Perle Says France 'No Longer An Ally'

Originally posted by Bob88

But, they did give us a bit of help many, many years earlier with those pesky Redcoats, lol.

Yeah, but not because they wanted to help the "American Patriot Cause." They did not like the American Colonies ideas about how to govern. They jumped in so they could poke England in the eye. The French and British were bitter colonial rivals and the French were lending us a hand only in an attempt to weaken England; thus giving them the opprotunity to spread their colonies further and gain an upper hand in European diplomacy.

Who'd a thunk it? Hehe...

HO sorry, I forgotten...
WE CAN'T HELP YOU...
WE JUST WENT TO SELL MIRAGES F1-CR, EXOCET II and MISTRAL HAAM/HASM TO IRAQ !

AND A FRENCH PROVERB SAY :

Ain't no PERLE in every oyster




[Edited on 6-2-2003 by Nans DESMICHELS]

Originally posted by Bob88

I don't know whether to fault Chirac for being against a war - or admire him for being against a war. It certainly appears the public opinion in France is 'against the war'

NOBODY have to admire this man, NOBODY.

He's not against any war. Remember the Yougoslavia war. He was yet president and he didn't care to bomb Yougoslavia. He was bombing them because we were helping muslims against christians and that France didn't have any big deal or big biz with the Serbs,so, it wasn't a problem and the French " opinion " was pro-war.

Now that we have to bomb a so-called muslim country ( before, Saddam was anti-muslim, and he's playing now the muslim card just to have some support from the real muslims nations ), that's different.The French " opinion " is now anti-war.

France don't care about Irak and war with Irak. France cares for his biz.

Indeed, the French have never been troubled by altruism. and, they have been governed by crooks since the fall of the monarchy (if not before) and they do rather seem to find the villainy of their Presidents no big deal - in fact the odd mistress, illegitimate child, Mafia connection, banking scandal tends to help the President.
But I'd question the "no guts" assertion. They may have had a lot of them kicked out of them after three disastrous wars against Germany in a single life-time; but the military history of France is as full of gallantry as you'll get - they just were on the losing side too often.

I don't want france to support us. I want France to realize that if it weren't for us that their president wouldn't be Jaques Chirac he would be Gunther Von Behoven and they would be speaking German and eating sauerkraut right now. Let them forget about D-Day we won't. Let them forget what occupation was like and what regaining that freedom was like and who bought that freedom and paid in blood. For all these things I don't want their support, I just want them to shut their GD mouths. Yes that's right don't lift a finger you ungrateful bastards just shut your pie hole and keep it closed. I would like to think that the price The U.S of A.has paid has at least bought us that much.

Germany is another one - Them, like S. Korea, should make good on their rhetoric and ask the US to leave. I'd be happy to not have all those soldiers of ours on the DMZ when the dear leader finally goes completely insane.

I always find these "What would of happened"debates rather silly.France lies on an historical Social Faultline.If the French people hadn't of fought as hard as they did in both World Wars on their own soil then arguably there would have been no Europe left for the US to rescue ,when they eventually got fed of making a profit out of a World War and finally discovered any moral misgivings about Hitler and joined in, and so arguably the USA would of had to have fought a united Europe further along the line.Comments along the lines that the French are cowards just shows total ignorance of European and World History.
Both Chirac and Shroeder are articulating the views of the majority of their own people and the majority of Europes population and the majority of world opinion against the desires of a militaristic superpower.And for this some call them cowards?

Bob, I think you'll be aware that I'm with you on overseas deployment. you're not thanked -why stay. Of course, one then asks "Yet you do stay. why?"
I fancy J-B that I'm largely with you too -I suspect the intemperance of your posting was not unconnected with the groundless drivel at the head of page 2.
I'd not rush to ascribe any nobility to France's initial entry into either world war; but the French people paid dear and even the British can have no idea, ultimately, of what the French suffered.
Again, let us not confuse the people with their masters leaders ( the two are not always synonymous).

I think that by and large that the French people are good folk..But i think that they have a hard time getting any one with any real back bone into office..(as does many nations)..And becusae of this the common people have suffered..

Boomslang

YOU AMERICANS :
WITH NO HISTORY AND CULTURE, NO PAST EXCEPT YOUR EUROPEANS ROOTS MAKE ME SICK !!!
WE DON'T HAVE TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT YOUR WW-II MARSHALL KILOWATTS PLANS
We could let U fight versus japanese and chinese countries... BUT...
You need us, EUROPEANS, as customers (GUEST),
And remenber, GUEST US ALLWAY KING !!!

Our french president, maybe, is not the best president worlwide... BUT HE's BETTER THAN BERLUSCONI, LEPEN and BABYBUSH...

Our "CRY" for USA ?
We don't have to help you... We helped you in you INDEPENDANCE DAY... (LaFayette)!
You helped us, but one day, notes gone with the wind...

And actually : FRANCE IS BETTER WITH GERMANY THAN WITH US$ ...

IRAQ is your problem...

The land that we are building, europeans, E.E.C. is actually our most important problem :
SEE : INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, after september 11 2001, was AGAINST WARS.
THESE WARS, THESE BOMBINGS CAUSED SEPT, 11,
2001...

As palestinians have to fight with stones against TANKS,
3rd peoples have to fight with your own weapons, US$...

FRANCE and GERMANY and AUSTRIA and SWISS and A MAJOR PART OF UNITED NATIONS are against US imperialism politics!

UNDERSTAND and TAKE A STAND..!

In some ways this is a storm in a teacup.

Firstly france is only wanted for its political voice not for any military strength

Secondly France is a Euroarabic nation, its sub populations so entrenched in its society that it will follow any anti israel, pro palestianian anti western line that keeps its signifigent moroccan and arabic people happy.

Thirdly Europe itself sees war with different psychological and emotive terms to Americans. Afterall they have a very strong social memory of the terrible effects of war, and it creates in many Europeans a kneejerk reaction against any mention of war.

I know this from going to Germany during the Gulf War, When I left the west we were watching it on TV with avid interest, the latest mini series to hit our screens.

In germany they were in churches praying - enmass, protesting on the streets in popular well orgianized marches, kids were passing anti war petitions house to house, pub discussions were around the war. Its struck the people at a psychologically deeper level than the countries who have not lived through it.

So for the europeans war - in its definition - is something to be feared and avoided. Whereas for America and similar countries who never really suffered to the same extent, war is more abstract and distant and as a result more of a possible option.

Be happy if the French organise the food

I have nothing against the French, I love food and wine - how could I not like these people?

BUT-
I do however 'LOL' when I hear someone putting down American culture and talk about American Imperialism. Culture? America didn't exist in the days of Michelangelo. If it did, perhaps he would have been an American. How 'bout Americans like Twain, Thoreau to name a few. Remember - the US is a young country - Ok. And there's loads of modern day American culture - maybe you wouldn�t call it that - but your using the 'net (an American contribution) with American software, watching Hollywood movies while listening to Eminem and eating McDonalds, etc, etc. We must be forcing that upon you with our Imperialism, huh?


[Edited on 6-2-2003 by Bob88]

Whist visiting Paris in 2000, I found the French people to be arrogant, unhelpful, rude and antagonistic towards anyone who were not French.

Examples:

The French were very willing to charge me $7 for a cup of coffee at one of their quaint sidewalk cafes and $30 for a Thai meal�..but also consider that:

I was lost at 4:30 AM and walking around in circles trying to find my hotel. I showed my hotel key (with hotel address) to several people � they all ignored me. After paying a taxi driver to take me to my hotel, he took me to a dead end street and said, �Walk that way�.

Whilst in a bar near the Arch de Triumph, a conniving woman tried to lure my buddy into a car to take him away for dancing and fun. When I suggested that my friend leave his wallet with me, she cursed me and her and her male friend dumped us out of their van and sped away.

I know little about French politics or foreign policies, but I do have my own experiences from there to remember. In general, I find the French to be isolationists that prefer to live apart from others. They engage in Foreign policy only if, and when it benefits them. They seem to resent and even detest anyone who is not French, as though France and her people were God�s gift to the world.

Now not all people are rude, arrogant and would certainly have good qualities. I believe many French must accept and even like Americans, but my experiences in Paris didn�t reflect that fact.

Thoughts from someone who didn�t care for the French experience,
Deep

Originally posted by Netchicken

Secondly France is a Euroarabic nation, its sub populations so entrenched in its society that it will follow any anti israel, pro palestianian anti western line that keeps its signifigent moroccan and arabic people happy.

HA HA HA HA HA....Netchicken, you don't know how you right.

And deepwater, I understand you. in 1992/93, I was working in Paris and it was a real nightmare !

Fortunately for the frenchies, the rest of France is not like the " Parisiens". You have to know that in France, there is 2 kind of peoples. The " Parisiens ", who are hating everyones who's not from Paris, and the other frenchies, who are hating you when you're a parisian.

Do I have to say that for them, the " Parisiens" and the other frenchies ( those who aren't " parisiens ") don't like you if you aren't a frenchie ?

But if you are coming from Africa or North-Africa and if you are telling them that you are a muslim who hates the jews & the christians & the whites, they will LOVE YOU man !!!

In fact, there is Paris, after Paris, there is " La France ", and just after " La France ", there is " the rest of the world ", with you, me, BoB88, Netchicken, Thomas Crowne, Simon, the Germans, the Dutch, the Koreans...etc...etc...

[Edited on 6-2-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

For many people, this is an anxious time to travel to a foreign country. However, I was in Paris for ten days over the Christmas/New Year's holiday, and I'm so happy that anxiety didn't keep me home. (Often it keeps me from just going into the next room.) Traveling forces us to see things in a refreshingly different perspective. It's healthy to be in the minority once in a while. It may be somewhat humbling, but, unlike the rich foods, you can't have too much humility.

If you're someone who's panicky about world travel right now, you might benefit from some things I learned on my trip:

If you don't smoke, start now. You might as well. You're going to be inhaling an enormous amount of tar and nicotine over there. It's not just the "City of Lights." It's also the "City of Lighting Up." Forget about "Smoking" and "Non Smoking" sections. Apparently, they have areas that are designated as "Smoking Required." After dinner one night, while my wife was waiting for her coffee, I went outside the restaurant to not have a cigarette.


Link - www.cbsnews.com...

"We refuse to think that war is inevitable," Chirac said

Link - www.cbsnews.com...

Once again why do we need France??


Boomslang

The French are allies to themselves. They will stab you in the back quicker than you can blink. They don't appreciate our help in WWs I/II and our stupidity in helping them with Vietnam.

They made our F-111s flying out of England go around France in the 1980s when we bombed terrorists in Libya.

Today they've traded Libya's thugs for Iraqi thugs...since Iraq has OIL. They have numerous economic deals under the table with Saddam, proof of their lack of morals. They helped get Iraq's buddy, Syria, more importance in the UN as well as Libya. Flat out France puts terrorism on their protected list if they get some deal out of it.

It's just hilarious that France and Germany are lecturing us about morals...

MT69, I think I'm beginning to appreciate you!

Go Rad Dawg,
Deep