Credible UFO Quotes by prominent individuals.

Originally posted by yeti101

I'm afraid Karl 12 your just adding to ufologys credibility problem.

Well I find that rather hysterical.
Out of the 144 quotes that have been posted only 1 has been incorrect.
Maybe, if you had the intellectual honesty to concede that many of the statements have been authenticated then you would consider actually addressing their content ...or at least speculating on the motivations behind them.
I suppose embittered cynicism is to be expected on these boards but just trying to muddy the water with a 'blanket debunk' of all these quotes seems a little like willful ignorance and lazy prejudice to me.

reply to post by karl 12


Yeah Karl how terrible of you!

How could you let us all down like that!?

You know the scene in "12 angry men" when the prosecutor leads the jury by attacking a character witness on their EYESIGHT.

You know you could always ask the prosecutors here who are so obviously working an agenda - why? - god knows ET existence and UFOs are almost a given - just ask 2 in 3 people why they believe this (that's a modest statistic too) that if their EYESIGHT is so good - can they see the other 143 quotes of their peers.

You unbelievers really should stay in a state of blindness, that way when you do get your EYESIGHT back you'll think it was a miracle and won't even have to apologize to the people that do put in the real work of uncovering things you are probably to scared to face anyway. You really are becoming an extinct species.

You skeptics won't have any credibility unless you can do your 'thang' and debunk the 143 other quotes: we are waiting...

Karl 12 THANK YOU for a beautiful collection of reliable sources with quotes - after showing 3 people that were on the fence - this has tipped them over, as they have never seen the amount of 100% eye witness PROOF you have so kindly provided. They all said the same thing "I didn't know there were so many across the board that have had dealings in UFOs and ETs".

hats off

wZn

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow


WZN, thanks for the reply. you're not wrong about some of the quotes being very interesting indeed -they're also made by individuals in far better positions than you or me to gauge whether the UFO subject has any validity or not.


Here are some more quotes/reports

"Around Szolnok many UFO reports have been received from the Ministry of Defense, which obviously and logically means that they know very well where they have to land and what they have to do. It is remarkable indeed that the Hungarian newspapers, in general newspapers everywhere, reject the reports of the authorities."
Gyorgy Keleti, Minister of Defense, Hungary, in article by Attila Lenart entitled "Ask a Question to the Minister of Defense: George Keleti, Are You Afraid of a UFO Invasion?", Nepszava, Budapest, August 18, 1994.





"... no aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories. These objects appear to be driven by an intelligence the way in which they fly. According to reports from scientists and technical personnel, these objects fly in formation and finish manoeuvres that seem to point out that are not completely driven from an automatic equipment. These objects are in incontestable mode the result of long investigations and highly technological and exceptional knowledge."
Rear Admiral Delmer S. Fahrney, head missile testing of the American Navy on January 16, 1957.





"I am not a specialist on UFOs, and, therefore, I can only correlate the data and express my own supposition."
General Igor Maltsev, in the newspaper Rabochaya Tribune for April 19, 2005
General Igor Maltsev reported that he had reports of "more than 100 visual observations" compiled by commanders of several air defense units of the Moscow Military District of a UFO which has been seen in the area of Pereslavl-Zalesskiy in the northeast of Moscow on March 21, 1990.
Maltsev included with his report to the newspaper five testimonials, including a report by a pilot who flew over the object and a report from a ground radar tracking station. The pilot saw only two lights and a dimly perceived silhouette of the object against city lights. The radar station reported a sighting of a rapidly moving, shining object with red lights and another with white lights that followed the first. The report included times, azimuths and distances of the reported objects.





We all know that UFOs are real. All we need to ask is where do they come from."
Captain Edgar D. Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut, 1971.





"I have absolutely no idea where the UFO's come from or how they are operated, but after ten years of research, I know they are something from outside our atmosphere."
Dr. James E. McDonald, Professor of Atmospheric physics, University of Arizona. 1967.





"The UFO incident happened on the morning of March 16, 1967. on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic missile squad and there are five launch control facilities assigned to that particular squadron . and I received a call from my topside security guard and he said that he and some of the guards had been observing some strange lights flying around the site around the launch control facility. I said, you mean UFO? He said, well, he didn’t know what they were but they were lights and were flying around. They were not airplanes; They were not helicopters. They weren’t making any noise [A little later] our missiles started shutting down one by one. By shutting down, I mean they went into a "no-go" condition meaning they could not be launched. These weapons were Minuteman One missiles and were of course nuclear-tipped warhead missiles ... this incident was of extreme concern to SAC headquarters because they couldn’t explain it."
Captain Robert Salas: USAF SAC Missile Launch Officer [1964-1971]





"After retiring from the Air Force I joined the Boeing company and was responsible for accounting for all of the nuclear fleet of Minuteman missiles. In this incident they actually photographed the UFO following the missile as it climbed into space and, shining a beam on it, neutralized the missile. I also learned of a number of incidents which happened, a couple of nuclear weapons sent into space were destroyed by the extraterrestrials. Our government sent a nuclear weapon for explosion on the moon’s surface [And] the ETs destroyed the weapon as it went toward the moon. [Apparently] the idea of any explosion in space by any Earth government was not acceptable to the extraterrestrials, and that has been demonstrated over and over."
Colonel Ross Dedrickson: US Air Force/Atomic Energy Commission





" ... we were testing ballistic missiles that were to deliver nuclear weapons on target ... my duty [was] to supervise the instrumentation photography of every missile that went down in that western test range ... and into the frame came something else. It flew into the frame and shot a beam of light at the warhead. Now, remember, all this stuff was flying at several thousand miles an hour, so this thing fires a beam of light at the warhead, hits it, ... . The warhead tumbles out of space. The object, the points of light that we saw, the warhead and so forth, were traveling through subspace about sixty miles straight up, and they were going somewhere in the neighborhood of eleven to fourteen thousand miles an hour, when this thing caught up to them, flew in, flew around them, and flew back out."
Professor Robert Jacobs: Lt. USAF 1369th Photo Squadron





"I'm not at liberty to discuss the governments knowledge of extraterrestrial UFO's at this time. I am still personally being briefed on the subject"
President Richard M. Nixon





"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter."
Dr. Wernher von Braun, reflecting on the deflection of the US June 2 rocket from orbit in 1959.





"I can assure you the flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth."
President Harry S. Truman - Press conference, Washington DC, April 4, 1950.





"UFOs are real. I myself had an experience of this sort in 1951. It was a yellowish-silver disk with deep red edges, moving at high speed at an altitude of some 500 meters..."
Vicecommodore Oscar Bario. Argentinian Defense.





"At this state of events, and with the evidence available to us, it is hard to deny the existence of flying saucers."
Vicecommodore Dante La Roca. Argentinian Defense.





"I believe in the so-called flying saucer, and it is my understanding that the Air Force will pursue studies on this subject."
Commander Adolfo Alvarez, 1968. Argentinian Defense.

Argentina:

The Seven Official declarations made by the Argentinian Government

Argentinian Military/Government communique:


1962: At 19:20 hrs on May 22, a squadron of fighters in the vicinity of Bahía Blanca's Comandante Espora Naval Base, reports the presence of UFOs along its flight path. The interception lasted 35 minutes. Direct eyewitnesses to this incident were Lt. Rodolfo César Galdós and his student, Roberto Wilkinson. Report No. 02779 causes the first official acknowledgment by an Argentinean government.



1965: Between the months of June and July, a succession of UFO incidents occur in the Antarctic region, some of them producing electromagnetic disturbances, and witnessed by personnel from the British, Chilean and Argentine bases. A phenomenon on July 3rd at the Deception Island Naval Station generates the second official acknowledgment.



1973: On November 2nd, six members of the Comandante Espora Naval Air Base, close to Bahía Blanca, witness the maneuvers of a UFO, immediately producing the third official acknowledgment.



1978: On the evening of February 4 at the La Florida dam in San Luis, six persons report the presence of a UFO and the descent of an occupant from within, leaving ground marks. The Police Precinct of San Luis, through its chief, Lt.Col. Raul Benjamín López, issues a document which constitutes the fourth official acknowledgment.



1978: Toward midnight on July 12, a low-level UFO sighting causes a commotion in the Estación Ramblón region, located between the limits of San Juan and Mendoza. It was witnessed by police officers among many others. The San Juan chief of police, Col. Guillermo Voguel, prepares the fifth official acknowledgment.



1982: In the evening of August 13, a UFO causes a disturbance in the town of Londres, Catamarca, and its flyover produces strong winds and starts a conflagration. A police patrolman attests to the intruder's presence. The provincial police emits the sixth official acknowledgment.



1986: The appearance of a nocturnal UFO and the subsequent discovery of a gigantic indentation on El Pajarillo hill, Córdoba, on January 9th, prompt this city's municipal authorities to issue the seventh and final official acknowledgment

The Argentinean Military's Role in UFO Research

Hi karl 12, great idea, strrd and flggd, to combine all those existing UFO related quotes and sayings in one thread.
It is as a whole a very interesting read.

Originally posted by karl 12

WZN -thanks for the reply,your right that some of the quotes are very interesting indeed and made by people in far better positions than you or I to gauge whether the UFO subject has any validity or not.

But do the quotes have validity, or not? Are they made up, misworded, or misunderstood, and then just repeated and repeated parrot-like over the internet?

For example -- the von Braun quote. My research indicates it's entirely bogus. Anyone interested? What's the use?

Star + flag!

This is really an amazing collection of quotes, many of them unseen on ATS I believe. I must admit though, that like some commenters said, you probably have not verified the credibility and reality of all those quotes, however that would be a totally huge work to do. One way or another, many of those are most probably just true. It is not adding to the credibility problem, this is adding to the credibility, full stop!

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by yeti101
I'm afraid Karl 12 your just adding to ufologys credibility problem.

Well,I find that rather hysterical.
Out of the 144 quotes that have been posted only 1 has been incorrect....

The case for a profound credibility problem has been clinched by this silly response.

In fact, the number of 'incorrect' posts has not been established. Certainly there are at lot more than just one, and most of the others are quotes from people who just heard and believed other people's stories (e.g., Mitchell).

Any intro course to 'techniques of irrational argumentation' will even tell you the name for this gimmick. Please learn more about such pitfalls before getting so darned sincere in your self-misleading.

reply to post by JimOberg
Do you know what I think? I think you could have added a lot more to this thread if you had helped to identify the problems with various of the quotations, rather than just giving Karl 12 a hammering.
You have a profound knowledge of much about this topic. I for one would have welcomed your knowledge, in this thread.



[edit on 2-5-2009 by Sam60]

Originally posted by Sam60
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Do you know what I think? I think you could have added a lot more to this thread if you had helped to identify the problems with various of the quotations, rather than just giving Karl 12 a hammering.
You have a profound knowledge of much about this topic. I for one would have welcomed your knowledge, in this thread.

[edit on 2-5-2009 by Sam60]

Thanks, Sam60.

I'm more interested in seeing how folks can do these kind of checks themselves using existing internet tools. I don't think a battle-of-the-talking-experts is any useful strategy, an endless he-said-she-said back and forth.

How, for example, would somebody use search engines to check on skeptical accounts of the alleged von Braun quotation? Or the Harry Truman alleged quotation? There should be productive strategies for finding opposing interpretations. I don't know them all -- I'm hoping to unleash the curiosity and talents of some ATSers around here.

reply to post by JimOberg
Fair enough, Jim.
I would have to agree with the points you make. It's just that being as tough as you were on the op, I felt that was not condusive to continuing discussion & new postings.
On a brief side note, I found your extensive postings on those NASA-oriented threads extremely interesting & at times, islands of objectivity amongst a sea of obstinate point-making.
As I think about that, perhaps the intensity of the postings against you on those threads contributed to you sparking up a little here.

reply to post by Sam60


I think we can agree that Jim is well versed on outer planet happenings

and is well versed on the inner happenings of the space program.

The fact that he chooses to "ninja post " in only certain threads inspires

me to believe that we are close to something in that thread.

To use a analogy, Hes like a mother over watching her brood, she lets them

do their free will, but when they get too close to something, She'll

"correct" them and Steer them AWAY .

reply to post by Seany
I am well aware of those ideas regarding Jim & I don't agree with them.
But I guess Seany, whatever you think about Jim, without people such as him, ATS would become a lot less interesting.
I would still be very keen to hear from Jim regarding any of the quotations, as per my 1st post. But that does all take time to do, so that might not happen.

reply to post by Sam60


Well my friend , if you are waiting for a straight answer from our friend

You will be waiting a long time.


If There Is A Elephant In The Room , And You Wish To Discuss The Elephant,

Our Mutual Freind Will Have You Discussing The Carpet.

Here's a link to my detailed refutation of the von Braun quotation:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Putting aside the question of a consensus on the conflicting claims, I am more interested in how cross-indexing of related material (especially, refutation material) can be facilitated by new search engines. I really don't have the answer to this, but I hope somebody can come up with useful suggestions.

John Andrews wrote to Ben Rich:



Ben Rich's reply affirming the belief (knowledge?) of both man-made and extra-terrestrial UFOs.



Ben Rich was a handpicked Lockheed Skunkworks director, the father of stealth aircraft. Not many others have his credentials or background with classified aerospace systems.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by yeti101
I'm afraid Karl 12 your just adding to ufologys credibility problem.

Well,I find that rather hysterical.
Out of the 144 quotes that have been posted only 1 has been incorrect....

The case for a profound credibility problem has been clinched by this silly response.

Jim, I noticed you decided to omit this part of the quoted response:

Maybe,if you had the intellectual honesty to concede that many of the statements have been authenticated then you would consider actually addressing their content ..or at least speculating on the motivations behind them.

Without resorting to the rather predictable use of 'emotion enflaming debating tactics' or getting into a futile, circular argument about the difference between agenda based cynicism and sincere, open minded scepticism - I wonder if you could bring yourself to actually comment on some of the other statements?

I realize many folks on either side of the UFO debate are loathe to address certain viewpoints that don't fit snugly with their own preconceptions but to just 'abjectly refuse to acknowledge them' seems to me a little childish - not to mention evasive.

Alternately,you could share your opinion on the content of these interviews or remark upon the disproportionate amount of government documentation on the subject:

Link 1

Link 2


Look foward to your mature, constructive response.

Originally posted by Seany
reply to post by Sam60

 

Well my friend , if you are waiting for a straight answer from our friend

You will be waiting a long time.


If There Is A Elephant In The Room , And You Wish To Discuss The Elephant,

Our Mutual Freind Will Have You Discussing The Carpet.

Yes,theres a few points here which ring true:
www.bibleufo.com...

Originally posted by spacevisitor
Hi karl 12, great idea, strrd and flggd, to combine all those existing UFO related quotes and sayings in one thread.

It is as a whole a very interesting read.

Spacevisitor, thanks for the reply mate- some of the quotes are very intriguing and certainly deserve serious attention.

There are some other interesting statements below including some revealing testimony from these two individuals:


USAF Radar Controller Michael Smith

Chief Federal Aviation Authority Official John Callahan



Other:

Facts Versus Stereotypes

"Stereotypes die hard. The myth among scientists that UFOs are a "nonsense problem" without any substance was firmly established more than 50 years ago and persists until this day.

Among the deeply embedded misconceptions of scientists are:


*UFOs are nothing but vague fleeting lights seen at night,


*No trained or experienced observers have reported truly puzzling UFOs,


*UFOs are prosaic objects or phenomena that are converted into spaceships by "believers,"


*A religious-like "will to believe" in salvation from the outside drives the entire UFO phenomenon,and


*Nothing of substance has been reported that science could investigate even if it wanted to.


These notions all are demonstrably false. They are "psychological road-blocks" that need to be cleared away so that discovery of UFOs can proceed".
Richard Hall

THE SCIENCE OF UFOs

---

MUFON - Myth Versus Fact

Myth: Very few people have really seen a UFO...

Fact: According to a Roper poll conducted in 2002 for the SciFi channel, one in seven Americans say they or someone they know has had an experience involving a UFO...


Myth: Airline pilots never see UFOs, so they must not be real...

Fact: There have been many cases of pilot sightings ever since the 1940s...


Myth: UFOs are only reported by uneducated farmers in places you've never heard of...

Fact: A study by the U.S. Air Force showed that the most puzzling UFO reports came from people who had the best technical backgrounds. They are reported from everyplace where there are people, though fewer are seen from big cities because less of the sky is visible.


Myth:The U. S. Air Force investigated UFOs and concluded there was nothing to them...

Fact: The Air Force had an official UFO investigation from 1948 to 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book), and collected more than 12,500 reports. It claims to have explained all but about 701 of them, but the facts of most of those reports strongly suggest that something important was seen.


Myth:UFOs are only seen by Americans...

Fact: UFOs have been seen wherever there are people. Every continent has had its share, as has almost every country, though local interest plays a role in the apparent level of activity. Wherever there is someone interested in searching out UFO reports, they will be found, but that doesn't mean the investigator lives in a center of activity.


Myth:UFOs have only been seen since 1947...

Fact: There are UFO reports in newspapers and literature dating back to 1865 and even earlier...

MUFON

---

British Detective Constable Gary Heseltine from PRUFOS-´Police report UFO Sightings´Organisation:

"My name is GARY HESELTINE and I am a serving Detective Constable. I launched the PRUFOS POLICE DATABASE in January 2002. It caters for serving and retired police officers to record their respective UFO sightings. Police sightings are listed in two categories - On and Off duty sightings. Since its lauched I have 256 cases dating back to 1901 involving 608 British police officers.

After studying the subject for over thirty years I am totally convinced that a small proportion of UFO sightings are genuine and represent an extraterrestrial presence on the Earth. The media present the subject with a degree of ridicule - this is a total misrepresentation of the KNOWN FACTS about UFOs.

My belief in the extraterrestrial hypothesis is based primarily on:


2000 Military pilot reports

3000 Commercial pilot reports

Hundreds of Radar operator reports

Positive comments made by scientists, astronauts, cosmonauts, astronomers.

Positive comments made by senior military people i.e. Generals, Admirals, Colonels etc.."

PRUFOS

---

On Cynicism Vs Scepticism:

"I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic.
One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer -- who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well. That kind of approach is also pseudo-science. Moreover just being a scientist confers neither necessary expertise nor sufficient knowledge.
Any scientist who has not read a few serious books and articles presenting actual UFO evidence should out of intellectual honesty refrain from making scientific pronouncements. To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing. To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it nonetheless is another. That is not science."
Bernard Haisch, Astrophysicist.

"UFO debunkers do not understand Occam's Razor, and they abuse it regularly. They think they understand it, but they don't.
What it means is that when several hypotheses of varying
complexity can explain a set of observations with equal ability, the first one to be tested should be the one that invokes the fewest number of uncorroborated assumptions. If this simplest
hypothesis is proven incorrect, the next simplest is chosen, and so forth.

But the skeptics forget two parts: the part regarding the test of the simpler hypotheses, and the part regarding explaining all of the observations.
What a debunker will do is mutilate and butcher
the observations until it can be "explained" by one of the simpler hypotheses, which is the inverse
of the proper approach".
Brian Zeiler

SCEPCOP

Cheers.

Lots of people thought that UFO reports could best be explained by alien spaceship visits -- it made sense based on our own primitive space efforts. But we know a lot more about how honest UFO misperceptions are generated, retold, and embellished now then we did in the early years. Throwing around important people's names is an interesting exercise in cataloguing, but hardly evidence.

Now, note that when a specific quotation is raised as to being bogus, responses are usually not constructive. Often there's the stubborn dig-heels-in response, 'Sez YOU!'. Or the response, OK, you found the bad one, that shows all the others are good. But when an ostensibly pre-verified, heavily vetted list is presented as evidence, there shouldn't BE any 'bad ones', after all these years.

The bigger question this raises is, is there any way that tighter quality control standards can be applied to what passes for 'UFO evidence' such as these quotations? Surely the Internet was supposed to make all points of view accessible, rather than facilitate mindless repetitions of the same points of view.

I raise the Harry Truman quotation as an example. There has been some original research calling that entire comment into question. How can that research be located via search engines, so its argumentation and evidence can be considered? I'm not arguing for that conclusion -- I'm advocating developing ways to make such anti-conclusions available for weighing against other claims.

Originally posted by karl 12
Jimmy Carter also mentions in this interview that he does not beleive in aliens visiting Earth yet he is still
at a loss to explain what he witnessed.

According to Grant Cameron's research, and Daniel Sheehan's testimony, Jimmy Carter was given limited disclosure.

During his post election pre-inaugural CIA briefing, President Elect Carter asked Ford Administration DCI Bush for the UFO secrets and was denied because of no NTK. He eventually had some information downgraded to his security clearance through the Library of Congress.

Carter stated in his election campaign he wanted to uncover the govt's UFO secrets, as long as it didn't interfere with national security.

His tune on UFOs changed shortly after coming to office. An ex-president simply won't go there. To publicly say he thought some UFOs are alien space ships, would cross a line. He signed non-disclosure agreements.