American History??

You're right, a comparatively small group, only a few thousand or more individuals, as well as various corporations, special interest groups, political pushers, ect. Seem to pay attention to the sites themselves.
Millions more visit the museums (since, hey, most people aren't located near enough to these sites to visit them in person) or the websites that host the research, dig photo's, or attend lectures detailing the digs and discoveries made.

From there, there are also a comparatively small group that studies the Earth itself, or Roman archaeology, or European, or the oceans.

There are BILLIONS of people on this world, all with different interests.

That there is a comparatively SMALL section focused solely on North American Natives is not surprising.
Thinking that the entire world should be focused on one continent is egocentric.

Sundiata

Admittedly, for the very reasons I stated, I don't know a lot abouto some of those cultures, but one that I loved is called "Sundiata". It is (extremely loosely) based on a real person, but as you will see, the characters do stuff that is superhuman and totally unrealistic, but it's a blast to read. I'm not sure how long the full version is, as I only read excerpts as part of a world history class. That prof was pretty good about actually including stuff from other regions of the world in his world history course, but the other world history I took was very Eurocentric.

We had 2 textbooks in that class, one was a Eurocentric world history, and the other was a selection of myths and literature that represented the world very well, giving proper weight to Africa and Asia and stuff. Sundiata was one of my favourites in that collection, but Beowulf was pretty cool too; I ended up doing a term paper on Beowulf. They're actually a fairly similar style, in that both are fantasy-like epics, though Sundiata is far more cheerful than Beowulf, and since it Sundiata was passed down orally for a really long time, when it was finally written down it was in more modern English, so it's way easier to read than Beowulf, which is totally unrecognizable as English in the original.

reply to post by twestjr79


The United States can go back further than you think.Heres a site for you t check out on the pueblos!


UTE Mountain

reply to post by Byrd


Yeah, that is one problem, that native Americans comprise a rather small portion of the world's population. Still, a lot of history books don't even seem to mention them at all, or just keep them in the background. I don't really expect a general text to go into all the major native tribes, but at least some kind of information about how they interacted with Europeans, for instance, would be nice. I suppose people write about what they know.

The first world history course I took, though, spent probably half the year just on Greeks/Romans, which was interesting, but I think we had a single class on both Americas combined, for the whole semester. Again, people teach what they know, and that particular prof is a very respected scholar in classical (Greek/Roman) history.

It does make me wonder, though, if you take a world history course at an Eastern university, what would you get? I studied in Canada, so I got pretty close to what you Americans did, just in meters and kilograms instead of feet and pounds :p

What you say about there not being any American History before the 1600's or so, is, I guess, because the term "history" is taken literally.
It simply refers to writing.
Prehistory is before writing, history is after writing existed in any given culture.
That is why some cultures have history dating waaay back, because they already had some type of writing.
Others, even if they had a very rich oral tradition, buildings, religious beliefs, still did not have any writing.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Okay. I do live in the most heavily populated native american area in the nation. I have spent 10 years studying the culture. That i threw out a random number like 1/100th(which the actual percentage would be lower), has nothing to do with the POINT of what I am saying.

Again, you estimate that no more than 1/100th of all archaeological sites are protected.

I would like to see what number you are using for the total of all archaeological sites in the U.S. Do you even know this number?
Are you somehow including sites that have yet to be discovered?

Are you aware that all archaeological sites on public land in the U.S. are protected by Federal Law?

Do you know that any sites found through development must be studied and catalogued and all pertinent materials removed for study before any development can continue, under penalty of federal law?

Would you have the government take private lands because they contain archaeological sites, even if the sites are not being disturbed in any way?

What exactly is your point here?

You must be aware that the looting of archaeological sites began with the Europeans in Africa and the Middle East, right?

Have you no tears for Egypt, or is it all about Native Americans?

I have no guilt. I own no arrowheads, and never have.

Can you say the same?

Harte



[edit on 5/1/2009 by Harte]

[edit on 5/1/2009 by Harte]

I put a couple of threads together talking about Ancient America and pre Colombian cultures together. They may solve some of what you're asking about.

Enjoy


Ancient America Rocked!

Olmec Giant Stone Heads Mystery Solved?

reply to post by Harte


Again you are caught up on the random number I threw out. When you consider the amount of this "history" that was intentionally destroy, the argument that the number would be higher than that goes right out the window. But that is truly neither here nor there.

The fact of the matter is, in the modern history of this country, the native history has been largely ignored, and has been lost forever. That is fact, not opinion.

I'm not sure why the numbers are the thing that you all are caught on here...

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

The fact of the matter is, in the modern history of this country, the native history has been largely ignored, and has been lost forever. That is fact, not opinion.

You could say the same thing about South and Central America, Egypt, the Middle East and anywhere else Colonialism has had its effect.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I'm not sure why the numbers are the thing that you all are caught on here...

Because of your statement that nobody is protecting archaeological sites in America. This is simply not the case.

Archaeological sites in the U.S. enjoy far greater protection that similar sites in most other countries.

The only unprotected sites in the U.S. are ones on undeveloped private property. Even those are protected, if development of the property is planned.

As was already stated, most of the "lost" history of Native America is "lost" because it was oral. Not that that is a good reason, but when you compare it to the "lost" history of the Maya Civilization, it's not as dastardly.

The history of the Maya was literally destroyed by Spanish conquerors. This history was not oral, but written. IOW, it had to be puposefully collected and burned in order to become "lost."

Harte

Okay, and your point is? The OP asked about AMERICAN HISTORY, and the fact is, most of it has been lost or ignored. All of your talk and defending doesnt change that fact.

honestly, it seems as though you are defending something, as opposed to looking at the facts.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic


Okay, and your point is? The OP asked about AMERICAN HISTORY, and the fact is, most of it has been lost or ignored. All of your talk and defending doesnt change that fact.

honestly, it seems as though you are defending something, as opposed to looking at the facts.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

If you re-read, you'll see that what I am doing is asking for facts.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic


Okay, and your point is? The OP asked about AMERICAN HISTORY, and the fact is, most of it has been lost or ignored. All of your talk and defending doesnt change that fact.

honestly, it seems as though you are defending something, as opposed to looking at the facts.

[edit on 5/1/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

If you re-read, you'll see that what I am doing is asking for facts.

Harte

No, what you have done is challenge my position because I threw out a random number, yet you have yet to show anything to refute it. You talk about protected land. You talk about other countries.

But you wont adress the fact that, as was my origional contention, as a whole, this country has largely ignored the native history.

Like I said, reeks of someone on the defensive.

reply to post by twestjr79


Ill try to answer your questions, without getting distracted.
Ill try not to ramble.

My question is didn't the natives have history?? built buildings??? why did the move around so much?? why didn't they become civilizaived ( build homes and communitys)

They did all over the americas.
They were civilized, they were just behind the rest of the world due to the north american calamity of 12k years ago. The event set the people of the new world back several thousand years, and more so in north america than in south america and central america.
In north amerrica for the most part ,they also didnt get past a tribalism.
Writing comes about through the needs of governance, trade or organized religion. Since they didnt develop governments or organized religion they didn have a need for writing, so no records were left.

There were only a few tribes in north america that were truely nomadic, most stayed put and lived an early agrarian lifestyle. They raised a variety of crops, depending on where they lived.



The people of north america lived a mixed variety of lifestyles, as did the peoples of central and south america, as did the people of the rest of the world.
The americas were behind the rest of the world in development by about 3000 -4000 years. Before anybody jumps on me, the advanced cultures of the new world at the time of the conquest, were comparable to what was going on in the near east 4000 years earlier.
In the south and central america when the europeans arrived there were powerful nation states and primitve tribes people living side by side, just like in europe and asia 4000 years earlier.
The more developed societies had developed writing and left records, but sadly virtually all of these early records were destroyed by european religous zelots(missionaries), because they were works of the devil.
The density of development in the maya civilization is only now coming to light due to advances in sensing technology. There are cities all through the jungles of the yucatan, hidden by the dense growth.


There are planty of old site in the US, the various cliff dwellings and peubloes of the south west, the mounds and terraces of the river peoples of the midwest.



All you need to do is go to a library, a place with actual books, not the internet's pseudo info, and you will find more information on american history than you could ever read in a lifetime.

reply to post by SLAYER69
Thanks for the links I'll check them out

]




They were civilized, they were just behind the rest of the world due to the north american calamity of 12k years ago.
Can you explain what the North American Calamity is Thanks

reply to post by Gawdzilla


www.greatserpentmound.com
it is a website about the serpent mounds these indians in ohio built up.

I would say because of INDOCTRINATION.


"Don't think, just wake & serve"

Good thread. A lot of people will respond.

There is a rumor that Lincoln tried to protect some Indian mounds near Indiana and that he gave a speech referring to mound in Indiana that held great remains and which are now gone, plowed under.

The history of this land is buried. You will see no voices as raised or insistent as them what defend the colonizing instinct. In fact, when one's people have a history so fragile and recorded on animal bones, it is obvious that actual history gets written by the winners. The fight itself scars all parties, but clearly some do 'win' and most, lose.

Maybe that is the true tale of history before our time? We surely have the chance right now in 2009 to change how history itself, is viewed. That is to say, 200 years ago, somebody knew we'd be in this spot, looking back to identify our origins. It is foolish to assume that there is not a "cover story" which conceals "the truth".

But if a group of people have a centuries-old non-materialistic society that didn't need Karl Marks to design it, then those people and their whole society, must die. Real paradise requires many machines and bureaucrats, according to the current American and French and Dutch and Russian and Spanish paradigms, etc.

Americans/Atlanteans prior to 1500, would disagree; "Paradise" for humans. does not require machines. I allude to Mr. Bacon, whose fellows and whose Queen had set their royal sights on America long ago. And was he not also raised by his time and place? Surely Columbus wasn't too different, and also was a lover of Baconian recipes.

The machine of historical analysis hasn't been handed to the people, but someday, it will be. We will be given more data than we can imagine, and we will have to come to terms with the full scope of humanity and what it has done to itself. Sorting through ATS is probably akin to sorting through about 03% of what's really happened on Earth. The pressure will never let up in our lifetimes. We will constantly be asked to reexamine history in light of new data, and there will always be obfuscatory elements (usually unwitting drones) who prevent that re-examination of history.


[edit on 5-5-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by twestjr79


According to the theory, which seems sound to this layman, there was a catastrophic meteor strike in North America which caused huge fires and associated problems... If I'm remembering it correctly.

reply to post by twestjr79


Something happend in north america 12k years ago that affected not only NA but impacted the entire planet.

There is very good evidence that there was a sizable celestial body impact over the laurentian ice sheet of north america.
Im sure I'll atract the detractors of this notion like flies to S.
The event caused the die off of, something like 80%, of all animals larger than a dog in north america.
It caused the dissapearance of the clovis culture, and the ensuing climatological effects had an impact on the rest of the world.
The depressed populations of humans in north america, struggled just to survive in the new world while thier counter parts, in the old world, laid the foundations of civilization.
While the north americans were still living a nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle, the people of the near east and asia were inventing pottery and weaving, they were starting to practice animal husbandry and agriculture.
These cultural advancements lead to the foundation of small villiages the larger ones then finally on to cities.
While some new world cultures flourished and were quite advanced in some respects, they were for the most part, several thaousand years behind old world cultures in almost all aspects of civilization.
Agriculture was a relative new comer to the new world, with the earliest antecedant to corn only going back 5k years.
weaving and pottery followed shortly.
In meso america 5k years ago they were on the level of a near eastern civilization 8k years ago.