How did you decide which religion is correct?

Questions above poster since the thing didn't show up.
1)

Or that people can do evil things whether they believe in gods or not?

How is this ridiculous?

2) Hitler and Stalin did not admit any such thing they kept on about how they were doing what was best. No person truly believes they are doing evil no matter how evil we may believe their actions to be, there is always some justification that works for them and make what they are doing in their eyes good.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Being an avowed agnostic I find the whole question irrelevant.

There is absolutely no way anyone know's 100% for certain that their God, or a God exists and that there is an afterlife until after they die.

As such it is totally irrelevant wasting time on who believes in the right god.

I live my life by a set of moral values that I have set myself including trying my best not to cause unnecessary harm to anyone else.
Of course I fail frequently, I am but human.

I believe that if there is an all knowing, omniescient, omnipotent God then 'he' won't be that conceited that he demands that I worship him and proclaim his divinity at every opportunity.

It is acts and deeds that count in this life, not pompous piety!

I am a Discordian because nothing else fit, and everything else was boring, mopey, and not fun enough.

HAIL ERIS!

Originally posted by audas

What ? Are you trying to say that people who DONT believe in gods are evil?

??? Im sorry totally lost, where did I say that.

By the way I don't follow a monotheistic or Pantheistic belief either so you have really really confused me.

Or that people can do evil things whether they believe in gods or not?

History has proven that last statement of YOURS that you seem to have attributed to me to be more than plainly true.

Either way - ridiculous position to take.

First one is not a position I took or wrote about, as shown, second well is a fact.

Religion and gods are easily understandable and dismissed

No there is a broad generalisation to say the least!

- its that simple, they are a human creation.

Like Humans? a Human creation?

If you need to believe in fictitious fantasies to help you get on with life

What fantasies have I propagated?

How do you know anything about my life to judge if I need such a belief system to "get on with it" or not anyhow?

Have you observed me both having such a Fantasy and not getting on with it, and having one and doing so? Vice Versa???

to provide you with morality and ethical structure as your to completely incompetent to do this on your own,

Excuse me?

Are you judging me... sounds like a lecture from a Monotheistic Basher to say the least... Ive had people knock my door and tell me I need their ethical structure and morality imprints with books and magazines before with very similar tone.... lol... my guidance is my Heart and is it good and loving or not thank you. That is within me and from no outside source, though I may take guidance on how to make it more accurate.

to maintain a sense of direction and community without the need to rely on destructive, oppressive systems of human control

Yep pretty much sums up my life after the age of 13....

- (yes just as nazism was) then that this is your choice.

I am sorry are you placing me in the context of Nazisim because you have made false judgements and criticisms of me with no knowledge of me, and a very blatant knee jerk posting without reading my posts fully first?

It's Ok I understand you seem to have got angry and typed away quickly without seeing the context and sarcasm of my post you replied to.

I forgive you. I am not a Nazi though

But have the decency to acknowledge what you are doing, how wrong it is and that it is not true - but you just need it.

What am I doing?

What is wrong with it?

What is not true?

What do I need?

Stalin and Hitler at least had the decency to admit what they were doing was not in the best interests of many beyond their own kind,

Am I of a different kind to you?

My Kind is humanity....

....the worst thing about religious nutters

Excuse me?

Where?

is that they inflict this evil on the world but then wont eve acknowledge its wrong. Thats the worst part.

I agree totally, they believe they there ego the I is special compared to the rest of us, is a divine plane etc, just like the Socio-paths and psychopaths, all believe themselves "special" or "chosen" to above others.

As I said in an earlier post on this thread... but in a totally different context... all the above roads lead to Rome... but a Dark Rome a Rome of Hell and madness not the Rome I originally alluded to

(I am not meaning or mentioning Christianity/Catholicism in the Rome thing just an allegory)


Kind Regards,

Elf.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by MischeviousElf] to edit wrong quote bb code and spelling

[edit on 26-4-2009 by MischeviousElf]

I decided that no one religion can be correct. From my time on this earth, I've observed one thing. As much as many would like to have you believe.. Nothing is ever black and white, and religion is never an exception.

I observe Deism to an extent, because I see no evidence of God acting in this world.

How do you know which religion is the correct one?

Answer:

Firstly, anyone who is searching for the truth about God will find him, for he will make himself know to those who earnestly search for him. Knock and the door shall be opened. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and you shall receive.

Those who have posted to state that they have not found God are those who are not searching for him. Instead, they are running from him. They abhor God and truth and will so demand proof of Gods existence to anyone who argues against them. For them, there will be no proof. For God does not give in to their demands.

Anyone who is truly searching for God firstly openly accepts that there is a God. They do not demand “proof” because they know that there is a God. As St. Thomas Aquinas stated, God is evident to all people through his creations. In short, no one can look upon the universe and not know that there is a God. Those who deny God are doing so like rebellious children demanding that God explain his actions. They are people who have suffered loss or persecution of some kind or another and demand that God himself make answer for the world that he created. Simply look at the angry childish tone of their postings and you will see that St. Thomas Aquinas is right.

Make no mistake, if Christ were alive today these same people would try to crucify him all over again. They hate God. They deny God so that they can continue to live their life in their deplorable evil desires. They demand to continue in their sinful lives and deny God so that they can continue in their evil ways with knowledge that hatred can often replace guilt. So they feel no guilt for their sins against God. Instead, they hate God and deny God in their refusal to change their ways to follow what God tells them to do.

Truly, Truly, the world so does hate God.

For those who do not hate God then continue searching, knocking, and asking for his help. The truth about God that I know and believe is this. Christ is the only son of God and his church, the Catholic Church is his church on earth. Get a copy of the New American Bible Catholic version and start reading it. If you are truly looking for God, then if you repent of your sins, amend your life, go to the Catholic Church, and begin reading the Bible then my friend to you glorious news. You will find God. For God is never far from those who love him.

reply to post by Freeborn

There is absolutely no way anyone know's 100% for certain that their God, or a God exists and that there is an afterlife until after they die.

That sounds like an absolute statement. How do you know this for sure? I claim to know God 100% through direct experience, so you saying the above statement is complete B.S. to me and I can't even fathom a reality like that.

because I see no evidence of God acting in this world.

that's because the eye can't see itself. God is inherently within all things and all things within God. its a matter of perspectives. there is no wrong perspective, but its the perspective itself that is limited. get rid of perspective all together and there is God

Originally posted by Hot_Wings


For those who do not hate God then continue searching, knocking, and asking for his help. The truth about God that I know and believe is this. Christ is the only son of God and his church, the Catholic Church is his church on earth. Get a copy of the New American Bible Catholic version and start reading it. If you are truly looking for God, then if you repent of your sins, amend your life, go to the Catholic Church, and begin reading the Bible then my friend to you glorious news. You will find God. For God is never far from those who love him.

Do you truly believe that God is found on the pages of a book? I wouldn't encourage people to read the bible.. Because when read sceptically, many people have disproved their own faith in Christianity. The Old Testament is filled with a might makes right father figure, and the New Testament is an account written by liars who did not understand Jewish prophecy.

reply to post by Miraj


Very true,

In the Christian Context there is a Gospel that never got into the New Testament , well many gospels lol, the ones written closer to his life, e.g Thomas, Magdeline(Mary), Judas etc etc and were penned probably from first or second hand sources not hundreds of years later.... and though what you say is true some truth remains,

Of the words of Jesus or Christ when asked by his disciples where to look for him, and to find him after he was gone:

If you want to find me lift a stone I am there.

Ever seen the hundreds of living things, life insects under a stone?, also a place hidden from view?

The following is very true of it though, the next verses

Look in your brothers (all humanity - enemies to) Eye,

I AM THERE

Kind Regards

Elf.



[edit on 26-4-2009 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by Miraj

and the New Testament is an account written by liars who did not understand Jewish prophecy.

Wow!!!! Ok. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I experienced direct Spiritual Enlightenment from strictly following only the New Testament and getting baptised. The "Holy Spirit" that is talked about in there (known as Shekinah in OT) I experienced directly.

It was after these experiences that some of the Gnostic gospels started making sense.

Its surprising that you think that, but its o.k. Arguing is B.S. anyway. I just hope that you get to experience God directly. Reading words over and over again is just reading words.

Source

TextThe root of the word "religion" is usually traced to the Latin religare (re: back, and ligare: to bind), so that the term is associated with "being bound."

Since I prefer to be free. I don't ascribe to any particular religion.
I look for truth wherever I can. Whether it's in Christianity, Taoism, Buddhism, Wicca, Gnosticism, or any of the other belief systems.

The one thing I know is that the quest for the Metaphysical Truths will last a lifetime.

I determined none were verifiably correct and chose None of the Above.

Choosing one is like being in a hallway with many doors and choosing one door and going in and never coming back out. I choose Atheism, which allows me to peek into every door I discover, check things out then go to another door, stay awhile, leave, go back to a door I already visited etc.

Hint- What's behind every door is almost exactly the same.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Miraj

 

and the New Testament is an account written by liars who did not understand Jewish prophecy.

Wow!!!! Ok. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I experienced direct Spiritual Enlightenment from strictly following only the New Testament and getting baptised. The "Holy Spirit" that is talked about in there (known as Shekinah in OT) I experienced directly.

It was after these experiences that some of the Gnostic gospels started making sense.

Its surprising that you think that, but its o.k. Arguing is B.S. anyway. I just hope that you get to experience God directly. Reading words over and over again is just reading words.

Gnostics have more stock in my view because they don't take the easy way out. However I do believe the gospels currently in the bible today were written by liars. I know this much because I've been able to prove that Matthew (or whomever wrote the book of Matthew) applies things to Jesus that were never prophecies, or that were prophecies that had nothing to do with Jesus. Most fundamentalists just played the "I have faith that it must be right" card and tried extremely twisted logic to make me see it their way

reply to post by Gigatronix


I am speaking within the constraints of what I understand of your analogy so please bear with me sir. That is to assume that atheism isn't a door in and of itself, no matter what door a person chooses it taints their views of all the other doors. It's rather like going through one of those doors and coming out into a simular looking but not the same hallway of a different tint. Um did I explain that good enough? And of course some don't bother looking at those others do and some do, you obviously do.
Basically, your choice enhances pre-existing bias's and twists your perception and gives you the results you are talking about as you are more or less looking at the world through the tint of a certain view.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

I am speaking within the constraints of what I understand of your analogy so please bear with me sir. That is to assume that atheism isn't a door in and of itself, no matter what door a person chooses it taints their views of all the other doors. It's rather like going through one of those doors and coming out into a simular looking but not the same hallway of a different tint. Um did I explain that good enough?

And of course some don't bother looking at those others do and some do, you obviously do.
Basically, your choice enhances pre-existing bias's and twists your perception and gives you the results you are talking about as you are more or less looking at the world through the tint of a certain view.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

I get what you mean. Atheism absolutely could be considered a door, especially if you're the fundamentalist radical militant type. I am not one of those. I generally stay in my Atheist room, but if I hear something interesting happening a few doors down, or I get bored, I'll go out and have a look around. In reality, Atheism is like an empty room that you can decorate with whatever ideas and concepts you like.

For instance: I like alot of things that are in the Bible. I'll go in that room, pick up a "Let he who is without sin be the first to cast stones" and take it and put it in my room. I'll head over to Buddhism, grab some Nirvana, stick that in there. Grab some Shamanism, some occult, maybe some quantum physics, arrange em all nice in my room and enjoy for a while.

I like to think of Atheism as clean slate for spirituality. I can look at all beliefs with an open mind, and incorporate what makes sense to me personally. Spirituality and your soul is very important, as is the journey to understanding it and defining it as it pertains to you personally.

Why let someone else do all that for you?

Four blind men surround an elephant.

The one;
- standing at its leg claims "Its a column."
- holding its tails declares, "Its a rope."
- pressing against its side says, "Its a wall."
- holding its tusk asserts, "Its a spear."

Only when you accept the possibility that all of them are correct, can you begin to have understanding.

If you seek the truth, you will find it - because it surrounds us on all sides, even though all those with the truth continue to disagree with each other. On finding truth, you will ask no more questions, and look no further - because surely it is foolish to continue looking when you have found what you seek?

On the other hand, if you seek understanding, then you will never stop asking questions and looking further, and at length things that are beyond truth will begin to reveal themselves to you - you will begin to understand.

Faith is to believe and never question - if everyone had faith in me, I could enslave the world. When you sell your mind to faith, then your fitting compensation is enslavement.

Truth is a poison of the mind - if you find it in you - tear it out, and replace it with doubt.

If I have a religion - it is the religion of seeking understanding, and exposing truth for the fraud that it is.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Amagnon]

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by Gigatronix


Ah but you carry the room with you once you enter it til you no longer believe it. OoOooO!! Better analogy, each room contains a set of glasses that we put on and view the world through and each room contains things that compliment that particular tint of glasses, a label once taken and adhered to taints your perception. And in the end who are we, any of us, to judge the beliefs of others? That generally leads to the bloodshed that splatters the walls of history, judging I mean.
And I can't really agree with atheism being a empty room, it requires the belief that there is no god and that is a stance. Just like the others.
I honestly mean no disrespect and certainly not attempting to attack you I am merely speaking my mind.

[edit on 26-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Amagnon

Well said good sir, Bravo!

My quote pertaining to faith goes as such:

"Faith is the hope that you know everything you need to know"

This is why I avoid labeling anything as truth, as "truth" begets faith, and faith begets ignorance.

How you can tell if a religion is correct is by testing it.
Test it as if you were buying millions of dollars of gold and
you want to make certain it is all pure and not gold-plated turds.
Analyze the heck out of it, disassemble it, scrape it, cut it with the
teeth of experience. But above all go by your own experience.

I was raised Christian and while Christ himself passes a multitude of tests
the various churches are just as corrupt as the Pharisees Christ rebelled
against. The churches also want to be a middleman between you and your
own spirituality.

Several decades ago because I am a professional artist I was taking classes
in Far Eastern Art. Since the history of much pre-20th century art is Christian
the history of art in the East is mostly Buddhist. Therefore I had to study Buddhism to understand the iconography. When I studied what Buddha was saying it rang a bell (gong) with me, sounded like common sense. Then when I put into practice and experienced various practices such as meditation, inner peace, and compassion I found that I was less depressed, a healthier and happier person and had a higher level of awareness. Everything coming directly from Buddha and high Vajrayana Buddhist master lineage holders consistently was true and increased my awareness,
inner peace and happiness quotient.

Buddha says that belief is irrelevant-only go by your experience.
And the above quote about testing it like gold-that is a paraphrase from Buddha. Buddha does not talk about God-because that is only belief.

Buddha talks about your mind-that hate is a poison and only makes you miserable-that checks out-envy and rage are poisons that are forms of mental anquish-that checks out thru experience. Compassion makes you feel better and helps others-that's obvious unless you're a moron. Inner peace allows you to maintain mental clarity-that checks out.

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by Amagnon

 

"Faith is the hope that you know everything you need to know"

This is why I avoid labeling anything as truth, as "truth" begets faith, and faith begets ignorance.

I like your quote on faith, here is another one I think has some merit;

Truth creates belief, belief creates intolerance, intolerance creates violence, violence creates death.

Truth leads to death, why would we ever elevate it to some higher ideal?

I have posted elsewhere on the nature of truth. Truth derived from the world around us is always subjective, because we interpret our senses through our lenses of wisdom, knowledge and experience. Only idea's that arise inside us are not interpreted - so truth can only arise in individuals. However that truth can never be transferred to another - because it must pass through their interpretation - so as soon as we articulate the truth, it is of necessity destroyed.

So, even if you know the truth - you can never share it with another soul.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by Amagnon]