Former Obama supporters, what changed your minds?

reply to post by Common Good

You wanted examples, I gave you examples.

Yes, but he debunked all your Fox News talking point examples...quite well too.


Only thing I would add is on the guantanamo bay issue. Do you remember Obama WAS going to close it and move the prisoners to prisons on US Soil????? Do you remember the hissy fit the Right had about that? Do you remember the hissy fit people here on ATS had about that? But yeah...go ahead an blame Obama...it's all Obama's fault.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Yes, but he debunked all your Fox News talking point examples...quite well too.

By blaming most of it on Bush. When exactly do things start becoming Obama's fault and his problem?

Ya know, at some point Obama has to take responsibility and stop blaming everyone else. He did, regardless of what some may chose to believe gave bank bail outs just as Bush did. Remember the " We have to pass this bill, if we do not the economy will collapse" . Alot of what the right said about the healthcare bill was true. You wont be able to keep your doctor, premiums will go up, rationing will happen, medical providers are leaving the industry, it is going to cost more then claimed because they used accounting tricks. All of this just recently coming out. You have to remember the last 2 years of Bush was a democrat controlled congress, which Obama was part of. What about that "if you make under $250k a year your taxes won't go up one single dime"? That was just a blantant lie. Just my federal income tax alone (not including FICA SSI etc) is going up like 3%...thats more than a single dime. What about the SCHIP bill, almost a dollar extra tax on tobacco products? What about the 1090 forms needed by any small business that makes a purchase of over $600? What about the tax on precious metals? What about the increase in medicare taxes? What about changing the way you are taxed on your healthcare insurance and various other benefits provided by your employer? Obama IS responsible for that. Contrary to what the left says, (and one of the only things I will defend Bush on) his tax breaks applied to anyone paying taxes, look up the facts.

reply to post by Misoir


Here is a word that Americans have been taught to fear: WHY. If one is taught to say, Why?, that implies

questioning (what could be status quo/power structure), which is especially fearful/unwanted for those who are fearful themselves

asking Why? , at a personal or societal level of higher maturity, implies thoughtful thinking resulting in a thoughtful response,

asking Why?, because of the expected thoughtfulness, requires time.

Your response illustrates, when poll results are given that Obama's positive approval rating is decreasing, no one asks
"Why?". From the news and right wing response, the disapproval means that people are just now waking up to Obama going too far being a Socialist, with Socialist programs that will destroy America. Some of us, OTOH, are disappointed that he has not gone far enough!

But, of course, in a world of limited time for active visual media (tv, ex), discussion has to be sandwiched in between commercials, boiled down not just to soundbites but also screen scrolls, or manipulated to quickly give a predetermined impression (even one that might be false--Breitbart's Acorn and Sherrod videos).

And at times, in order to be "fair and balanced" (on any network!), we are subjected to false equivalencies (talk about asymmetrical warfare!), and a nuanced commentator pitted against one whose depth of presentation is shallow.

To sum, Obama disapproval is not necessarily a signal of overreaching, but could also be he has not gone far enough.

The thing was... when Obama spoke in his campaigns many of the things he said in his speeches sounded right to me. The directions he suggested sounded like the right path.

Whereas with Bush the previous years most of his ideas and statements of fear and war and torture all sounded so bad, so wrong, and completely the wrong direction. McCain only wanted to carry them onward with his Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran song with Palin at his side ready to be the first female Hitler.

With Obama, there was no Kool-Aid for me. I was well versed in the truth movement from the previous five or six years. I had read Alex Jones and ATS. I knew the previous election between Kerry and Bush had been two Skull & Bones running for office. I believed that presidents were selected, not elected. I was very skeptical of Obama.

But then I began to listen to Obama's speeches, and it was not the Kool-Aid that pulled me in, it was a tiny hope that he meant what he said. Hope that we really could change. And honestly, that campaign is still the right fight in my opinion. Making healthcare available to everyone American, stopping the torture and rendition, ending the war, having open dialogue with Iran and other countries, to try to work out the issues... These were wise words.

My vote was a vote of hope that he would be true to the wisdom he spoke.

I still think he's a good guy. I just think the opposition to his ideals were more powerful than he anticipated. I also think the opposition spin cycle was set on maximum and surprisingly effective.

I don't know, I guess maybe this thread isn't for me, because I still sound like an Obama supporter. Does sad Obama supporter count?

I'm a supporter of the ideals he expressed in his campaign... and my hope that he would create change has degraded to more of a wish.


[edit on 4-8-2010 by spiritualzombie]

reply to post by Jenna

By blaming most of it on Bush. When exactly do things start becoming Obama's fault and his problem?

What Bush did is never going to become Obama's fault, what Obama does is Obama's fault. However, it has been his problem since day 1 in office.

Bush seriously screwed up this country. Some of the things Obama is doing isn't helping.

The President needs to tell these FOX News Republicans to go shove it up their ass and stop trying to play the bipartisan game. It's obvious that the right is NEVER going to try and help this country, because at this point the right wingers of this country, the conservatives, the neo cons, and the libertarians don't want to help solve any problems in this country, they just want to burn it to the ground.

Obama would do good to read that and understand that the right wing of this country hates absolutely everything in this nation right now.

I can understand if people believe that there isn't a right left paradigm, and up near the top that's probably true, but down here, the American people, there are people on the left, and there are people on the right, and the people on the right have absolutely no intention of doing anything to help this country. In fact, right now they want to see this country crash and burn so badly, just so they can get their people into office, they will do anything including helping destroy this nation to do it.

Originally posted by whatukno
What Bush did is never going to become Obama's fault, what Obama does is Obama's fault. However, it has been his problem since day 1 in office.

Bush seriously screwed up this country. Some of the things Obama is doing isn't helping.

I agree with you on that, but everything Obama does is blamed on Bush. I can't even count the times I've heard or read someone say something along the lines of "Well if Bush hadn't done X, Obama wouldn't have had to do Y." Y isn't fixing it, it's making it worse. You can't spend your way out of debt and throwing money at a problem doesn't make it go away. Those seem to be Obama's solutions to most things, and meanwhile the left doesn't care that it isn't helping because 'at least he's trying'.

The President needs to tell these FOX News Republicans to go shove it up their ass and stop trying to play the bipartisan game.

He also needs to tell the MSNBC/CNN Democrats to do the same. Neither side is helping matters, they're both more concerned with pointing fingers and playing the blame-game.

It's obvious that the right is NEVER going to try and help this country, because at this point the right wingers of this country, the conservatives, the neo cons, and the libertarians don't want to help solve any problems in this country, they just want to burn it to the ground.

You mean kinda like the left wants to do, only they want to do it by spending us into oblivion. Right?

Obama would do good to read that and understand that the right wing of this country hates absolutely everything in this nation right now.

And the left hates absolutely everything in this nation that isn't them, regardless of whether the people they hate are right wing or not.

In fact, right now they want to see this country crash and burn so badly, just so they can get their people into office, they will do anything including helping destroy this nation to do it.

Just like the left wanted while Bush was in office.

It's been almost four years since the Democrats won a majority in both the House and Senate. They have had almost four years to do pretty much whatever they wanted yet things have been getting worse this entire time. It's not a matter of right vs. left. It's a matter of all of the people sitting in Congress contributing to the problem while trying to blame each other. Neither side is blameless when it comes to the state of our country today. To blame one side while giving the other a free pass is disingenuous at best and you, mon ami, are doing exactly what they want you do by playing the blame-game with them and choosing a side.

reply to post by Jenna


Again, because you missed that part apparently, I was not talking about the people on capitol hill as far as the left v right paradigm, I was talking about average ordinary everyday people.

The average ordinary everyday right winger is doing everything possible to make sure that this country does not succeed. The average ordinary TPM going right winger wants this country to fail. They want it to fail so they can vote in who they want. So, they do everything they can do to make sure to blame Obama for absolutely every single thing that has ever happened in the history of the world.

Conservative business owners are sure to not hire people, keep wages low, they are making damn sure this economy does NOT recover. Why? Because they are afraid of tax hikes. It's self defeating all the way around, if people cannot get a job, they will never be able to do what has to be done to actually fix this economy, which is get it moving with people getting jobs.

DC may have a fake left v right paradigm, but the people sure are left v right.

reply to post by whatukno


I didn't miss anything in your post, and my point remains. Everyone in this country is too busy pointing fingers to fix anything, even you. You sit in judgment of anyone who doesn't blame the right and declare them as part of the problem while you offer no solutions yourself. Not all businessmen are republicans but you declare them such. Democrat businessmen get no blame from you for not increasing their hiring because in your mind it's only republicans who aren't hiring right now.

Regardless of whether you're talking about congress or the average joe, they are all playing the blame gamewhile the country crumbles around our ears. You can't blame one half of the country and give the other a free pass when both sides are to blame. Neither side us innocent here and claiming it's all one sides fault simply does not make it so.

1) He didn't go far enough with the HCB...public option should have been a part of it.
2) His "financial reform" doesn't go far enough.
3) His environmental policies are bull# for the most part.

The sad part is, if McPalin would have won, it would be a lot worse given that it was them who opposed most of the necessary changes

Originally posted by redhead57
Former Obama supporters, what changed your minds?

Here is my honest answer.

While I am dissapointed with President Obama on multiple fronts, those dissapointments pale in comparison to the prospect of returning the proudly corrupt and dishonest GOP to power.

And I will also add that those dissapointments have near zero overlap with the GOP rhetoric.

At the end of the day I'd love a better POTUS, but Palin, Bachman, Boehner et al? Literally terrifying. They would make GWB look like Thomas Jefferson.

Originally posted by Misoir
I first supported Obama until the Public Option was dropped.

I told myself that Obama can screw up whatever but as long as he accomplishes these 3 things he will get my vote in 2012.

1. Public Option
2. Immediate Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan by early 2010
3. Ending the Patriot Act

And he failed on all three of them! That's not too much to ask for is it!?

He was elected as the most liberal president since FDR and turned out to be no more liberal than that failed president Jimmy Carter. He made far too many bipartisan efforts to Republicans that weren't going to vote for his legislation anyways.

I completely agree with you. I'm perplexed why he chose to go "bipartisan way" when it was clear that GOP are willing to stall on every occasion and then some. That's just baffled me.

As to the 3 points of failure you listed, you hit the nail on the head. I know that McCain would do better on these, but that's the reason we voted for Obama, and he let us down!

GOP is not the answer, we need the third party in the ballpark.

I supported Ron Paul. When it came to the point that Paul wasn't going anywhere, my choices were McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. I picked what I thought at the time was the lesser of the two evils.

I started to buy into Obama's crap. He gave good speeches. He talked a good game. He got people really believing that he would change things and make a difference. Then he was sworn in.

He has gone against every single thing he preached in his campaign. He swore he would NEVER hire lobbyists into government positions, yet he consistently has. He swore the wars would end, that he would withdraw 90,000 troops from Iraq by August 1, 2010. Sure he may have withdrawn some, but he's put twice as many back in. The bank bailouts, the constant going against the will of the people, Obamacare, etc etc etc. The man has made Bush look good!!! And that is saying something!

If ever there was a president that should be impeached for going against the will of the people, treason, or whatever other reason you can think of, it is Obama. The president, as well as the senate and congress are (supposed to be) elected by the people to represent the people. However they represent their own interests, and we just say "schucks, oh well.. I guess next election we'll teach em a lesson!".

Just like now. Everyone is screaming that the democrats will be run out come November. Umm.. excuse me but the last election we were saying the exact same thing, except it was the republicans who were going to be run out. People need to start realizing that there is NO difference between the two. Neither party has the interest of the American people at heart.

However, I've also come to learn recently that we are all federal slaves anyway (see SS#'s, Merchant Marines, etc). The "United States of America" has been bankrupt since 1933 and controlled by corporations (IRS, Federal Reserve, etc).

We the people need to stand up, stop taking the politicians crap and clean house.

I'll be honest and say that I did vote, and now, no longer support Obama. I'm a moderate and to qualify that I will state that I own a gun and plan on buying more but I also support the core ideas behind nationalized health care.

I believed that we should bring our troops home but since Ron Paul was a long shot, I voted for Obama.

The major issues that really changed my mind are:

1. Not bringing the troops home, now.
   
2. Lack of leadership during the Gulf crisis. Mandatory house arrest of BP executives following investigations, call for citizen volunteers to assist with clean up, and the temporary moving of the White House to New Orleans.
   
3. Allowing BP, a foreign company, to take over any part of public land, prevent media and citizen reporting and continue their list of lies to save face.
   
4. Continuing (not standing in the way of) the erosion of US Citizen privacy and loss of freedoms.
   

That help?

Originally posted by maybereal11

At the end of the day I'd love a better POTUS, but Palin, Bachman, Boehner et al? Literally terrifying. They would make GWB look like Thomas Jefferson.

I agree with you which is why there HAS to be someone out of the political loop so to speak that we can elect.
Bottom line both major parties are full of self important idiots that spend our time and money promoting themselves. Both sides play the same game.

The names you mentioned above fall into the exact same category as Obama and to me he is 'Literally Terrifying'

I honestly feel that if we don't change things in the next 2 elections then we are done. This is our last chance as American citizens to send a message and by that I do not mean voting in Republicans because if they win the majority back they'll take it as a sign that their policies are what the American people want.

I will vote against the incumbent regardless of political party because that is the only way I can personally introduce change in our country.

Originally posted by Anjin


I will vote against the incumbent regardless of political party because that is the only way I can personally introduce change in our country.

The danger here is that blindly voting AGAINST incumbants will simply re-inforce the GOP ranks and power..not change things.

If my advice mattered...I'd combine the attitude of voting against any incumbant that followed thier parties marching orders blindly...check voting records. Google them. If they showed some spark of independance consider re-electing them

Also research who you are voting for, not just against. Where they worked before running for office, who is backing them etc. Otherwise...yes it could be worse, careful of who you vote for.

Research and write down your picks for election day.

At least that is what I do.