Animals and Consciousness

Originally posted by Astyanax

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Buddy, you need to do some reading up on the implications of modern science.

You mean popular-science cash cows like the ones you named? I'll get my science from more respectable sources, thanks. I didn't learn my physics on the internet; I read an honours degree in it. Thanks for the advice, all the same.

Things are not what you think they are or as they seem, not at all.

Well, get off your rocking-horse and explain how they really are, then. Contribute some real content to a thread for a change, instead of just sitting there scoffing.

We are trying to explain them, unfortunately people like you will never be able to comprehend the ideas because you are clouded by accepting observational science as fact without proving every single angle of it.

I'm not going to disagree that modern science is accepted fact. It is THE paradox of man, to simply cast off what he can't explain. To accept what he can explain as fact, and label unexplained things as myth.

When science can prove everything, I'll become a complete believer in it. Until then, it is the same paradox you are asking us, but from the other side. Show me evolution from monkeys to man, show me how the universe was formed.

Both sides are trying to do just this. Overvaluing one over the other is not wise.

[edit on 1-5-2009 by sticky]

I've wondered the same thing my whole entire life. Even when I came to ATS, I asked around.

I finally found my answer. If you are into the teachings of Ra and the Law of One, you can find the answer there. But you gotta be at the point where you believe in channeled information.

www.lawofone.info...

Questioner: So more and more second-density entities are making it into third density. Can you give me an example of a second-density entity coming into the third density in the recent past?

Ra: I am Ra. Perhaps the most common occurrence of second-density graduation during third-density cycle is the so-called pet.

For the animal which is exposed to the individualizing influences of the bond between animal and third-density entity, this individuation causes a sharp rise in the potential of the second density entity so that upon the cessation of physical complex the mind/body complex does not return into the undifferentiated consciousness of that species, if you will.

edit to add a quote from site

[edit on 1-5-2009 by blujay]

Interesting post. I guess the real question is; are animals aware of their consciousness? I also agree that everything has a residual consciousness, but for animals to be like us, they would have to be aware of a higher self that resides above the thinker.

Everything possesses a spirit but are they aware that they posses it or are they on auto pilot? Some humans run on autopilot every day and don't even know it.

Astyanax, one day it will be proven to you, just wait. It helps to have an open mind though. It would be a sad thing if you fought it off your whole life because it really makes the whole experience a whole lot more beautiful. I just hope it doesn't take death to finally prove you wrong.

Originally posted by sticky
If the body is a vessel for the soul, and the brain with a spirit is what is understood as consciousness. Do only mammals, or all animals or anything with a brain have a spirit?

i don't see why it would be limited to mammals.

Is this limited to non brain having life in any way?

i wouldn't think so.

If you believe in such things, look around you. Look at the LIFE around you. Observe it and make note of how similar it is to yourself.

recently i've been taking time to observe ants in my backyard. One particular colony has erected an ant hill and they have placed a flat piece of tree bark a top it to protect it from rain. Did they accidentally place this piece of wood over their mound as a roof? Or is their some sort of inherent logic within them/their DNA?

everything within our ecosystem appears seamless. All things, organic and non-organic appear harmoniously connected in some way. Perhaps we are all one fragmented soul.

reply to post by bringthelight

Astyanax, one day it will be proven to you, just wait. It helps to have an open mind though. It would be a sad thing if you fought it off your whole life because it really makes the whole experience a whole lot more beautiful. I just hope it doesn't take death to finally prove you wrong.

I've done the mystic thing already, as it happens.

The human brain is full of interesting chemicals.

From a Taoist perspective, all is consciousness. That means that humans, animals and plants share consciousness, and there's plenty of scientific evidence to suggest telepathy between humans and animals and plants. try googling Rupert Sheldrake. I've posted plently of his stuff on ATS.

However, a soul is different from consciousness. In Taoist meditation there's a process by which you solidify your shen or soul to the point that consciousness can outlive the body rather than dissipating into the Tao. Most humans never do this, and it's unlikely that animals accomplish it either.

reply to post by Astyanax


What did "doing the mystic thing" consist of? Just curious.

Here is the first non human life form proven to know how to keep tempo and beat...aka Music..

as well as creative form....www.npr.org...

Dear List,

The evolutionary type of knowledge is but the accumulation of protoplasmic memory material; this is the most primitive form of creature consciousness. Wisdom embraces the ideas formulated from protoplasmic memory in process of association and recombination, and such phenomena differentiate human mind from mere animal mind. Animals have knowledge, but only man possesses wisdom capacity. Truth is made accessible to the wisdom-endowed individual by spirit working with what man chooses to do.

Consciousness is being self aware, but it is only man who gives awareness any meaning. The collective vegetable life can interact with the environment as a community defending against diseases (for example), but such is a different order of consciousness from what man experiences.

Man can give meaning to existence even without experience, but experience is essential to test those meanings. Thought alone does not have eternal consequences, but what man does with thought does have a lasting value. In the material realm, collective thought translated into actions results in civilizations. However, no civilization lasts if that thought is not aligned with the values of spirit that form the organizations which preserve culture.

Thank you.

Everything contains atomic energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only change forms. I believe that when plants and animals die their energy is just tranformed into another form. When plants die, the cells change. They have a purpose above ground when they are alive, and they serve a vital purpose to the earth when they die. Same with insects, animals, i.e. dinosaurs became oil and coal which is used as another form of energy and so on and so on. Every single thing in the universe has a specific purpose. I feel viruses and such are here to help maintain a balance in order to support life. When they die, they merely transform, or mutate into another form in order to keep living on and serving their role in the cycle of life. Diseases work in humans to help maintain a balance, diseases in plants and animals work the same way, otherwise, there would be too much of everything and everything would die. Now, I believe that horses, dogs and cats serve a specific role in directly helping people survive. Man could not have survived this long without horses, and dogs have helped man for centuries. They were not used for amusement through out history like they are now, they assisted man. We are again just starting to realize the multitudes of ways in which they can further help us survive. They do have souls as we do. I believe they are really a type of angel, here to take care of us.
As they learned with the Black Plague, cats serve a purpose as well.
As someone posted earlier, all this energy is absorbed back into the universe. I think each life force is tranferred back into their own plane of existence and moves on to another form to serve their purpose to maintain the cycle of life. Super novas explode and send out all the basic elements that make up the universe. Everything lives and then dies, only to come back in another form to serve in this cycle. Humans are no different. When we die, our energy goes on to the next level of existence to serve our purpose in life. What is truely the meaning of existence will only be known when you die. I feel that the reason we are sent here in human form is because the Creator of all can only be completely realized through the existence of the human experience.
Of course this is just my belief.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by sickofitall2012]

[edit on 2-5-2009 by sickofitall2012]

reply to post by bringthelight

What did "doing the mystic thing" consist of? Just curious.

Off topic.

If you want to know more, u2u me.

You will probably be disappointed.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Show me a soul.

It could be human or squirrel, I don't care. Just show me a soul.

Then we'll talk.

No one can show you the soul brother. That must be discovered on your own. No amount of information or thought will make it so. It must be experienced.

Thats why I say that the soul doesnt exist intill you find it. Only when you are certain shall it ever be.

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Wisen Heimer]

God(Consciousness) sleeps in the minerals, awakens in plants, walks in animals, and thinks in man.
Arthur Young


I put in "consciousness" in the quote

Dr. V.S. Ramachandran, Director of the Center for Brain and Cognition at UCSD, discusses consciousness, qualia, and self.

[Qualia = sensations you are conscious of:]




Some interesting ideas proposed by Dr. Ramachandran about the co-evolution of qualia and the self which he regards as being intimately linked to language and the construction of meta-representations .

It is a marvel that we can take a relatively minuscule set of letters(symbols) ....and expand them into near infinite combinations to express/evoke "meaning."
Though it is so easy to get tied up in knots thinking about it ...... well i certainly do anyway

We carry the most complexly organised structure in the universe atop our shoulders . One hundred billion neurons , each neuron making something between one thousand to ten thousand connections with other neurons .......... wow !

......... i`m washing that thought down with a beer as i type...

Is the brain capable of understanding itself ?


I certainly hope so , ........... wouldn`t it be the ultimate prize, though i`ll have to wait until someone publishes a lay-mans version of the theory to wrap my head around it.