What are your standards for "proof"?

I've seen everything here from "I'd need to ride the ship myself" to "If somebody says it, no matter how crazy it sounds, I believe it."

So, what constitutes "proof" of an alien landing?

For me? The most important thing would be "no stealth". If six or seven different sources, reputable sources, are showing different angles on the same "ship", I'd start to hope we had a contact at last.

ive never seen a gorrila in perosn i know there real

i think some people will claim things are not real just to hold onto there belifes.

lets take bigfoot as a example i belive its real i have never seen it or dont know any one personaly that has (wuppy i think on hear has) but i think there are manny videos of a creature that matches bigfoot as well as hair samples footprints and credibel witnesses to make me belive that the creature is real

ufos are real its what is in them that is at question but lights in the sky are very easy for people who dont want to belive to palm off as somthing eles

but for me if credibel people have seen it and there is video picture of physical evidence i will belive it

reply to post by batch


So what makes a witness credible for you? Knowing them? Their (reported) qualifications?

reply to post by Gawdzilla


there credentials is a start i would deam a doctor to be credibell
but then a normal person like me with no college education who seamd belivebel and sinseare would also be credibel its hard to genralise its more case specific if im honest

Originally posted by batch
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

there credentials is a start i would deam a doctor to be credibell
but then a normal person like me with no college education who seamd belivebel and sinseare would also be credibel its hard to genralise its more case specific if im honest

Thanks. Besides "first person" reports, what else works for you? Traces? Artifacts? Radar reports? Video/photos?

reply to post by batch
Drs are just like anybody else in the sense that there are doctors who are "credible" & "trustworthy" & there are those that aren't. I don't think qualifications are the only consideration as to who you could believe about a UFO being real or not.
I often think about a person I knew who was a total skeptic to the point of being hostile if the subject of UFO's was raised. Then one day, that person called me & stated he had just observed a UFO in detail for a period of 5-10 mins & then told me all about it.
Is that some sort of proof?
Perhaps some would consider it so.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


i think artifacts or photographic/video evidence are belivebell

like my bigfoot example they have found hair samples with dna of a primate they cant identify and footprints with dermal (i think thats the word) ridges that are like human finger prints so i think that makes bigfoot a real speciese. the same with ufos there are acient drawings with what look like ufos on them as well as all the morden reports of abductions sightings and ex millatary personal coming out and claiming they have seen or heard about ufos and aliens so i belive in them also

what about ur veiws on what makes evidence belivebel

reply to post by batch


I'm a trained historian, so my standards of proof are rather high. As pointed out above, a person may be a doctor, but are they a good doctor? I don't consider "inferred" evidence to be very valuable at all. Eyewitness reports are to be considered in the larger picture of what/who/when/where/why.

Believable would be someone I know as trustworthy stating what they saw.

Even then, I'd probably be a bit suspicious, but that would be the clincher.

I find it hard to believe anything whatsoever. I can be enticed by the story of someone claiming he's a top-secret low-level worker dying from mysterious gotten illnesses, telling about the strange crafts and beings he saw.. but it's a bit like watching a movie. I like to put myself in that mindset, but there's not much keeping me there except for the thrill of it.

So usually I'm not looking that much for proof, but more or less for the overlap in how much people would like to believe, and how much they do. If there's a one-on-one match in the degree in which they would like to believe in an event and the degree in which they do.. Then it's plausible that there's not a shred of truth in it. Of course this leaves very little to actually believe in.. but hey, that keeps me sane!

I would believe if it came from multiple sources that i feel i could trust. People that only believe wat they see is odd. Alot of ppl i kno havnt seen china. How do they kno its real? They have only seen pictures and movies. What about the planets? How many people have actually seen all 8 planets?

I think it depends on the person but for me I just know and have always had a belief in them. I have never seen one but I still know they are there. I would love it if they just showed up on the White House lawn and said hello. There are many things I have never seen but I know they exist. I think that the thought of beings from another planet freaks many out so they choose not to believe no matter what. I believe that even when they do show themselves there will be some who will still say they are fake.

I guess it would depend on the circumstances. Having seen some for myself I have no doubt they exist. I guess it depends for me how much the person is able to gain from the story. such as pilots they could lose their job for a UFO report because who wants a crazy pilot that sees things! what do you gain or lose makes me more interested. for example I remember reading about a native in Peru's mountains traveling for three days to get somewhere to tell his UFO story to someone else. what did he gain nothing what did he lose three days of productivity at his farm. I doubt stories like these to be hoaxes.

Since no one else mentioned it let me be the first to point out the rather large list of cognitive biases employed by all humans to rationalize and cope with the world around them. It's a quick read and fundamentally relates to the weight of evidence needed by each individual before the person is willing to alter their position.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Xtraeme]

If anyone wants to pay for a polygraph I am sure there are lots of us who would line up.I am one who would give you the proof you need.

Is a polygraph acceptable?

Once I pass the polygraph maybe you would also like to take a look at my implant.

POSSIBLY YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE COPIES OF MY DREAM NOTES.

Did you know for example that the russians discovered how to duplicate the flying capabilitys of ufos?Gotcha didnt I,well believe it my friends,arent dreams cool!You see the torpedo that travels underwater faster than ANY TORPEDO EVER HAS travels in like a bubble of gas,this bubble of gas allows the torpedo to travel in a ZERO POINT ENERGY STATE,THIS IS BETTER THAN A VACUME,THE POINT WHERE THE GAS MEETS THE WATER OR THE POINT WHERE ANY TWO STATES OF MATTER MEET IS A "NO FIRE ZONE"IT IS ZERO POINT,A PLANE CAN INCREASE ITS ABILITY TO TRAVEL THROUGH THE AIR USING THE EXACT SAME PRINCIPAL.


A LITTLE CASE OF MONEY MAY HELP ME REMEMBER MORE,JUST KIDDING.

DONT PANIC AND ASK A LOT OF TECHNICAL QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW ,WAIT FOR THE BIDDING TO START.

It was kind of funny several years later when I read of a SUPER TALENTED SCIENTIST,who was from the area I was abducted from "co-incidentally" over thirty years later begin to do almost desperate research on ???You guessed it,ZERO POINT ENERGY.

tHEY ARENT EVEN REALLY CLOSE ,BUT THEY WILL BE SOON AFTER i HIT THE REPLY BUTTON TODAY.

wHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE LITTLE DETAILS IS WHAT WE ARE USED TO FIGURING OUT,IT IS THE MEAT OF THE IDEA THAT NEEDS TO BE GIVEN TO US,OR RATHER one of us needs to simply remember it.

Hold on here a minute,shouldnt this be costing someone money?

You want proof,pay for it,and money isnt enough,not money alone,you hook yourself up before I am done and answer my questions.

You see if you have any connection to government or organised corporate interests,or are part of a national or multi-national organisation,I will reject you.And your money.

You tell me your truth ,any truth I ask and I will tell you mine.

Seeing as the government has their own "stuff"you will have to be a private individual with a vested interest in how you will live long enough to spend all of your money,with the coming earth changes and all.

Heres the catch,you'll have to pay me in laptops because the only way you get any proof from me is if you prove you are human,if you are the money shouldnt matter,you TRULY KNOWING THE TRUTH SHOULD MATTER AFTER ALL ITS THE ONLY THING MONEY CANT BUY ,ASK RUMSFELD,and anyone else(there are many) who knows what the immediate future may hold.

Lets start with a bid of one million laptops,lets make them solar powered and satellite capable and delivered where I choose,intact,and distributed as I say.I say bid because there are a lot of very rich,very smart people who sometimes read these posts,and after all THEY ABOVE ALL OTHERS UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF INFORMATION AND THE EDGE IT GIVES YOU OVER THE REST OF HUMANITY.

You see I have a lot of people I want to help survive myself,yes there are ways my friends,but becoming hard to find at the right time will be very expensive.So we better adjust the opening bid here,we'll need to see another one million in cash on the table,after all everyone needs a cookie jar,right!

If one thousand people believe I am kidding its ok with me,BECAUSE I ONLY NEED TO GET THROUGH TO ONE.

THERE ISNT A LOT OF TIME SO WHY NOT HAVE A LITTLE FUN.

And by the way dont worry about any BIDDING competition from the government or huge corporations because they are already in the know.

I think what would be required for 'proof' is for one of the craft to actually crash in a city centre. Full live coverage. Multiple witnesses etc.

Failing that, the only proof I require is for me to be part of the experience.
See, Touch, Feel, Hear, Smell

I know 2 people who are FJPs in the RAF, they have told me that they have seen things they cant explain. That is enough proof for me becuase they are trusted friends and professionals.

Had I not been fortunate enough to haer their stories and see their pictures I think I would find it very difficult to believe a lot of the stuff that is posted on here.

I was abducted and I have a hard time believing a lot of what people claim to be true regarding personal contact.The majority of posts on ATS are not about abductees,and as such are not open to the scrutiny that abduction claims are open to.

A lot of the discussions revolve around current or past world events,a lot of the topics discussed are discussed in real time.Most of these are opinion based topics ,opinions stated in relation to agreed upon facts but presented from different perspectives.This is why so many people who read and post on abduction related threads CANNOT WRAP THEIR MINDS AROUND ACCEPTING ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT ISNT AGREED UPON BY A LANDSLIDE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE ON THE PARTICULAR THREAD.

You see, most other topics are approached by all in the above described manner,which precludes the option of being in a position to exercise an open mind and accept anyones testimony as "real",however if the majority of posters on an abduction thread AGREED that the testimony was equal to FACTS then we would see a different consensus begin to form,the only other thing that could do this is what the previous poster suggested,a crash in a major city,in front of many,filmed live and broadcast live before the transmission could be jammed.

I must add however that I was in fact able to find several gems here on ATS,people that I am 100% sure experienced the same thing as I have,I dont need to PROVE anything other than the fact that at least ONE other human experienced the same event that I have.

THIS IS THE HIGHFST STANDARD OF PROOF.

The highest standard for both you and I.If a fencesitter cant read through the threads on ATS and see what I have seen as far as commonalities go,then they are simply choosing to be adversarial because they are confused or afraid or some other reason .But they are CHOOSING denial as their reality or perspective.They could easily CHOOSE to believe due to the overwhelming amount of evidence available to them.

Maybe this is what some people mean in context when they talk about ascension,it may be possible that the disclosure process might have a very negative psycological effect on ANYONE WHO IS INCAPABLE FOR WHATEVER REASON OF OPENING THEIR MIND UP ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THE REALITY THEY ARE BEING PRESENTED WITH AS A POSSIBLE PERSPECTIVE THEY CAN UTILISE IN ORDER TO "REMAIN CURRENT OR REMAIN HERE PERIOD"

YOU SEE DENIAL OF THE OBVIOUS OR THE INABILITY TO ACCEPT THE POSSIBILITY MAY BE A SIMPLE TEST THAT IS BEING USED TO SOMEHOW SEPERATE US INTO TWO GROUPS.

IT SEEMS ODD TO ME THAT I CAN HEAR SO MANY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE ASK SO MANY SOUND QUESTIONS BUT THEN INEVITABLY BE "CONFUSED OR JAMMED"WHEN IT COMES TO ACCEPTANCE OF THE ANSWERS THEY RECIEVE.

I dont believe this is a fluke.Why arent all of us millionaires when the basics of finance are so simple?See compound interest.How is it possible for a nuclear physicist to not have the ability to balance a chequebook?

It seems that we are limited in what we can accomplish somehow IRREGARDLESS OF ACESS TO KNOWLEDGE,but whatever the reason is I can promise you IT WAS A DESIGNED REASON WITH AN AGENDA BEHIND IT.

It is actually scary how many otherwise smart people become paralysed when it comes to accepting proof relating to this topic.

I've said it before THE WORD OF YOUR FELLOW MAN OR A PICTURE OR A VIDEO OF YOU KILLING ANOTHER HUMAN EVEN IF THE BODY OR PHYSICAL EVIDENCE ARE NEVER EVER PRESENTED OR FOUND CAN AND WILL RESULT IN YOUR ASS BEING FRIED WITH THOUSANDS OF VOLTS OF JUICE.

All thanks to a JURY OF YOUR PEERS WHO WILL SOMEHOW FIND ENOUGH COMMON GROUND TO ACCEPT THE ABOVE STATED EVIDENCE.

Unlike the masses on ATS who refuse to accept this type of evidence as being FACT.

Unless you have a good lawyer,which is exactly what government employeed de-bunkers are you will be convicted or in the case of the government impeached or whatever happens to them when they are bad,I FORGOT THEY ARE ALL TEFLON DONS.

Gawdzilla, firstly, I've read quite a few of your posts and I wish every member was as well balanced as you when it comes to balancing belief against facts against faith, I know you 'want' to believe and that your mind is open to the possibility but I know you won't let that fact blind you into belief without a good dose of proof, as it should be.

Anyhow, what I DON'T count as proof is

1. Photographs or video (unless as you say, multi-sourced or live t.v e.c.t)

2. Testimony from people I don't know, doesn't matter how high up the ladder they are or where they've worked. I do believe people see things they can not explain so I'm not calling everyone a liar but I do think there's usually an earthly explanation for what people see, like in this link for instance www.abovetopsecret.com...

3. Old wall paintings from old civilisations and other human artifacts that may have some distant resemblance to something that flies or wears a helmet, no proof there.

4. Crop circles.

5. Crop circles, you're right, I said it twice as it deserves saying twice, crop circles are a weak, weak claim to proof.

5. Rocks on the Moon or Mars that are shaped ever so slightly like.....skulls e.c.t (I do like that one from Mars though, the one that looks like a figure pointing, the problem is that rocks come in all sorts of shapes and sizes so again...no proof there)

I might have missed some more out on top of those 5 examples of what I do NOT consider proof.



What I WOULD consider proof is..

1. A personal sighting (I know I'm stating the obvious there) or abduction.

2. Multi-sourced media coverage of something that happened live or something where there was a great amount of witnesses who also took video of the event themselves. I'm not talking about a light in the sky though, I'm talking something more than that.

3. Alien D.N.A taken from a (for example) reported U.F.O crash site, or a piece of alien technology that could not possibly be of earthly origin.

4. Testimony from people I am close to, I mean if say..my wife..for instance...told me in all seriousness that a U.F.O hovered above her head and then roared off I would believe her.


I can only hope one day they do visit us.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Standards for proof: Radar evidence and correlating video or multiple witness testimony along with video or photographic evidence.

But I have to stress that all it would "prove" is that a UFO was sighted, not that the UFO was of extra-terrestrial, crypto terrestrial or inter-dimensional design.

Overall I believe that UFOs exist and there are credible cases which have not been thoroughly studied/investigated. We cannot, however, judge intent or origin simply by seeing evidence of their flight plan.