.

The quote is "Better one Israel the World hates than a million Auschwitz the World loves".

reply to post by Night Watchman


Well, there's a difference in my eyes on the radical extremism.

Where he was stating that it may have been the Israeli's fault for anti-semite sentiment (as a discussion open for debate, not necessarily a fact), I call YOU extremist primarily because you view that as his automatic alignment with terroristic Nazi Germany, instead of perhaps seeing it as the issue open for debate that it was.

As far as agreeing with you based upon your scenario of the Muslims being at fault for anti-Muslim sentiment. Let me say it this way, number 1: Muslim is a religion, Jewish is a religion. Saudi Arabia is a country, Israel is a country. I dont have to agree with the policies of Israel or the Policies of Saudi Arabia, to consider the habitants of their respective country to be just as much the human beings that deserve equal rights as anyone else.
Number 2: Yes I would agree that EITHER of those religious groups (or ANY religious group) can certainly be the victims of their own demise if they have a propensity for demostrating the exact actions that reign down that negative sentiment on them and do nothing to counter-act it.

However, again, stating that someone thinks all the JEWS should have been eradicated and thank God for that Adolph Hitler is on the opposite side of the equal sign simply because they don't align themselves with the policies of that nation is extremely radical and IMO offensive.


AB1

At the time Adolph Hitler took control of the German Workers Party, Rabbi Chaim Shivili made an interesting prediction to the Jews living in Europe. "The longer they delayed going to Eretz Israel, the harder it will be too leave Europe".

Originally posted by alphabetaone
reply to post by Night Watchman

 

Well, there's a difference in my eyes on the radical extremism.

Where he was stating that it may have been the Israeli's fault for anti-semite sentiment (as a discussion open for debate, not necessarily a fact), I call YOU extremist primarily because you view that as his automatic alignment with terroristic Nazi Germany, instead of perhaps seeing it as the issue open for debate that it was.

As far as agreeing with you based upon your scenario of the Muslims being at fault for anti-Muslim sentiment. Let me say it this way, number 1: Muslim is a religion, Jewish is a religion. Saudi Arabia is a country, Israel is a country. I dont have to agree with the policies of Israel or the Policies of Saudi Arabia, to consider the habitants of their respective country to be just as much the human beings that deserve equal rights as anyone else.
Number 2: Yes I would agree that EITHER of those religious groups (or ANY religious group) can certainly be the victims of their own demise if they have a propensity for demostrating the exact actions that reign down that negative sentiment on them and do nothing to counter-act it.

However, again, stating that someone thinks all the JEWS should have been eradicated and thank God for that Adolph Hitler is on the opposite side of the equal sign simply because they don't align themselves with the policies of that nation is extremely radical and IMO offensive.


AB1

The word Jews means both Descendants of Judah and Religious Faith. Judah is only one of the Tribes of Israel. The Ancient peoples referred to the Israelites as Hebrews.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by PGTWEED]

Originally posted by alphabetaone
[

However, again, stating that someone thinks all the JEWS should have been eradicated and thank God for that Adolph Hitler is on the opposite side of the equal sign simply because they don't align themselves with the policies of that nation is extremely radical and IMO offensive.


AB1

Upon further contemplation on your comments, I agree that my "Nazi," comment was inappropriate and I apologize for it. And you are correct that posing the question is significantly different than advocating the position.

I have seen so much hatred towards Israel (and, in some cases, all Jews), that I fear I over reacted in this case.

I think everyone has got off-topic here.

This thread is about Iran striking Israel and the validity of such information. Those who get mad that anyone criticizes Israel need to settle down. People who get mad at people getting mad at people criticizing Israel need to settle down.

There is a giant propaganda-machine in play here. I think it is safe to say it will continue to churn. But I do not think an Iran strike on Israel is imminent, even though I think the Zionists deserve it.

Settle down!

I am not an ATS' mod, but my cat is.



[edit on 5-5-2009 by pluckynoonez]

Originally posted by pluckynoonez


I am not an ATS' mod, but my cat is.



[edit on 5-5-2009 by pluckynoonez]

It makes me hot when Plucky seizes control of a thread.

Is that off topic?

reply to post by audas


Hmm once again you go...
Let us think of any anti-Israeli actions,statements, prejudices, or findings of the United Nations...Hmm

Is it a case of Israeli Derangement Syndrome (IDS) or simply focused hate that blinds? How anyone has missed construed Irans threats....when they are the translators....is hard for a thinking person to understand. Again ala Columbia University by the president of the country. Don't be haters just because you do not like the truth.