Pentagon Attack Cab Driver Lloyde England's Virtual Confession of Involvement In the 9/11 Black Op

Originally posted by Grimstad
I present this here as it was linked to as evidence to support the premise of the topic of this thread. It is important to the topic as the sole witness testimony in this video is considered as one of the 13 witnesses in question.

North Side Flyover Video produced by CIT
(keep in mind that according to claims in writing and in video, Sean Boger is considered by CIT (Craig and company) to be possibly the single most credible witness, an “expert witness” in fact and I actually tend to agree with them on this point)

Pay close attention starting from about 8:15 .
There is actually an EXCELLENT example of their attempt to lead the witness at 8:53 in which Craig’s accomplice starts to say left and actually stops mid word and rephrases the question to focus on the right. Right is what he WANTS the witness to say. This is called ‘leading the witness” and any lawyer trying this would get slapped down in a heartbeat.

Haha!

Look at you still working overtime this entire weekend to spin and lie about this information.

If you want to go into the details of Sean Boger's account you are off topic and there is a thread for that created already here.

But I'll answer you here anyway.

Why didn't you post a transcript?

I'll tell you why. Because you are dead wrong and lying about this interview.

Here is the part of our Boger interview in question:

Aldo Marquis: You could see the gas station from there, correct, the citgo?

Sean Boger: Yeah

Aldo Marquis: Ok, Would you say, what side of the gas station would you say the plane was on as it approached, would you say it's on the left, as you're looking at the gas station would it be more to the right, like the Arlington cemetery side or would it have been.....

(sean interrupts)

Sean: It would be on my right and the gas station's left. If I'm looking out the window because I'm looking towards the gas station, it would be on my right hand side.

So clearly Aldo was trying to phrase the question to be very specific and particular as to the direction without any ambiguity since this was a phone interview and Sean could not point.

Sean was SO certain that the plane was on the north side that he interrupted Aldo before he finished the question in order to confidently assert that the plane was on the north side. So Aldo was not leading, he was being very thorough in his phrasing but was interrupted by Sean who already knew his answer.

By saying "on my right and the gas station's left" Sean is trying to be very clear to you how it was on the north side either way you are facing.

Aldo further clarified it as well:

Aldo: So if you were at the gas station at the back of store with your back to the store facing the Pentagon, it would have been to the left of the gas station.

Sean: Right, right.

That follow up clarification of what Sean already said made it 100% perfectly clear that he was placing it on the north side.

Just as predicted....you can not let this issue go and you have been obsessively going through it all DESPITE publicly proclaiming that you had already given it too much attention and were done with it.

You are searching for ANY little thing that you can harp on as a way to cast doubt on this information but you are failing really bad.

Anyone who listens to that interview will be able to tell that Sean was quite certain that the plane was on the north side and that this had NOTHING to do with any leading questions.

If you don't believe then why don't you call Sean yourself?


Feel free to continue to lie all you want but I can tell you out of all our detractors, you are the FIRST one to go this far regarding Boger and you are forced to remove the quotes from context of the transcript and straight up lie about what was said to do it.

That's ok, it only keeps this thread bumped and encourages people to listen to the interview for themselves to hear the obvious truth and expose you as a liar.

Oh and you forgot something.....all of the other witnesses, including the ones at the citgo station, also place the plane on the north side.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/438d39d36cc2.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

The only reason to flip the perspective was to try and disorient the witness.
That is not the angle that he observed it from so why even propose it if not to disorient.
Why would you put him in that position?
There is no good reason to do this.
Why would you not want him to describe it EXACLY as he witnessed it?
That may be a standard tactic for the forums but is totally unacceptable for collecting witness testimony.
But you know that don't you?

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Sorry but we interviewed McGraw and he says that he did not see the plane approach at all and that he only saw it AFTER it flew over the top of him.

At the official speed this only gives him 1 second to see the plane.

He has NEVER placed the plane south of the gas station and he didn't in the quote you posted either.

Why are you lying about his account?

Despite admitting to growing up in the area and being a former DoJ attorney for 5 years, He claims he did not even know he was next to the Pentagon on 9/11 so obviously he makes no comments regarding north or south of the citgo and there is no reason to suggest that he would even know that there is a citgo but since he has ALWAYS admitted that he didn't see the plane approach at all (or hit any light poles), we know he would not be able to answer that anyway.

Therefore he is NOT a south side witness.

Penny Elgas makes no specific claims in this regard either nor does she in the quote you posted. Why are you lying about her account?

Zackhem claims that she fell to the ground crying in hysterical fear and we know for a fact that the trees surrounding her impeded her view. Details and photographic evidence regarding her are available here.

Furthermore her shaky account is proven false by Edward Paik and marine aviator Terry Morin at the Navy Annex, both who have MUCH more lucid accounts.

Hemphill's account is a vague unconfirmed media report. That is hearsay, not evidence.

Either talk with him direct and provide a first hand account or it's clear you have nothing.

Sorry but the EVIDENCE proves the plane flew on the north side.

You have provided zero EVIDENCE to refute this.

reply to post by Grimstad


He has it on the north side.

We were very specific and thorough with him about this and anyone who listens to the interview will be able to tell.

Your desperate spin is falling flat and is off topic.

If you want to continue to lie about our interview with Sean Boger please do it in the appropriate thread.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

On page 2 of this thread YOU brought Sean in as a witness. That makes his testimony fair game in this thread.

Taken directly from the video you posted, starting at 8:50

What side of the gas station would you say the plane was on as it approached? Would you say it was on the le…As you’re look at the gas station would it be more to the right, like the Arlington cemetery side or would it be in…

Sean interrupts 9:01

It would be on my right and the gas stations left

Your written transcript is WRONG. Aldo cut himself off in the middle of the word “LEFT” at 8:55 and restarted the question. He was attempting to “lead” the witness in the wrong direction. It wasn’t until Aldo changed the perspective 180 degrees that he finally got him to contradict himself.
Why would you not want the witness to describe the event EXACTLY AS HE WITNESSED IT?

It’s there for everybody to listen to.

EDIT Rampant underline for both edits

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Grimstad]

[edit on 3-5-2009 by Grimstad]

Keep up the good work Craig. I am from the Uk and I saw this video months ago now..and it has stayed with me. I show it to many of my friends as I believe it is a very important bit of evidence. The way his wife reacted and what she said was an eye opener for me. Also the April Gallup testimony had an impact .

Keep going! and I love your technique.

reply to post by Grimstad



The fact is that Aldo hadn't finished the question and Boger interrupted him to emphatically state it was on the north side.

That is not even close to an example of leading the witness and you look foolish for asserting that it is let alone for asserting that this is WHY Boger placed the plane on the north side.

The plane on the official flight path would NEVER be on Boger's right.

Never.

He is describing the plane on the north side and he was quite confident of this.

It is clear as day.

No amount of spin can change it.

This should make you want to help us fight for truth and justice if you cared about your country or were against mass murder and permanent global war but instead you have chosen to attack and lie about the information in defense of this heinous war crime.

reply to post by sueloujo


Thank you sueloujo.

I know that honest people like you are able to see the obvious implications of this definitive evidence but it helps to hear it!

I guarantee that we will continue and attention to this critical information will only continue to grow.

Peace!

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by Grimstad

 

The fact is that Aldo hadn't finished the question and Boger interrupted him to emphatically state it was on the north side.

That is not even close to an example of leading the witness and you look foolish for asserting that it is let alone for asserting that this is WHY Boger placed the plane on the north side.

The plane on the official flight path would NEVER be on Boger's right.

Never.

He is describing the plane on the north side and he was quite confident of this.

It is clear as day.

No amount of spin can change it.

This should make you want to help us fight for truth and justice if you cared about your country or were against mass murder and permanent global war but instead you have chosen to attack and lie about the information in defense of this heinous war crime.

YOU LIE.
He said it was to the LEFT of the gas station, to his right side.
If he was looking out the west window of the tower(the direction of the official flight path), until the plane crossed the road it would have been to his right. You selectively ignore testimony to try and prove your assertion.
You totally disregard the overwhelming evidence inside Lloyds car and bury it 45 minutes into the interview, all to support your HIGHLY SPECULATIVE theory that Lloyde didn’t actually get hit by the pole.
You are foisting a completely fraudulent examination of the evidence on the public.
Your "fight" has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

I would like nothing more than to see the Bush admin brought up on charges of treason and war crimes, but I am not about to sacrifice my own honor to do so. You sir have NO HONOR. You are a disgrace to the quest for truth and justice.

Originally posted by Grimstad

You are foisting a completely fraudulent examination of the evidence on the public.
Your "fight" has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

"completely fraudulent" doesn't hold water in my book. Like all who attempt to expose the lies Craig steps over the lines from time to time, but his heart is in the right place.

I would like nothing more than to see the Bush admin brought up on charges of treason and war crimes, but I am not about to sacrifice my own honor to do so. You sir have NO HONOR. You are a disgrace to the quest for truth and justice.

Can you explain "your honor" so we can understand your position in regards to 911?

Once again Craig you've brought forth very interesting and candid behind the curtain views. Your effort is noticed and appreciated.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

 

Sorry but we interviewed McGraw and he says that he did not see the plane approach at all and that he only saw it AFTER it flew over the top of him.

At the official speed this only gives him 1 second to see the plane.

He has NEVER placed the plane south of the gas station and he didn't in the quote you posted either.

Why are you lying about his account?

Despite admitting to growing up in the area and being a former DoJ attorney for 5 years, He claims he did not even know he was next to the Pentagon on 9/11 so obviously he makes no comments regarding north or south of the citgo and there is no reason to suggest that he would even know that there is a citgo but since he has ALWAYS admitted that he didn't see the plane approach at all (or hit any light poles), we know he would not be able to answer that anyway.

Therefore he is NOT a south side witness.

Penny Elgas makes no specific claims in this regard either nor does she in the quote you posted. Why are you lying about her account?

Zackhem claims that she fell to the ground crying in hysterical fear and we know for a fact that the trees surrounding her impeded her view. Details and photographic evidence regarding her are available here.

Furthermore her shaky account is proven false by Edward Paik and marine aviator Terry Morin at the Navy Annex, both who have MUCH more lucid accounts.

Hemphill's account is a vague unconfirmed media report. That is hearsay, not evidence.

Either talk with him direct and provide a first hand account or it's clear you have nothing.

Sorry but the EVIDENCE proves the plane flew on the north side.

You have provided zero EVIDENCE to refute this.

I would strongly suggest you refrain from accusing me of lying simply because you are too lazy to read the obvious. Accusing people of lying when you have no evidence that they are doing so is a pretty sad tactic and shows you either have seriously impaired comprehension skills, or simply like to throw accusations around when someone does not agree with you.

According to your own video, your maps, and McGraw's own testimony, he was very much south of your alleged flight plan. And in his own words, he felt the plane go right over him. If the plane was right above him or close enough to feel/hear it, that puts it well south of your alleged flight path.

So I ask you, are you being deliberately obtuse here about his account because it does not fit your pre-set theory?

Penny Elgas clearly states that the plane was coming over Columbia Pike Road, passing the CITGO. From her perspective, that means that the plane was flying SOUTH of the CITGO, as seen on the official flight path details.

As for Zakhem, her account states she also saw it coming over Columbia Pike Road. Again, South of Citgo.

By the way, thank you for linking me to your forum. After reading crap like this posted by you guys:

The question is why?

Is Madlene merely an opportunist who wanted attention for what she claimed was a traumatic event?

Was Madlene drastically mistaken? Unlikely.

Or is Madlene an operative of some sort?

I have made comments about her jewish sounding last name and possible Israeli accent. Is there a possibility she is Mossad? Perhaps.

But one thing is for sure. She certainly was not telling the truth about what she saw on 9/11.

A Mossad operative, because she has maybe a Jewish last name and she has an "israeli accent"? Do you people actually listen to the ridiculous crap you are spewing forth, or do you care?

As for Paik, his account claims that the plane's wing clipped the Navy antenna, when no such thing happened. Judging from his account, I don't see it destroyng Zakhem's account at all. If anything, it seems alot more vague and position oriented than hers.

Hemphill's account is not heresay. Where the hell did you pull that one out? It is quite clear he was speaking first hand.

The witness locations and reports of either seeing said planes right overhead, or feeling them, puts the plane on a South Flight path. If you actually bothered to look, you would see that.

And as far as your "documentary", judging by your behavior and interviewing tactics, I simply do not find your information very convincing at all. I find it difficult to take any of it seriously.

As for flying all the way from Spain to Washington D.C. to interview a couple of people who are most likely sick to death of pushy, rude people interrogating them, when there is plenty of accounts of what they saw on that day available already, accounts still fresh in their minds, not made years later. I have a spouse and a life, and I do not possess the funds to go flying all over the place to hunt down people who already have stated what they saw.

I think any REASONABLE person will judge for themselves where the weight of evidence lies. The people who had the best view of what was going on were in the traffic jam next to the Pentagon, and their reports all indicate the plane flew right over them, putting it South of CITGO.

Next time you want to debate, try doing so without throwing around accusations or tossing witnesses or casting dark clouds on them because they don't agree with you.

Originally posted by Grimstad

He said it was to the LEFT of the gas station, to his right side.
If he was looking out the west window of the tower(the direction of the official flight path), until the plane crossed the road it would have been to his right. .

Excuse me????

He NEVER said "west window of the tower"!

Now you are blatantly interjecting things he never said of course without quoting him in order to perpetuate your lie.

Sean was 100% clear that he was looking towards the gas station when he was watching the plane approach.

Sean: It would be on my right and the gas station's left. If I'm looking out the window because I'm looking towards the gas station, it would be on my right hand side.

The plane was on HIS RIGHT while he was looking TOWARDS THE GAS STATION.

He couldn't have beeen any more clear yet here you are ignoring what he said and replacing it with your own fraudulent words as means to twist this definitive info to fit the official story.

You expose your dishonest approach to this information more with every post.

reply to post by infinityoreilly


Honor
noun 1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.

Truth and justice are NOT commodities to be traded.
Either you believe in it or you do not.
There is no in between.

Craig steps over the lines from time to time, but his heart is in the right place.

His heart is not in the right place if he is not seeking the truth.

That is my position on 9/11. I seek the truth.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Take a look at the pictures. The annex and gas station are both west of the tower. The other window faces north. He would have been looking to the west. And right there, you quoted it. How does left of the gas station indicate the northern flight path?

Originally posted by Grimstad
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

 

Take a look at the pictures. The annex and gas station are both west of the tower. The other window faces north. He would have been looking to the west. And right there, you quoted it. How does left of the gas station indicate the northern flight path?

EDIT: I mispoke. It was a couple posts ago you quoted it.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Paik specifically claims that he did NOT see the plane hit the VDOT tower, NO witness has EVER claimed they saw the plane hit the VDOT tower, and the VDOT specifically says that the tower was not hit.

Paik and Morin very specifically have the plane directly over the Navy Annex as do many other witnesses which is north of Columbia Pike, contradicting Zackhem.

Zackhem's account is extremely shaky and dubious for a multitude of reasons.

Weren't you accusing Harley Guy of being an operative?

Be careful of the stones you throw.

9/11 can't be an inside job without operatives.

Even still we have not directly accused Zackhem of being one (or even Lloyde for that matter). Suggesting that it is merely possible she is one due to the fact that her account is very questionable and proven false by the overall evidence is not inappropriate.

And again.....NOTHING McGraw or Elgas has said is specifically north or south of the citgo and in fact there is no proof that either of them were on the highway at the time of the attack.

Our placement of McGraw on the map was merely to hypothetically demonstrate where he would be in relation to the official flight path IF it were true and IF it really did fly directly over him.

We did this to demonstrate how it would be virtually impossible for him to miss the plane hitting the light poles yet he claims he did not see it hit any poles.

But nothing he nor Elgas says definitively supports a south as opposed to north side path.

Saying the plane was over Columbia Pike is a generalized claim particularly for anyone on route 27 who is not in a position to tell that anyway.

The plane WAS over Columbia Pike even on the north path. We don't deny this.

If you want to dismiss the crystal clear very lucid and corroborated video recorded first hand accounts of the ANC and citgo station witnesses based on Zackhem and Hemphill knock yourself out.

ETA: But Hemphill's alleged account most certainly IS hearsay. All 2nd hand media reports are hearsay unless they provide video or audio of the witness making the claim direct. There is no recorded first-hand audio or video of Hemphill's account. You don't even know if he is a real person.

Logical people will understand that the witnesses on the citgo station property are the ones who could tell with the most certainty what side the plane flew.

This is a FACT.

And it's 100% unanimous, they all place it on the north side.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fe934f84a679.jpg[/atsimg]

So you can take ambiguous out of context 2nd hand media quotes from other witnesses to spin this but until you provide at least 4 first-hand accounts from people who were on the citgo station property placing the plane on the south side you have not refuted this evidence.






[edit on 3-5-2009 by Craig Ranke CIT]

reply to post by Grimstad


I personally don't agree with everything CIT has done nor do I completely disagree.

Honor, as you've given us the sterile definition, is as different from person to person.

Example-- Cop kills an innocent person, partner backs up bogus story to protect buddies "honor".

Hence my inquiry. Sorry I didn't understand the point you were making.

As far Craigs heart, from all the energy expended and investigating he has done, it leads me to this conclusion.

I don't really know for sure, can you explain how you do "jthomas"?

Spelling

[edit on 5/3/2009 by infinityoreilly]

Originally posted by Grimstad


Take a look at the pictures. The annex and gas station are both west of the tower. The other window faces north. He would have been looking to the west. And right there, you quoted it. How does left of the gas station indicate the northern flight path?

He said the plane was to HIS right while looking at the gas station and the gas station's LEFT if you're at the back of the store facing the Pentagon.

That is north of the gas station.

It's real simple.

We made sure to clarify it both ways so people like you wouldn't be able to spin and lie about it yet here you are working as hard as you can to do it anyway.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly


I personally don't agree with everything CIT has done nor do I completely disagree.

I'd be interested in hearing what we have done that you disagree with.

I'll be happy to address it.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


WRONG
Thats the VERY FIRST THING HE SAYS.
Before Aldo moves it to the gas station.
It's YOUR evidence. You should know it.

When asked about the flight path of the plane that hit the pentagon, Sean Boger clearly states “it would be on MY RIGHT but the GAS STATIONS LEFT”. That comment is briefly put on screen and underlined. The very next statement is, “If I’m looking out the window because I’m looking towards the gas station, it would be on MY RIGHT hand side.” Craig repeats the audio of the 2nd statement while the text remains on screen then immediately flashes a note on the FAR RIGHT SIDE of the screen (actually rather far from the gas station) that says “right / north” but ignores the left side of the Citgo comment. Left side of the Citgo is COMPLETELY CONTRARY to the premise of the north side flyover. He then proceeds to ‘lead” the witness to extract the claim he wants to hear. He changes the perspective 180 degrees to having the gas station behind the witness facing the pentagon