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Originally posted by kidflash2008
One must also remember there are other considerations for the government that has extraterrestrial craft:
2. The military does not want to admit what we have as they would be obligated to share any information learned from such technology.
3. With many religious and other belief systems still not open to the idea of extraterrestrials, they may also think we are not psychologically ready. Seventy percent may be ready now, but that leaves thirty percent that aren't ready yet. They may be waiting for ninety percent or better before they disclose any information.
Originally posted by AlienCarnage
The government coverups being talked about, such as roswell for example, were not covering up crashed alien craft, they were covering up secret military craft that had crashed during testing. The coverup was using the UFO story to their advantage and making it look as though this were the actual story being covered up.
2002 SEALED AFFIDAVIT OF WALTER G. HAUT
DATE: December 26, 2002 WITNESS:
Chris Xxxxxx
NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan
(1) My name is Walter G. Haut
(2) I was born on June 2, 1922
(3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203
(4) I am retired.
(5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town.
(6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate.
(7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more.
(8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris.
(9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished.
(10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch.
(11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out."
(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.
(14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies.
(15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive).
(16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again.
(17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office.
(18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence.
(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.
(20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection.
Signed: Walter G. Haut December 26, 2002
Signature witnessed by: Chris Xxxxxxx
Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision
I don't know if you have understanding of how the military mind works but I will let you in on it.
Besides if you look at the discriptions of the roswell crashed vehicles from origional statements, you will see that they fit well with later declassified military vehicles.
Deathbed confessions from something that had happened many years before. I don't know if you have ever been bedside while someone is dying but I have been many times and their perceptions of reality ar very skewed, so any confessions of this type can not be held to be reliable.As far as others that have come forward, again this is years after the fact, and if it is not a confession right after the fact, memories do get distorted, even talking to friends from years past about ordinary things their perception of things is usually differnt than yours. So obviously this is not a reliable source either.
Descriptions? From who? Where? Have you studied this case? I have studied the Roswell case in detail. The military vehicles you speak of weren't even tested in near the crash site until 1952.
There is no denying that after many years pass, that memories can get blurry or skewed, however, in this case the 5 major key players recall almost exactly the same details. There's a very slim chance that 5 individuals could all be hallucinating the same events.
At any rate, the key players I am speaking of all documented these events as they happened and later released them shortly before their deaths. Kinda throws the 'hallucination' argument out the window.
Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision
I used to be a believer in these crahes being of alien in origin, thus I have every book, magazine article, newspaper article, and video, that I could get my hands on. There are many descriptions of the crashed vehicles given in all of these. If you have been following the story like you said you have I shouldn't have to point this out to you.
As far as testing of top secret military planes and equipment, this goes back much farther than 1952, sory but I don't know why you would think otherwise. WWII ended in 1945, buit during the war many top secret Aircraft were tested not far away from here and even after the war, they did not just suddenly start testing in 1952.
There were many discrepencies in there descriptions from original to later released documents. Hardly verbatem, which attributes to the time passing i suppose you would say. Just about everone who promotes these stories as proof, overlooks this. They always quote the testimonies and refuse to see the discrepencies in testimonies. Even when debated about, they still refuse to see the obvious discrepencies, I will look around when i get home tonight to see if I can point this out to you from the source, since I am at work and do not have access to it currently.
July 9, 1947, edition of the Roswell Daily Record
"The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been 12 feet long, [Brazel] felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter. When the debris was gathered up, the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts. Considerable Scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction. No strings or wires were to be found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used.”
The information posted stated that in July 1947 there were two extraterrestrial UFOs that crashed in the state of New Mexico, and they formed the basis for the Roswell incident.
Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision
By the way, there were "TWO' crash sites in Roswell. One was scattered over a farm, the other was were the "bodies" were found. For someone who supposedly knows about this case, you don't seem to have all of your information straight.
Originally posted by AlienCarnage
reply to post by NightVision
I am not derailing your thread,you continue to ask for source information, but you fail to provide your own, your belief in these things is simply not enough, please do provide your own sources as well.
you continue to ask for source information, but you fail to provide your own, your belief in these things is simply not enough, please do provide your own sources as well.
Retired Air Force Lt. Colonel Raymond Madson was the Project Officer for the Air Force's "crash test dummy" program from 1956-1960 at Holloman Air Force Base. The program was used by the Air Force to debunk stories of Roswell alien bodies in their 1997 "Case Closed" report, citing Madson as a key witness. However, Madson, in a recent interview, says the crash dummy explanation was nonsense, part of a coverup, and his personal views on the Roswell case were completely misrepresented by the Air Force. Madson instead believes that an extraterrestrial crash actually happened and that the alien bodies were stored for a period of time at Wright-Patterson AFB. This was based on his service in the early 1950s at Wright-Patterson and speaking to "others who would have been positioned to know" that there was a "very secure facility" at the base where the recovered bodies were stored. His wife was also employed at the base in the early 1950s in the medical laboratory. Madson said she was told by coworkers about child-sized beings "from another world" who had crashed to Earth sometime prior to her employment and brought to the base to be studied. [34]
You state I am derailing this thead, because it questions your beliefs, but you back none of your claims up with hard evidence either. You supplied "testemony" from sources, when I discouted those, with good reasons that are easy to understand, which seems to be your only real case, you ignored it and contiue to ask me to offer proof without supplying any yourself aside from the "testimony". I provide two quotes which you don't happen to agree with so you discount those, even thogh one supports your case.
I have an open mind, as I said I once was a strong supporter of the Roswell incident as an alien crash, but then I started to look at it more objectively and opened myself up to all possibilities, and it just does not add up with it being an alien crash site. There are many other beter stories that are more of a possiblitity, but this one I no longer believe is.
In order to be objective, you must look at the case from all angles, not just a narowminded point of view, that is how you deny ignorance which is the main purpose of this site.