Questioning Christianity

Hey, just wandering, I've been brought up in christianity and the older I get the less sense this religion is making. So if this religion is the truth will God make me burn forever just because I am confused about a religion?

Oh yeah, and will everyone who has been brought up in something else that they believe in with all of their heart and soul burn forever? This doesn't sound like a very loving God to me.

It doesn't make sense. Also filled with lies, for your entertainment I will provide my favorite one.

Matthew 2:14-15
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.


The actual prophecy Matthew refers to:

Hosea 1
1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
2 As they called them,
So they went from them;
They sacrificed to the Baals,
And burned incense to carved images.
3 “ I taught Ephraim to walk,
Taking them by their arms;
But they did not know that I healed them.
4 I drew them with gentle cords,
With bands of love,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.
5 “ He shall not return to the land of Egypt;
But the Assyrian shall be his king,
Because they refused to repent.
6 And the sword shall slash in his cities,
Devour his districts,
And consume them,
Because of their own counsels.


That's right, it isn't even a prophecy, and it has nothing to do with Jesus. It refers to Israel.


Oh yeah, Hell is a completely Christian concept. Jews had absolutely no concept of hell, and the word Hell used in the Old Testament is a mistranslation.
It was confused with Sheol which actually means grave. The writers of the scriptures at that time did not believe in an after life, and that all rewards from god through faith came in this life. For the Jews it was just you die and fade to black (until the ressurection in the end of days)

I am really confused on whether or not the old and new testament have anything to do with each other, I mean you have a God who is constantly striking people down, and then you have another God who loves everything and believes everyone deserves another chance.

reply to post by CaveMan TeK


I always found that confusing as well and another thing that always bugs me about the bible is that in those days god seemed to want to have a chat with everyone.. what happened? cat got his tongue?

reply to post by bluewagon


Yeah I know what you mean, God hasn't made any great show for like 2000 years, surely he can expect us to be a little questionable about our religion.

2 Thessalonians 2:11

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
========================================

Don't play into satan's hands - doubting is exactly what he wants us to do. If you've read the Bible, you'll know that he knows full well he only has a short time to sway as many people as he can away from Jesus, and God.

Forget Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, black, white, Democrat, Republican, etc...... all of us are going to have to choose which side we are going to serve: God or the "world" (mankind).

As usual, 'mankind' has screwed things up over the last hundreds of years, and today probably more so. People today are being taught/brainwashed into believing that it's ok to steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, murder, homosexuality, new age religion, no religion, perpetrate extreme blasphemym, etc. Mankind has, as the saying goes, gotten too big for his own britches with his prideful thinking.

Enter Jesus Christ.

God has already had to remove all evildoers from this planet once before, using a global flood - lest we forget Noah.
When Jesus returns, that is exactly what is going to take place again. Only it won't be a flood this time but fire and brimstone, just as God sent to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
If you need scientific/physical proof of this click HERE

We need to step out of our 'manmade' minds and get in the "God-made" minds in order to see this entire situation from His point of view.

He created this planet, and us, and what have we done - turned it into a 'den of thieves'. Doing what we want, when we want, to who we want and for whatever reason we want. We have all made our lives into being about "me, me, me".

Can you say "pride" and "vanity"?

Mankind has revised "God", twisted God's scriptures, denounced Him totally, blasphemed Him and His Son in some of the most vile ways....... all done to suit ourselves, and our sinful lives.

People can, and will (because mankind thinks we rule the world), believe in whatever/whoever they choose to - but don't lose the fact that regardless of what "mankind" chooses to believe in, or not believe in, isn't going to change God's plans at all, not even one tiny iota.

Satan knows he is running short on time - mankind has a choice to make, and with the way prophecy is being fulfilled so quickly these days, I would advise to choose very wisely.

I'm still confused on why God would burn people forever because they were raised differently?

Originally posted by CaveMan TeK
I'm still confused on why God would burn people forever because they were raised differently?

He doesn't. The holy spirit speaks in "tongues", which means it can speak to people in a way they understand. It gives understanding of things which is universal to all people/consciousness/souls. Kind of like how every culture understands basic math. Different symbols can be used, same understanding under it.

You don't need the bible for it, but in my experience the bible describes what happens and gives understanding of it.

The way people express that changes, just like a math expression changes from 1+1=2 to 4+2=6, and both are true expressions of an understanding. It's the understanding that is important, not the symbols/idols/messanger that expresses them - to express the understanding was their purpose and reason.

As for Christianity, the confusion comes form Paul. Stick to Jesus, and forget about Paul is my best advice. Paul's writings make up nearly half the NT and he quotes Jesus only 1 time, while contradicting Jesus many other times. Christianity under Paul is the religion warned about by Jesus, which came after his death, through a false prophet(paul), is in the name of Jesus, but does many terrible things like kill those who didn't go along, and won't be happy until it's the 1 world religion. The church and christianity fulfills the prophecies for those with understanding. Same people who murdered Jesus.

[edit on 29-4-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Don't play into satan's hands - doubting is exactly what he wants us to do. If you've read the Bible, you'll know that he knows full well he only has a short time to sway as many people as he can away from Jesus, and God.

False, doubts are healthy. Doubts bring about questions, and to question is to seek. And for those who seek will find, those who knock will have doors opened to them and so forth.

How else does someone seek except by asking questions? Why would you tell people they should fear receiving a serpent if they ask for a fish?

Doubt away! Doubt it all, doubt all that men have told you. Doubt it all, trust no man and then you will see truth. Only the "wicked" want to keep your ignorant and fearful of asking questions.

www.biblegateway.com...

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

...

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

Notice it says "accept", how long will you "accept" the persons of the wicked? That means how long will you accept what people tell you as being the truth rather than finding out for yourself. How long will you allow someone to preach to you 1+1=2 before you decide to learn how to add for yourself. Until you learn how to gain that understanding. Because those who accept and don't ask questions do not understand and do not learn, no different than a kid who didn't ask about something he didn't understand in school.

www.biblegateway.com...

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

The truth will be plain to those who understand and right to those who find knowledge. And if you have doubts then it means you lack knowledge and you lack understanding and that needs to be addressed. Then when you are seeking these things, you will be seeking that which is more valuable than anything on earth, wisdom and knowledge.

If you go on down in that same verse, you'll see it says those who love and seek god will find him early, and he will fill their treasures(with wisdom and understanding).

To ignore doubts and to refuse to acknowledge a lack of understanding is basically the same thing as refusing the "instruction" of the father, refusing his will.




[edit on 29-4-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
2 Thessalonians 2:11

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
========================================

Don't play into satan's hands - doubting is exactly what he wants us to do. If you've read the Bible, you'll know that he knows full well he only has a short time to sway as many people as he can away from Jesus, and God.

Forget Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, black, white, Democrat, Republican, etc...... all of us are going to have to choose which side we are going to serve: God or the "world" (mankind).

As usual, 'mankind' has screwed things up over the last hundreds of years, and today probably more so. People today are being taught/brainwashed into believing that it's ok to steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, murder, homosexuality, new age religion, no religion, perpetrate extreme blasphemym, etc. Mankind has, as the saying goes, gotten too big for his own britches with his prideful thinking.

Enter Jesus Christ.

God has already had to remove all evildoers from this planet once before, using a global flood - lest we forget Noah.
When Jesus returns, that is exactly what is going to take place again. Only it won't be a flood this time but fire and brimstone, just as God sent to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
If you need scientific/physical proof of this click HERE

We need to step out of our 'manmade' minds and get in the "God-made" minds in order to see this entire situation from His point of view.

He created this planet, and us, and what have we done - turned it into a 'den of thieves'. Doing what we want, when we want, to who we want and for whatever reason we want. We have all made our lives into being about "me, me, me".

Can you say "pride" and "vanity"?

Mankind has revised "God", twisted God's scriptures, denounced Him totally, blasphemed Him and His Son in some of the most vile ways....... all done to suit ourselves, and our sinful lives.

People can, and will (because mankind thinks we rule the world), believe in whatever/whoever they choose to - but don't lose the fact that regardless of what "mankind" chooses to believe in, or not believe in, isn't going to change God's plans at all, not even one tiny iota.

Satan knows he is running short on time - mankind has a choice to make, and with the way prophecy is being fulfilled so quickly these days, I would advise to choose very wisely.

You should see my first post, before you spout off with your delusions. How can we trust a scripute that is mistranslated, obscured and twisted? Oh right.. We can't trust such a thing.

Now, I am going to make a prophecy in this post right now. I prophecy that you will read my post, read my evidence and then deny it based on faith and reject any logic or reason.

And like the biblical writers if my prophecy is not fulfilled, I will try to edit it out before anyone notices that I was wrong.

I rejected Christianity because it doesn't make sense. I figure if God spent such a large amount of time making the universe, world, then surely his logic must be flaw-less.

Now if you want to refute me, and say I'm being lead by Satan.. Then I will take you down the logic part.

There's nothing wrong with questioning religion, it's natural I think.

Just find what makes sense for you, don't look to others for your religion. Look to yourself and believe in what you think is right. Not what some book or preacher says is right.

It doesn't make sense. Also filled with lies, for your entertainment I will provide my favorite one.

Matthew 2:14-15
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.


The actual prophecy Matthew refers to:

Hosea 1
1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
2 As they called them,
So they went from them;
They sacrificed to the Baals,
And burned incense to carved images.
3 “ I taught Ephraim to walk,
Taking them by their arms;
But they did not know that I healed them.
4 I drew them with gentle cords,
With bands of love,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.
5 “ He shall not return to the land of Egypt;
But the Assyrian shall be his king,
Because they refused to repent.
6 And the sword shall slash in his cities,
Devour his districts,
And consume them,
Because of their own counsels.


That's right, it isn't even a prophecy, and it has nothing to do with Jesus. It refers to Israel.

So as to the quotation in Matthew 2:14-15 of Hosea 11:1, the son mentioned there is indeed Israel, but then also Jesus. The comparison between our Lord, the first born of Israel, and Israel as a whole has parallels elsewhere in scripture (cf. Is.42, where in vv.1-7 we see Jesus shining through as "My Servant", though Israel is clearly the "servant" by the time we get to verse 19; also compare Is.49:1-7, where the passage is largely referring to the Messiah, although the recipient of the prophecy is called “Israel” in v.3). In your set of verses, "My Son" would not have been realized to be Jesus by Hosea, but Matthew under the inspiration of the Spirit recognizes that not only is this passage to be applied historically to Israel, but also prophetically to the Messiah. Separating the two in prophecy is often difficult in any case since, in the case of true Israel, Jesus and Israel are “one” in precisely the same way that we His Church are “one body with Him”.

Oh yeah, Hell is a completely Christian concept. Jews had absolutely no concept of hell, and the word Hell used in the Old Testament is a mistranslation.
It was confused with Sheol which actually means grave. The writers of the scriptures at that time did not believe in an after life, and that all rewards from god through faith came in this life. For the Jews it was just you die and fade to black (until the ressurection in the end of days)

Before the cross, everyone who died went to Hades, called Sheol in Hebrew. There they went to one of two places. One was called Paradise or Abraham’s bosom. It was a place of comfort where those who died in faith of a coming Redeemer went. The other place is called Torments and it’s where unbelievers go to await their final judgment. This is all described in Luke 16:19-31, the Story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Jesus promised one of the men being crucified with Him that they’d go to Paradise together that day. (Luke 23:43)

After Jesus rose again He ascended into Heaven and took those from Paradise with Him. From then on every believer who dies goes straight to Heaven to be with Jesus, but unbelievers still go to Torments. In Rev. 20:11-15 we see the Great White Throne judgment where unbelievers will be resurrected to face their judgment and final disposition. This will happen at the end of the Millennium. Verse 13 says that Hades will give up its dead, meaning that unbelievers from all ages who’ve been waiting there will finally be sent to their eternal punishment.

Now, I am going to make a prophecy in this post right now. I prophecy that you will read my post, read my evidence and then deny it based on faith and reject any logic or reason.

I don't think I'll do that at all. My responces are above. For the rest that think the bible is confusing. Try excepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. You then become Holy Spirt filled, because the bible is ment to be read while you are spirit filled. If you get confused over a verse simple pray on it, or come back to it a lil-bit later after you have grown in the spirit. How do you grow in the spirit? Try reading your bible abit each day, pray asking for more knowledge and understanding, sit with like minded people and grow off of their confo's. Hope I helped clear up this very comon confusion.

Hey, just wandering, I've been brought up in christianity and the older I get the less sense this religion is making. So if this religion is the truth will God make me burn forever just because I am confused about a religion?

No he wont, just pray for guidence, tell God/Jesus you are confused and need help.

As to the 2nd part of your question its clearly spelled out for you in the bible. I'd post it here but dont feel like fighting with everyone about it. If you want to know flat out, just message me.

This doesn't sound like a very loving God to me.

Keep in mind that it's satan twisting everyone/everything. And lets not forget free will. Why would God give everyone such a great reward if they dont do anything to deserve it? Why would you pay someone 300.00 for a half days work when that is the wage of a full days work? You wouldnt cause its not fair to those who worked the hole day through. And lastly its not like its hard to earn your reward, heaven, ever lasting life. Just beleive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, repent of your sins "you dont have to name each one." along the lines of "Lord please forgive me of my sins." Read your bible abit each day, pray before ya go to sleep. I mean is it really that hard!!?? Is it really???? And thats all you have to do to be saved.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by dthwraith]

Originally posted by dthwraith
Keep in mind that it's satan twisting everyone/everything. And lets not forget free will. Why would God give everyone such a great reward if they dont do anything to deserve it? Why would you pay someone 300.00 for a half days work when that is the wage of a full days work? You wouldnt cause its not fair to those who worked the hole day through. And lastly its not like its hard to earn your reward, heaven, ever lasting life. Just beleive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, repent of your sins "you dont have to name each one." along the lines of "Lord please forgive me of my sins." Read your bible abit each day, pray before ya go to sleep. I mean is it really that hard!!?? Is it really???? And thats all you have to do to be saved.

None of that stuff is true at all, and Jesus never says anything you mention. Please show me where Jesus says anything like that.

The easiest "proof" what you claim is false, and what the church claims is false comes from the rich man who comes to Jesus. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich man the same things you say? Why does Jesus say it is easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven?

"Just beleive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour,"

Jesus doesn't say this. Jesus says:

John 14:

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

You tell him to read the bible as if it is some authority. Jesus says:

Matthew 7

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Scribes are those who write scriptures, aka the bible.

A sin is a mistake, to repent has nothing at all to do with "naming the sin" of any enumeration. To "repent" is to fix your mistakes, and after you have fixed your mistakes you are automatically forgiven because it is no longer a mistake you will make.

The man who does something, asks for forgiveness and then does it again never asked for forgiveness in the first place, all that man asked for was for his sins to be ignored. If a man cheats on his wife, he is not sorry he did it if he does it again, he is sorry he got caught and he is sorry for what he may reap as a result. There is a difference.

Christianity = anti-christ religion. Church/synagogue of Satan. They do all the things Jesus was against. All that you say is just a marketing ploy to get "new members", no different than the pharisees who would travel the ocean for a single convert, just as Christianity does today. Telling people "it's easy", when Jesus says only a few will make it. Telling people just need to "accept" Jesus, while ignoring all that is said about what those who truly believe will do. Telling people come get their "free gift" when Jesus tells them to walk the path like the rich man. Where as Jesus tells people they must seek the truth, Christianity is all about accepting the truth as men give it to you.

How long will you accept the dogma of the wicked, while telling people to fear and loathe the understanding, wisdom and knowledge of the father? How long will you fear seeking such things yourself, and deny those who do seek?

None of that stuff is true at all, and Jesus never says anything you mention. Please show me where Jesus says anything like that.

Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God. John 3:3
Born again = except Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matt 18:3

Except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish. Luke 13:3,5

And this is just off the top of my head.

Theres nothing wrong with breaking things down to simple english for someone to understand more easily.

The man who does something, asks for forgiveness and then does it again never asked for forgiveness in the first place, all that man asked for was for his sins to be ignored. If a man cheats on his wife, he is not sorry he did it if he does it again, he is sorry he got caught and he is sorry for what he may reap as a result. There is a difference.

That is very very correct. To add with what you have said. But keep in mind its sin that makes us do these things. To repent washes away that sin and we should strive not to do that sin again. Notice the word strive. Meaning to make an effort, does this mean you'll be able to stop completly? No/Yes. It depends on whats going on in your life. Sometimes its very easy to walk away from a sin, sometimes are lives are so wraped up in the sin that it takes time to stop doing that sin. Until you are completly able to walk away from that sin you keep repenting for it, and through prayer ask God to help you.

Christianity = anti-christ religion. Church/synagogue of Satan. They do all the things Jesus was against.

So going to church is against what Jesus tought? So sitting with like minded people is wrong even though its in the bible? Mind that you dont even have to go to church to do this.
Giving your first fruit "tithing" is against what God Said? hmms odd.
Worshiping your God is against what he tought? hms odd.
Sorry the pharisees did what Jesus tought against. Something thats so simple to understand people always try to twist. People think thats it so easy that it must be hard, or you must be lieing. I simple don't know what else to say to you. If you dont want to follow God then dont dude, if you dont want to trust in the bible then dont. I came to a Relgion/Faith based forum to respond to such questions. All you do is troll these threads poping off about how this is wrong and how thats wrong. How christiany is the anti christ religion. Your a simple minded person who wouldnt hear the truth is Jesus stood in front of you and told you it. I will not cast my pearls before swine lest they trample them.
[edit on 30-4-2009 by dthwraith]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by dthwraith]

[edit on 30-4-2009 by dthwraith]

Originally posted by dthwraith

It doesn't make sense. Also filled with lies, for your entertainment I will provide my favorite one.

Matthew 2:14-15
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.


The actual prophecy Matthew refers to:

Hosea 1
1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him,
And out of Egypt I called My son.
2 As they called them,
So they went from them;
They sacrificed to the Baals,
And burned incense to carved images.
3 “ I taught Ephraim to walk,
Taking them by their arms;
But they did not know that I healed them.
4 I drew them with gentle cords,
With bands of love,
And I was to them as those who take the yoke from their neck.
I stooped and fed them.
5 “ He shall not return to the land of Egypt;
But the Assyrian shall be his king,
Because they refused to repent.
6 And the sword shall slash in his cities,
Devour his districts,
And consume them,
Because of their own counsels.


That's right, it isn't even a prophecy, and it has nothing to do with Jesus. It refers to Israel.

So as to the quotation in Matthew 2:14-15 of Hosea 11:1, the son mentioned there is indeed Israel, but then also Jesus. The comparison between our Lord, the first born of Israel, and Israel as a whole has parallels elsewhere in scripture (cf. Is.42, where in vv.1-7 we see Jesus shining through as "My Servant", though Israel is clearly the "servant" by the time we get to verse 19; also compare Is.49:1-7, where the passage is largely referring to the Messiah, although the recipient of the prophecy is called “Israel” in v.3). In your set of verses, "My Son" would not have been realized to be Jesus by Hosea, but Matthew under the inspiration of the Spirit recognizes that not only is this passage to be applied historically to Israel, but also prophetically to the Messiah. Separating the two in prophecy is often difficult in any case since, in the case of true Israel, Jesus and Israel are “one” in precisely the same way that we His Church are “one body with Him”.

So Jesus, is also Israel fullfilled something that wasn't even a prophecy? Right. I think we call that twisted logic. Try accepting some critical thinking into your life. Nothing in Hosea 11 would even hint that they refer to Jesus.

Originally posted by dthwraith

Oh yeah, Hell is a completely Christian concept. Jews had absolutely no concept of hell, and the word Hell used in the Old Testament is a mistranslation.
It was confused with Sheol which actually means grave. The writers of the scriptures at that time did not believe in an after life, and that all rewards from god through faith came in this life. For the Jews it was just you die and fade to black (until the ressurection in the end of days)

Before the cross, everyone who died went to Hades, called Sheol in Hebrew. There they went to one of two places. One was called Paradise or Abraham’s bosom. It was a place of comfort where those who died in faith of a coming Redeemer went. The other place is called Torments and it’s where unbelievers go to await their final judgment. This is all described in Luke 16:19-31, the Story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Jesus promised one of the men being crucified with Him that they’d go to Paradise together that day. (Luke 23:43)

After Jesus rose again He ascended into Heaven and took those from Paradise with Him. From then on every believer who dies goes straight to Heaven to be with Jesus, but unbelievers still go to Torments. In Rev. 20:11-15 we see the Great White Throne judgment where unbelievers will be resurrected to face their judgment and final disposition. This will happen at the end of the Millennium. Verse 13 says that Hades will give up its dead, meaning that unbelievers from all ages who’ve been waiting there will finally be sent to their eternal punishment.

So you're using quotes from the New Testament to verify that the Old Testament says something that it doesn't say.

Can you pick out where in the OLD TESTATMENT, it speaks of Jesus, Jesus Christ, or Jesus Christ dieing on the cross. (And yes, it has to specificially say JESUS CHRIST) Your break away jewish sect as a religion completely twists jewish prophecy.

Originally posted by Miraj

Originally posted by dthwraith

Oh yeah, Hell is a completely Christian concept. Jews had absolutely no concept of hell, and the word Hell used in the Old Testament is a mistranslation.
It was confused with Sheol which actually means grave. The writers of the scriptures at that time did not believe in an after life, and that all rewards from god through faith came in this life. For the Jews it was just you die and fade to black (until the ressurection in the end of days)

Before the cross, everyone who died went to Hades, called Sheol in Hebrew. There they went to one of two places. One was called Paradise or Abraham’s bosom. It was a place of comfort where those who died in faith of a coming Redeemer went. The other place is called Torments and it’s where unbelievers go to await their final judgment. This is all described in Luke 16:19-31, the Story of the Rich man and Lazarus. Jesus promised one of the men being crucified with Him that they’d go to Paradise together that day. (Luke 23:43)

After Jesus rose again He ascended into Heaven and took those from Paradise with Him. From then on every believer who dies goes straight to Heaven to be with Jesus, but unbelievers still go to Torments. In Rev. 20:11-15 we see the Great White Throne judgment where unbelievers will be resurrected to face their judgment and final disposition. This will happen at the end of the Millennium. Verse 13 says that Hades will give up its dead, meaning that unbelievers from all ages who’ve been waiting there will finally be sent to their eternal punishment.

So you're using quotes from the New Testament to verify that the Old Testament says something that it doesn't say.

Can you pick out where in the OLD TESTATMENT, it speaks of Jesus, Jesus Christ, or Jesus Christ dieing on the cross. (And yes, it has to specificially say JESUS CHRIST) Your break away jewish sect as a religion completely twists jewish prophecy.

No I can not, no where in the old testament does it clearly say Jesus Christ.