Lithium in water 'curbs suicide'

Lithium in water

news.bbc.co.uk

Drinking water which contains the element lithium may reduce the risk of suicide, a Japanese study suggests.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 5/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

There you have it folks, undeniable proof of "seeding" a water supply.

I find this unethical for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which being, what gives any government the right to "seed" a water supply, even in the name of helping people, with mind altering drugs?

I find this to be an attempt to put a positive spin on water "seeding", before disclosure that they have been doing it with other elements.

Thoughts?

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree,even if this was some wonder cure for suicidal thoughts etc they are still medicating the water supply without the consent of the people.Even if 99.999% of people wanted it the other percentage should not have to have their water tainted with medication.And im guessing this would be nationwide whether you like it or not so there goes your freedom to take or not to take drugs out the window.

edited to add i know its not technically a drug but you see the point im making.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by Solomons]

Just like fluoride in the water was okay?

www.holisticmed.com...

Here are the side effects if someone is allergic to Lithium and/or drinks the water too much. Too much lithium in the blood can kill you.

Signs of overdose or poisoning are:

1. Persistent diarrhea.

2. Vomiting or severe nausea.

3. Coarse trembling of hands or legs.

4. Frequent muscle twitching such as pronounced jerking of arms or legs.

5. Blurred vision.

6. Marked dizziness.

7. Difficulty walking.

8. Slurred speech.

9. Irregular heart beat.

10. Swelling of the feet or lower legs.

So putting Lithium in the water helps curb suicide. Just like fluoride helped people who didn't brush their teeth.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
There you have it folks, undeniable proof of "seeding" a water supply.

Where in the article do you find this proof? Here is what it actually says about seeding water supplies:

The Japanese researchers called for further research in other countries but they stopped short of any suggestion that lithium be added to drinking water.

The discussion around adding fluoride to water to protect dental health has proved controversial - criticised by some as mass involuntary medication.

In an accompanying editorial, Professor Allan Young of Vancouver's Institute for Mental Health said "this intriguing data should provoke further research.

"Large-scale trials involving the addition of lithium to drinking water supplies may then be feasible, although this would undoubtedly be subject to considerable debate. Following up on these findings will not be straightforward or inexpensive, but the eventual benefits for community mental health may be considerable."

Sophie Corlett, external relations director at mental health charity Mind said the research "certainly merits more investigation.

"We already know that lithium can act as a powerful mood stabiliser for people with bipolar disorder, and treating people with lithium is also associated with lower suicide rates.

"However, lithium also has significant and an unpleasant side effects in higher doses, and can be toxic. Any suggestion that it should be added, even in tiny amounts, to drinking water should be treated with caution and researched very thoroughly."

news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by ziggystar60

Researchers examined levels of lithium in drinking water and suicide rates in the prefecture of Oita, which has a population of more than one million.

It does not say whether or not it was officially "added" or naturally occurring.

It is ridiculous that they can even consider this as the right thing. If they want people not to kill themselves why don't they hand out bottles of lithium pills. Besides, correct me if I am wrong but isn't Lithium really bad for the body. Why don't they just say we are going to drug you all so that you do not think what you aren't meant to think. You're probably right. Once they get it passed they'll say "Oh by the way we have been doing this for ages with other drugs and elements to keep you under control. It is for your own good, honest."

-Cauch1

I sense a major flaw in this plan. The medically beneficial concentrations of lithium (0.6mmol/l to 1.2mmol/l) are quite close to the toxic dosage (1.5mmol/l). Lithium treatments require constant blood chemistry tests to keep the drug from killing the patient. Seeding water supplies with it could be lethal.

Originally posted by SuperSecretSquirrel

It does not say whether or not it was officially "added" or naturally occurring.

Lithium does occur naturally in water and food. I found another article about this Japanese study, the important parts set in bold by me:

Researchers at Oita University in Japan measured natural lithium levels in tap water in 18 communities in the surrounding region of southern Japan.

The lithium levels ranged between 0.7 micrograms per litre and 59 micrograms per litre.

The researchers then calculated the suicide rate in each of the 18 areas. They found that the suicide rate was significantly lower in those areas with the highest levels of lithium in the water.

Writing in the British Journal of Psychiatry, the researchers said: "Our study suggests that very low levels of lithium in drinking water can lower the risk of suicide. Very low levels may possess an anti-suicidal effect."

Lithium is a naturally occurring metal found in variable amounts in food and water. In medicine, very high doses are used to treat bipolar disorder and mood disorders.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Natural doses are indeed low. But Lithium has a lot of side effects. If person drinks 3 liters of water a day, he gets (according to this research) 2.1 mgr/day tops. It is low as far as toxicity goes, but since they speak about adding Lithium externally, then it gets very problematic. To prevent suicide (for example US rate in 1999 was 21.7/100000) for say hundred people hundreds of thousands tp millions have to be "Lithiumised". With potential side effects and interactions. With issue of pregnancy/lactation. With possible mess ups due to human factor. Frankly benefit vs loss is not that clear to me.
I actually see no point (well except for researchers getting a well deserved publication). If add Lithium in higher then natural doses, why not add SSRIs/SNRIs too? The more the merrier .


[edit on 1-5-2009 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by ziggystar60


They didnt admit seeding of lithium, however, they talk of seeding with fluoride and that they are considering seeding with lithium.

Doesnt the idea that they are even testing the affect of chems in water supplies tell you that it is for the purpose of seeding?

According to the Handbook of Lithium and Natural Calcium, "Lithium is a comparatively rare element, although it is found in many rocks and some brines, but always in very low concentrations. There are a fairly large number of both lithium mineral and brine deposits but only comparatively a few of them are of actual or potential commercial value. Many are very small, others are too low in grade."[20] The most important deposit of lithium is in the Salar de Uyuni area of Bolivia, which holds half of the world's reserves. According to the US Geological Survey the reserves of lithium in Bolivia are estimated at 5.4 million tons, compared with 3 million tons in Chile, 1.1 million tons in China and just 410,000 tons in the United States.[21][22] The lithium reserves are estimated at 30 million tonnes in 2015[23].

Seawater contains an estimated 230 billion tons of lithium, though at a low concentration of 0.1 to 0.2 ppm.[24]

So where are these high concentrations coming from in Japan?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

They didnt admit seeding of lithium, however, they talk of seeding with fluoride and that they are considering seeding with lithium.

Doesnt the idea that they are even testing the affect of chems in water supplies tell you that it is for the purpose of seeding?

To be honest, I think you need to read the article again. Focus on the FACTS in the story instead of jumping to your own conclusions.

Good luck.

I'm sure this is a rather elementary question, sorry I'm new. But do water purifiers (ie Brita) have an effect on removing these chemicals or is it just random other stuff that it "removes"?

Originally posted by searching4truth
I'm sure this is a rather elementary question, sorry I'm new. But do water purifiers (ie Brita) have an effect on removing these chemicals or is it just random other stuff that it "removes"?

I'm afraid in most cases the answer is no, such filters are useless against certain kinds of chemicals.

Dosing populations 'en masse' is a stratagem developed by fascist control-freaks long ago. Clearly, they have never totally abandoned the notion.

Bet you their funding for the research came at least in part via the WHO or the WTO.... that IS where the control freaks moved their 'shop' isn't it... perhaps they will build this into the Codex Alimentarium, it's a perfect fit, and DOW and Monsanto would have their pharmaceutical interests profit handsomely to boot!

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

They didnt admit seeding of lithium, however, they talk of seeding with fluoride and that they are considering seeding with lithium.

Doesnt the idea that they are even testing the affect of chems in water supplies tell you that it is for the purpose of seeding?

To be honest, I think you need to read the article again. Focus on the FACTS in the story instead of jumping to your own conclusions.

Good luck.

Okay, so answer the question I posed earlier(because apparently thinking logically and making obvious connections is to be detested around here):

Looking at the reference I gave you in my lst post, where are these HIGH levels (comparatively speaking) in japan come from?

The levels are higher than those found naturally. Is assuming, since these levels are higher than those in bolivia(which holds over half the worlds supply), that there must be another explanation wrong?

reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic


Just out of curiosity, could the levels be elevated because of lithium prescribed to people leaving their bodies and being returned to the water table via sewers?

They may not be adding lithium to the water supply YET but that seems to be some peoples immediate thought after this study was published
quote from BBC news article

""In an accompanying editorial, Professor Allan Young of Vancouver's Institute for Mental Health said "this intriguing data should provoke further research.

"Large-scale trials involving the addition of lithium to drinking water supplies may then be feasible, although this would undoubtedly be subject to considerable debate. Following up on these findings will not be straightforward or inexpensive, but the eventual benefits for community mental health may be considerable."

Sophie Corlett, external relations director at mental health charity Mind said the research "certainly merits more investigation.""

Why can't they just leave things to do their own thing NATURALLY and stop messing about with nature, it ALWAYS does more harm than good in the end.

Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic

 

Just out of curiosity, could the levels be elevated because of lithium prescribed to people leaving their bodies and being returned to the water table via sewers?

Thats a great thought, and one that could definitely prove true.

I also thought about this:
www.telegraph.co.uk...

If the gold levels are this high in their sewers, you have to wonder what other metals that are not being searched for are leaching into the water. Lithium is an alkali metal, and does combine inot isotopes.

Considering all the battery tech that uses lithium now, it is quite possible, in my opinion, that it is coming from the sewer system.

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

They didnt admit seeding of lithium, however, they talk of seeding with fluoride and that they are considering seeding with lithium.

Doesnt the idea that they are even testing the affect of chems in water supplies tell you that it is for the purpose of seeding?

To be honest, I think you need to read the article again. Focus on the FACTS in the story instead of jumping to your own conclusions.

Good luck.

Do you really contend that admission of fluoridating water and the admission that they are considering seeding water with lithium is not an admission?

It's funny, you say "focus on the facts", as if only flat out admission is fact;

whereas I say, "You need to look at what they are saying without actually saying it", as that is where the true facts lie.

Complete hogwash. Just like how flouride is good for your teeth. Well, it is but that is only when the chemical is applied directly to the enamel. Not when it is ingested. This is a freaking joke and it will be used to try and convince people that it is in their best interest to have this chemical added in order to prevent suicides. BULL! That's what I have to say.

I'm sure there will be some people that will get on here and say how it sounds like a grand idea. We will be saving lives. Sure, and I have some ice cubes in antartica to sell you.